• You are using the old High Contrast theme. We have installed a new dark theme for you, called UI.X. This will work better with the new upgrade of our software. You can select it at the bottom of any page.

Measuring powder

Status
Not open for further replies.
Reno380

Reno380

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
85
Location
Florida
I am a new member and a complete newbie in reloading so I am trying to get info on reloading my own ammo. I want to start with 9mm just for target practice for now. I do not have a speedloader or any loader as of yet. I think I will get a entry level Lee 90254 loader first, that way if I don't like loading or just find it is not for me, no great loss, else I may love it and go all in. One of the biggest questions I have is, since everyone says don't trust the measure cup that comes with the kit, and I understand there are different grains, 115,145, etc.., if I use a scale to measure black powder, what is the weight for different grains? If I can be pointed in the right direction I'll figure it out.
Thanks! Reno
 
Are you sure you want to reload 9mm with Black Powder? That would not be typical, especially as a beginner project.
It sounds like you may be confused between Black Powder and Smokeless Powder.
Either way, Grains is a unit of measure e.g., a 115 Grain bullet weighs 115 Grains
there are 7000 Grains in a Pound.
When reloading with Smokeless Powder, being off by even a grain or 2 can be a major problem. You should only follow established recipes using the specific powder type, load and components.

You are probably better off in the Handloading and Reloading forum...
 
Last edited:
Old Lee, but gives an idea of the correct powders to use. 20170708_090329.png Some of the old powders are no longer available.

Use the data that comes with your new Classic loader.
 
Reno380,

Reloaders use flammable/explosive materials. I am uncomfortable trying to coach a newbie online.

If you do not know an experienced reloader who can be your teacher in person, spend some time reading reloading manuals for the cartridges you expect to use. Black powder, black powder substitutes, and smokeless powders are very different from each other and require differing techniques for measuring and storage. It's OK to begin economically as long as you do it safely for your cartridge and powder of choice.
 
To add a further bit of data: Some people actually confuse the word grains as pertaining to the "particle's" of powder them selves. As pointed out "grains" is a unit of weight, as weighing an amount of powder on a scale, or amount by "volume" as determined by filling a graduated measure with powder.

"Kernels" is the word used to refer to the particles of powder.

Gun powder is a reference to" Smokeless" Powder which comes in a myriad of variations, brands and application of use. Black Powder is basically the same regardless of Brand, meaning composition and granulation, with a couple of black powder subs thrown in for good measure. Pryodex being the most common and widely used.

My suggestion,before even attempting to put together a cartridge, avail your self of the "net" and research, research, research.
 
Yes smokeless powder is what I should have wrote, my mistake. I asked about the weight because the videos I have watched all said not to trust the scoop that comes with the loader and they place the scoop of smokeless powder in a tray that allows ease of use of pouring it into the casing, then that is placed on a scale, some use a digital scale others use a lee scale that is mechanical but none ever said what the measurement was, I went to the library and checked out a book on this as well, please remember I do not have a loader as of yet, getting info first, then if still interested will start by entry level kit and go from there. I found 2 local shops that do reloads and will answer questions also, but if kit has these units of measure then I should have no worries. I plan on buying the book: Modern Reloading 2nd Edition sold by Lee, seems informative. I think I will get a hand auto prime kit too, I don't trust the way the kit has you set the primer. I still am not sold on doing this, but I am getting knowledge on ammo I never knew before, and remember, if I actually do try this, it will be only target ammo, not home defense, until I get comfortable enough reloading at least. Is anyone here on this forum from Florida? Close to the Zephyrhills/Tampa area? Maybe we could setup a meeting to go over things?
Thanks everyone, Reno
 
I use one of the Lee scoops for my plinking ammo. I took a scoop that was slightly too big, filed it down a little at a time until it dumped exactly what I wanted according to my beam scale. I use an index card to slice over the top, to get a consistent volume each time.

I have heard that a lot of people have made great ammunition with the Lee Loaders, so I am definitely not knocking it. If smacking them with a hammer doesn't suit you, for a little bit more investment, you might want to look at this, and dies for each caliber, for just starting out.

https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Ca...id=1499525475&sr=8-2&keywords=lee+hand+loader

For (again) a little more, I started (and, a year later, continue exclusively) with, this:

https://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precisio...499525658&sr=8-1&keywords=lee+breech+lock+kit
 
As mentioned above research research research first
go to any gun store or bookstore or online
Buy a reloading manual (Hogdon, lee. or others) look up the round you want to reload. then read what grains ( powder) to use and the brand and formulation ( unique, ball, etc it may be a numerical formulation such as 4131 (example only).
Buy a small digital scale, simpler for a novice. set it to weigh grains.
use the scoop pour a scoop full on the scale and see if it is the same as the scoop size.
Not very likely the scoops will be off too much liability.
fill the scoop full. then use a knife edge to scrape flat. that is an accurate way to measure the scoop capacity.
if in doubt use another brand scoop.

Modern powder is more critical to be accurate than black powder. a couple grains more or less of Black Powder or a black powder substitute won't be as dangerous or devastating as modern.
also NEVER MIX POWDERS OF ANY KIND
 
The Lee mallet loader, the old Lyman tong tool, and the other hand tools are really laborious ways to load ammo.
They will get the job done if you are very short on money or space; but are very slow.
I started with the W.H. English Pak Tool but within a few months I had an RCBS press on a stand that I could put in the corner out of the way when not in use. So your idea of an expendable cheap loader to test your interest could work if it doesn't discourage you by its slow progress.

The Lee dippers are usable powder measures, I did a fair amount of .38 Special and rifle ammo with them before I got a measure and scale.
Technique is important. Lee will tell you to scoop it full and level it with a sideways shake. You can also scrape it level but the amount will not be quite the same. All the Lee measures I have seen whether dipper or disk, will throw light. A manufacturing tolerance all minus is a safety margin. You might have to do some tinkering to get a dipped load that will run an automatic pistol.
 
My first hand loads were black powder 45-70 using the Lyman 310 "nutcracker" hand tool. My Lee Classic Turret press was a huge game changer and the kit came with everything needed except the dies. It even has a decent reloading manual. It's a great investment if you shoot much.
 
Reno380 said:
Yes smokeless powder is what I should have wrote, my mistake. I asked about the weight because the videos I have watched all said not to trust the scoop that comes with the loader and they place the scoop of smokeless powder in a tray that allows ease of use of pouring it into the casing, then that is placed on a scale, some use a digital scale others use a lee scale that is mechanical but none ever said what the measurement was, I went to the library and checked out a book on this as well, please remember I do not have a loader as of yet, getting info first, then if still interested will start by entry level kit and go from there. I found 2 local shops that do reloads and will answer questions also, but if kit has these units of measure then I should have no worries. I plan on buying the book: Modern Reloading 2nd Edition sold by Lee, seems informative. I think I will get a hand auto prime kit too, I don't trust the way the kit has you set the primer. I still am not sold on doing this, but I am getting knowledge on ammo I never knew before, and remember, if I actually do try this, it will be only target ammo, not home defense, until I get comfortable enough reloading at least. Is anyone here on this forum from Florida? Close to the Zephyrhills/Tampa area? Maybe we could setup a meeting to go over things?
Thanks everyone, Reno
Click to expand...

Loading with the Lee Whack-a-Mole is painfully slow...

Buy the cheapest Lee PRESS (not whack-a-mole) about $40:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/807734/lee-breech-lock-reloader-single-stage-press
A set of Lee dies that comes with a scoop:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/807734/lee-breech-lock-reloader-single-stage-press
And/or a scoop set:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/943305/lee-improved-powder-measure-kit
You can get a Lee Ram Prime Unit for the press or a hand primer.
Check ebay for used stuff that will be cheaper, lots of Lee stuff over there.
Bolt the press to a 2ft pc. of 2x6 or 2x8, clamp it to a counter top or table and have at it.
:D
 
The Lee "whack-a-mole" loader might be useful for an exotic hunting round where a commercially loaded cartridge costs $1 or more and you might shoot 10 shots in a season, but for 9mm, where you shoot 200 in a session and cheap ammo is $10/50, it will be a very laborious task to load up 200 rounds. Yes, you'll save money but with that system, it will take a very long time to load up ammo that will be shot up quickly. If you cast your own bullets, you can get the cost down to $3/50. If you use commercial bullets, $7/50

Example:
Loading 9mm on a progressive press takes 15 minutes to load 100 rounds (one tray full of primers).
On a single stage press, 100 rounds would take me about an hour.
With the Lee loader, you might be able to do it in 1.5-2 hours if you can optimize the process (assembly line reloading rather than doing one cartridge at a time).

As for the scoop,
Both progressive and single stage loading usually rely on volumetric measurement in place of weight measurement so if the scoop drops the correct amount of powder, you are good to go. You really must have a scale to verify your powder drops. If you insist on a scoop, you can take a 9mm case, solder a brass rod to it and file it down until a scoop to the brim drops the desired powder for the load you want. Again, not a great method, but cheap.
 
Thats what I have been trying to understand, I am slowly grasping it, it is how much smokeless powder to a load? Example I buy new 9mm brass casings and brass fmj bullets 115gr, is the powder fill the same on all 9mm loads or grain specific? I guess I am having trouble with the scoop of powder because I have never seen the scoops before and any video or online article does not really talk about it, just as explained here earlier by DD4lifeusmc to scrape with knife or index card or similar to level scoop, but then others say should always weigh it. So maybe the best way to ask\say this is what is your amount you find is the best that works for you? I am green as green comes at this, maybe that will turn the light on for me, or at least a starting point. I found the "whack a bullet" press for $15 $13 ship, and found another that said if I did not want it they would gladly give me $40 for it, so not a bad investment, I did see the hand press, but wanted to make sure if this is for me before investing to much, but must say, if I really do get into this like everyone here, the http://go.thehighroad.org/?id=58513...php?threads/exploded-diagrams.290884/&xtz=240 looks like the way I would upgrade to.

Reno
 
Reno380. You don't mention how much you want to spend. But if you shop carefully you can get a nice basic setup as follows:
Lee 9mm dies $43.99 (MidWayUSA's regular price
Harbor Freight 6" Calipers $17.99 before 20% off coupons they have all the time
Harbor Freight Digital Pocket Scale $14.99 (before discounts)
Lee Breech Lock Reloader Single State Press $37.99 (MidwayUSA)
Lee (handheld) Auto Prime $20.99 (MidwayUSA)
Lee Modern Reloading 2nd Edition $19.00
=============================
total $154.95

This is the barebones cheapest setup you can put together and get going. You might be able to do better price wise if you shop around and catch sales. But it should give you an idea of what things cost if you ordered everything today.

If you went the kit route Midway has the Lee Challenger kit for $130.99 but you still need to add the dies so you'd be just under $175.

This assumes you don't tumble your brass or use an ultrasonic. I've gone this route to start and use a cleaning solution then let dry over night.

I post this to give you an idea what bare bones setups would cost if you get decent gear that is a step up from the Lee Loader. Personally I'd suggest going with decent single state press so you can learn to reload properly, and have fun doing it. If you don't, you'll find reloading a hassle and it won't be worth the effort.

FYI, is started with a similar setup (I did get a Hornaday scale instead of the HF one but it seems that they're all China Inc) but used a Lee Hand press. After using that for a bit, I realized the Lee Turret was a better route for me. I still use the hand press to decap, so it wasn't wasted, and it allows me to do part of the process while relaxing.

Anyway, my point is you can decent gear that's inexpensive the will work well. And if you don't like it. You shouldn't take a huge hit if you decide to sell it.

Oh and it's HIGHLY recommended that you get more than one manual. I only recommended one to show bare bones. The powder companies will send you ones for their products if you got to their websites and you can download their load data and print it too.
 
Reno380 said:
is the powder fill the same on all 9mm loads or grain specific? I guess I am having trouble with the scoop of powder because I have never seen the scoops
Click to expand...
Weights of powder charges vary GREATLY, depending on bullet weight and powder used. You measure powder by WEIGHT, whereas you scoop powder by VOLUME. Lee dies come with data, giving cross references from powder weight to the volume of scoop, but in my experience, these HAVE to be verified.

When I first got started, I was told repeatedly to buy a manual, and read study the first half. There is a wealth of knowledge that will answer many of the concerns you may have. Don't think I am telling you "stop bugging us and go read", on the contrary, the guys here are great, and eager to help. But a good manual will be invaluable for future reference, as well as illustrating the points made here. I have Lyman's 49th, and it helped immensely.
 
Last edited:
If you want to start out with minimal expense and no bench, I would go for the lee hand press:
https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/6...ZOqiR9-zrUKhuoBHlxyZmbtbWDwpT70shGxoCvdrw_wcB
The kit takes standard dies, and has a pretty good priming system in it. I loaded 400 30-06 rounds on it in the living room. Definitely will strengthen your pecs. 9mm is not bad at all.

Other than that change, Hokie's list is golden. If you have room for a bench, the press he specified is much more convenient and faster to use.
 
I weigh every charge on an electronic scale. I know that is slow and labor intensive. But my results are accurate and on the money on every shot . No surprises. I'm retired so I have lots of time. I have found this to be the best way to measure powder accurately. Very happy with my results.
 
Maxhavoc thanks for the complement.
OP can also get a 2x6 or 2x8 and mount the press to it. Then use a workmate or other similar portable workbench when they reload. When they're done, pull the press off, fold and put away in a closet. It's not as portable as the hand press but it would be more enjoyable for a beginner.

That said, I like the hand press and use it all the time. I think it's a great tool to have in your "bag of tricks". But it's a little frustrating if you're going to load large volumes.
 
Reno 380 wrote:
I asked about the weight because the videos I have watched all said not to trust the scoop that comes with the loader...
Click to expand...

To properly develop a load, you need to first get a reloading manual and thoroughly read the section on "how to reload". To properly develop a load you need a beam balance or electronic scale capable of weighing charges in increments of 1/10 grain because the difference between the starting load and the maximum load depends on the powder but can be as narrow a range as 0.5 grain.

Once you get a load that works, you can begin to "throw" powder by volume using a powder measure or scoop. The scoops measure powder by volume and not weight, but this is exactly how most powder measures work so there's nothing wrong with measuring powder by volume.
 
Reno380 said:
Thats what I have been trying to understand, I am slowly grasping it, it is how much smokeless powder to a load? Example I buy new 9mm brass casings and brass fmj bullets 115gr, is the powder fill the same on all 9mm loads or grain specific? I guess I am having trouble with the scoop of powder because I have never seen the scoops before and any video or online article does not really talk about it, just as explained here earlier by DD4lifeusmc to scrape with knife or index card or similar to level scoop, but then others say should always weigh it. So maybe the best way to ask\say this is what is your amount you find is the best that works for you? I am green as green comes at this, maybe that will turn the light on for me, or at least a starting point. I found the "whack a bullet" press for $15 $13 ship, and found another that said if I did not want it they would gladly give me $40 for it, so not a bad investment, I did see the hand press, but wanted to make sure if this is for me before investing to much, but must say, if I really do get into this like everyone here, the http://go.thehighroad.org/?id=58513X1360171&site=thehighroad.org&xs=1&isjs=1&url=https://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-Breech-Lock-Challenger/dp/B003ISVWC6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499525658&sr=8-1&keywords=lee+breech+lock+kit&xguid=a20055f2814a74bc83a4cae6d0a94b6b&xuuid=e74783778327b94507f65d76b2cb7762&xsessid=fbe11e80823bff52eff8b162b358c8e0&xcreo=0&xed=0&sref=https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/measuring-powder.823667/#post-10593968&pref=https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/exploded-diagrams.290884/&xtz=240 looks like the way I would upgrade to.
Reno
Click to expand...
You'll get a chart with the scoop set that lists the most common powders, and what each (volume) scoop will be in powder weight of that powder...easy peesy to pick a scoop/weight to load, based in data listed in any reloading manual for the caliber/bullet/powder you are loading.
Loader's have been doing it this way for years, without any surprises...unless the wrong scoop is being used.
That chart might be shown in the scoop set Midway listings I posted above.
I don't see the need to have a scale to verify anything unless you plan to use the wrong scoop for the powder/weight you want to load...double triple check your scoop choice and put the rest of the scoops away somewhere:thumbup:
You won't be "developing" a load just starting out, but rather looking to produce ammo that functions (passes the plunk test), any scoop filing/fine tuning will come much later in your reloading journey.
Acquiring all the other needed equipment you'll need to further "develop" your reloads/reloading skills are not needed to dip your toe into the reloading science to see if it's something that interests you.
Know that most reloaders start out with saving money as their goal but that never seems to happen, with most just shooting more.
This guy has vids on everything reloading, on every brand equipment made:
http://ultimatereloader.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/gavintoobe/videos
:D
Edit: the Lee hand press operates much like a thigh master :uhoh:
 
Last edited:
Hokie_PhD said:
Harbor Freight 6" Calipers $17.99 before 20% off coupons they have all the time
Click to expand...
They used to be good, but the quality is way down. Cheap with a $9.99 coupon though. They work.

This one at $22.98 is great, but currently unavailable.
This one at $26.95 free shipping is good as well (No auto on). I can read the above one better.

The dippers are fine, but you must have a scale to verify what they throw. You cannot go by charts showing what they throw. People use cartridge cases to make home made ones to throw exactly what weight they need.
index.php


The Lee Loader will work but is a lot of work, think stone age, and will get tiresome quickly if you load much.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/121744/lee-challenger-breech-lock-single-stage-press-kit



Lot's of online data to use on the powder companies websites. Follow it. Read whatever reloading manual you buy three times through, then come ask more questions. They'll be educated questions then, as you'll have a great idea of what you are doing and want.
 

Attachments

  • Powder Scoop - Modded .32 Case Pic 1.JPG
    Powder Scoop - Modded .32 Case Pic 1.JPG
    27.1 KB · Views: 230
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

A
  • Locked
Measuring Powder
Replies
18
Views
874
Arkansas Paul
Arkansas Paul
V
  • Locked
hard time measuring powder
2
Replies
36
Views
976
jcwit
J
K
  • Locked
Confused about weighing powder
2
Replies
44
Views
3K
Rollbar
R
G
  • Locked
powder measure
Replies
1
Views
353
lee n. field
L
M
  • Locked
Powder Measurer
Replies
6
Views
363
jcwit
J
Back
Top