McDonald SCOTUS Decision -- Master Thread

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I love this part...

“Just as they can help homeowners defend their families and property from intruders,” he wrote, “they can help thugs and insurrectionists murder innocent victims."
As if your average citizen would stand a chance defending themselves in a fight against the typical violent thug. No, it's the guns that give thugs the advantage.
 
Quote from kiwiken:
Quote:
Here in New Zealand, we don't have a constitution, and the ownership of firearms is a privilege, not a right. We must obtain a firearms licence before obtaining a firearm. Firearms owners are licenced, firearms are not.
Hey Kiwiken, at least semi auto longarms are legal on your side of the Tasman.

I'd be pretty happy with the 20mm Oerlikon I saw for sale in Christchurch. Or one of the NIB M14's for less than $500 US, or one of the two m60's they had. Anyways, aren't certain self governance rights provided through Treaty of Waitangi, and couldn't firearms be avoided on that basis? My knowledge of NZ law is fairly limited, aside from knowing I want an E-license.
 
A comment and a Q:

Comment, 4/5 decision is scary. That there are 4 of them who would judge against is freakin' scary, and sad.

Q: Obviously, this decision is all good, but what has really changed in Washington? That is, has it actually gotten any easier for people in DC? It's my understanding that they have done what anti gun types always do when they lose, simply ignore the fact that they lost! So they ignore the legal ruling, continue to ignore people their Const. Rights, and bury people in paper work, hoops, etc, effectively preventing gun ownership.

So anyone comment on what has happened in DC since that last ruling? It's my understanding the mayor of Chicago has already indicated he has every intention of (to cut through it BS politico speak) ignoring the ruling because he's not happy with the outcome.

Typical of anti gun types, laws are only worth following when they support your agenda, not so much when they support the spirit and clear intent of the Const.

Thoughts/comments?
 
Q: Obviously, this decision is all good, but what has really changed in Washington? That is, has it actually gotten any easier for people in DC? It's my understanding that they have done what anti gun types always do when they lose, simply ignore the fact that they lost! So they ignore the legal ruling, continue to ignore people their Const. Rights, and bury people in paper work, hoops, etc, effectively preventing gun ownership.

D.C. has gone from a de jure handgun ban, to a de facto gun ban. It will likely take another lawsuit to reduce the burden on a law abiding citizen who wishes to purchase and own a handgun there legally.
 
Yes, we are about to start a long series of lawsuits to try and secure our victories in Heller and McDonald. It ain't gonna be easy and it ain't gonna be pretty. Whoever said "Those who love sausage and the law should never watch either one being made" really hit the nail on the head, and that applies to judicial law as well. Back to the trenches guys and gals, you're gonna get mud on your jeans.
 
This is what gets me about Breyer's approach to law--I can respect a difference of opinion, but in this case he's just making stuff up. I mean, self defense not fundamental to the "founders"? What founders is he talking about??? Not Jefferson. Not Adams. Not Washington. You'll notice he doesn't cite any sources here, not surprisingly.

Right, in the absence of historical evidence Breyer simply makes things up on the spot, and where such evidence can be found in abundance, he repeatedly claims that he can't find any. It's not that he's just plain stupid like Stevens, he's really just more of a shameless liar.
 
Hiya Australian Shooter, and Sebastion the Ibis - yes, you can own military hardware here IF you have an E licence. But you try getting one, unless you are a museum. Try actually shooting something like an Oerlikon and the Armed Offenders Squad will waste your ass before the second round. We have NO firearms "rights" as such here in NZ. To obtain a firearms licence is complicated and extremely intrusive. It's not impossible by any means, but who enjoys a proctoscope?
 
Davis you realize there is two sides to every political position right? Did it occur to you that he has a base too that he has to appease? On the gun issue, it's by far a losing proposition, the country has shifted, but that does not mean he has to follow polls without throwing a bone to the base. I mean all that news of agenda may very well have been planned with no intention of really pursuing it no? There is political calculus in most things and most are also not accidental. Now don't go assuming healthcare is "hugely" unpopular. I mean there is the flip side of the coin too. It is unpopular among those who didn't vote for him yes, and even some independents. But if he didn't do it, he also stood to loose a big part of the base that supports it. I take it that you get your news from fox maybe? Turn on MSNBC and see the other side is just as fervent and "right" as your side. All I am really saying is don't be too sure about statistics you see and what people claim is hugely popular or unpopular because it always depends on which side of the camp is spreading the biased news. In the US we really only have opinion networks, and I dare say we have no true independent news networks without an agenda so take all news with a grain of salt. Sad but true IMO.
Easy on the assumptions there, fella.

I hardly read or watch FOX News and also rarely waste my time with MSNBC. I find both networks to pander to their own bases, spinning the news to fit their core demographic.

I find that Rasmussen has excellent polls that use quality samples and solid methodology. They're also fairly worded and are reasonable reflections of their truth.

Take a look at their site. There's a lot of interesting stuff there without the biased BS that covers most "news" networks.

Rasmussen Reports
 
DangerMouse over at Volokh.com sums up the dissent quite well I think:

But people like Breyer are despicable because in their effort to cut down the Second Amendment, they end up writing idiotic arguments designed to destroy substantive rights. Foolish, stupid, idiotic man. He is pathetic. He is actually making a case to limit substantive rights clearly written into the Constitution because he doesn’t like the outcomes. It reminds me of this:

William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
William Roper: Yes, I’d cut down every law in England to do that!
Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned ’round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man’s laws, not God’s! And if you cut them down, and you’re just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake!
 
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Could we lose when the Federal Court of Appeals rules after McDonald?





Now that SCOTUS remanded the case back to the lower court instead of simply over-turning it, could the lower court really make a bad decision such as saying, "SCOTUS said the 2nd Amendment applies to the states with reasonable restrictions, thus we rule that it is fine with the caveat that there is registration, licensing, fees, yearly training and yearly licensing/registration."


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Now that SCOTUS remanded the case back to the lower court instead of simply over-turning it, could the lower court really make a bad decision such as saying, "SCOTUS said the 2nd Amendment applies to the states with reasonable restrictions, thus we rule that it is fine with the caveat that there is registration, licensing, fees, yearly training and yearly licensing/registration."

As long as it does not have a "chilling effect" all of these could be considered reasonable
 
i may be wrong. but, isnt the question in this case whether or not chicagos law is unconstitutional. the court really does not have to answer more than yes or no on that question.Would the lower courts really say :
"SCOTUS said the 2nd Amendment applies to the states with reasonable restrictions, thus we rule that it is fine with the caveat that there is registration, licensing, fees, yearly training and yearly licensing/registration."
 
Kagan MUST get due scrutiny and be required to give direct answers to simple questions, starting with "Is there a right to self defense? Is it protected by the Constitution? Explain."

Sotomayor was asked direct questions such as this and she said she respected the Heller decision......yet, she voted for total gun bans and said the 2A afforded no private individual the right to self-defense.

So, in essence, she did not respect the Heller decision and, for all intents and purposes, lied during her confirmation hearings.

I see no reason for Kagan to answer any differently. The current makeup of Congress ensures she will be confirmed regardless of her honesty in answering your good question.

Sotomayor got away with not telling the truth, so will Kagan if she so chooses to fool the Congress.

In the end though, I am EXTREMELY happy with the McDonald decision. We finally have the 2A considered a fundamental right by the SCOTUS. To me this is a monumental win.
 
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Could we lose when the Federal Court of Appeals rules after McDonald?





Now that SCOTUS remanded the case back to the lower court instead of simply over-turning it, could the lower court really make a bad decision such as saying, "SCOTUS said the 2nd Amendment applies to the states with reasonable restrictions, thus we rule that it is fine with the caveat that there is registration, licensing, fees, yearly training and yearly licensing/registration."


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While all that would suck for those of us in Free America, still, isn't it better than what they've had there?

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King.
 
OK, a well written and ratified "28th" Amendment will help clean all this up...who wants to take a crack at the first draft? :)
Is that the one that will order all liberals rounded up and shipped off to "re-education" camps?
 
Is that the one that will order all liberals rounded up and shipped off to "re-education" camps?

Try not to confuse so-called "liberals" with our real enemy, hardcore socialists who don't truly believe in individual rights or liberty. Re-education camps sound like something the latter would do if they had the power--well, they partially do, and it's called the education system. :fire: All I think the rest of us need to do is marginalize their whiny little cries for the government to save them by fighting for and exercising our rights and freedoms, and encouraging future generations of Americans to do the same (take your children out of the re-education camps if you can or have to). While I speak in generic terms, I think that the RKBA is one of the most important--if not ultimately THE most important--of these rights.
 
A couple of decisions from SCOTUS in the wake of McDonald, one expected and the other caught me by surprise, but in retrospect it could have been predicted...

First the easy one. SCOTUS got around to finally accepting cert from the NRA on its petition from the same decision reversed in McDonald (the NRA petition was in limbo, neither accepted or rejected by SCOTUS even though they accepted Gura's petition). SCOTUS reversed and remanded in ligh of McDonald.

Now the one that I had forgotten about...

Supreme Court Case # 08-1592

MALONEY, JAMES M. V. RICE, KATHLEEN A.
The petition for a writ of certiorari is granted. The
judgment is vacated, and the case is remanded to the United
States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit for further
consideration in light of McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. ___

That is Sotomayor's Nunchuck case. The Court noted that Sotomayor took no part in the decision.:D
 
Now that SCOTUS remanded the case back to the lower court instead of simply over-turning it, could the lower court really make a bad decision such as saying, "SCOTUS said the 2nd Amendment applies to the states with reasonable restrictions, thus we rule that it is fine with the caveat that there is registration, licensing, fees, yearly training and yearly licensing/registration."

The 7th Circuit does not have the power to do that. The licensing and registration schemes must originate from the City of Chicago, which they undoubtedly will in the near future, followed by a challenge to same.... which may then end up in the courts.
 
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