Medical emergencies and firearms?

[Josey]

I am a diabetic. A friend who is also one is currently hospitalzed. Blood sugar dropped to the bottom on him. It started my mind working. What if? How would you handle a medical emergency while you were armed? CCW or range trip. We have bad backs, diabetics, asthmatics and other health problems. We could have a cardiac, TIA or CVA. What are your thoughts and comments?

 

[c_yeager]

Just go to the hospital. They wouldnt be the first patient to come in while carrying. It's common enough that every hospital in the country probably has a policy dealing with it. Ours is that patients carrying weapons have the option of placing it in the trunk of their car or surrendering it to security to be placed in their safe or simply give it to a friend. It doesnt really even raise eyebrows around here in the liberal mecca of Seattle. Just be upfront about it.

 

[XLMiguel]

Good thread. I understand the hospital thing, but what do you do if you're in a motor vehicle accident or something similar?

Let's heard from some of the THR's paramedics/EMTs and street cops with recommendations on how to deal with this issue. Is it fair/reasonable to ask the first responder to secure your sidearm? How would it be handled and how do you get it back when you're healthy again? TIA.

 

[FPrice]

Mike in VA...

"but what do you do if you're in a motor vehicle accident or something similar?"

Good question. And one people should think about. I have and my solution is, if I am conscious and coherent that I would attempt to inform the first first-responder on the scene (cop, fireman, EMT) that I am carrying and exactly where. If I am unconscious/uncoherent, they are unfortunately on their own to discover that I am armed.

The problem in an accident is whether you will be able to think clearly enough to inform the person of your condition.

 

[chrisb507]

I'm a type I diabetic as well. While I can't provide any feedback on a CCW and a medical emergency, I can offer this advice: Always carry something--lifesavers, orange juice, a candy bar--to quickly give your blood sugar a boost if it's dropping. I don't go to the range without a roll of lifesavers in my pocket, and I usually check my blood sugar before going in. (You may already do this...and Type II diabetics may have slightly different issues due to their medication.)

Dropping blood sugar can also affect the way your brain works. When mine goes too low, I sometimes can't follow a thought as well or can't think as clearly as I should. I don't want to be handling a firearm in that condition. I'll even keep my blood sugar up a bit in situations where I can't afford it going too low...

 

[El Tejon]

Someone tried to overrun me in '95. I was "T-boned" in the driver's side door by a kid in a pick up truck. I woke up hanging from the seat belt in the passenger seat.

Apparently the deputy Sheriff took my pistol as the EMTs were giving me the once over twice. After I asked for a beer IV and asked the female EMT for her phone number, they knew I was fine. The deputy reached into his scout car and gave me back the pistol.

I didn't have a choice as I was busy watching the pretty birds circling my head, but if I did, I would ask the copper or EMT to hold on to it. If they refuse, tell the nurse.

The wierd thing was (well, normal for Indiana maybe) is that the deputy never asked me for my little pink card. Just gave me back the pistol and asked if I was O.K. enough to sign the crash report. Maybe he was able to pick it up on his `puter then?

 

[SLCDave]

I remember reading somewhere that it's not an uncommon thing for EMT's and other first responders to discover what you've concealed, and they usually have policies in regards to securing it until you are in a position to get it back. I imagine they run across this type of thing all the time.

 

[RadikalRednek]

As a paramedic, I would secure the weapon myself until law enforcement arrived and then turn it over to them. Where I work, there would be no problem geting it back. Some diabetics can be pretty onery when their blood sugar bottoms out. (not that they mean to be)

 

[The_Antibubba]

Childhood training is hard to break

I'm not sure that weapon security would be my first thought. My first thought would be: Thank God I'm wearing clean underwear!!!

 

[Bob F.]

As a former medic: no problem. I'll clear it a pass it on to LE if they show up. Otherwise hang onto it until you or your family comes looking for it.
As ER nurse at former employer: depends on who knows--policy anal retentive! most of ER staff pretty cool. Hope the cops show up quick so I can give it to them--Hospital Security at high risk for ND. At last ER: no biggie.

Stay safe.
Bob

 

[XLMiguel]

Thanks, I feel better now. I have a VA CHP, so I'm 'legal', I just didn't want anyone freaking out or making a big deal out of an unfortunate situation.

 

[tommytrauma]

Good question. And one people should think about. I have and my solution is, if I am conscious and coherent that I would attempt to inform the first first-responder on the scene (cop, fireman, EMT) that I am carrying and exactly where. If I am unconscious/uncoherent, they are unfortunately on their own to discover that I am armed.

FPrice, thank you. I always take it as a courtesy when a patient tells me such things.

It's simply not a huge deal for first responders. If a Patient can't tell us, we'll find it during a secondary survey soon enough. Personally, if a cops not around, I safe it and chuck it in the locking drawer that we keep our narcs in. That is if the Patient's altered. If they're alert and oriented, I leave it be and talk guns with 'em.

 

[444]

If you are a diabetic with low blood suger, I will leave the gun right where it is, treat you and wish you a good day.
If you are going to the hospital, I advise you to have someone meet you at the hospital and take custody of the gun. If that isn't possible, I will take the gun, clear it leaving the action open and hospital security will lock it up with your belongings.
I can't keep it for you. This would put me in a situation contrary to our rules and regs. If I knew you personally, then maybe. But otherwise there is always the chance that something could come up about it.

 

[mvpel]

This is the main thing to worry about should one decide to carry concealed in a generally no-issue state such as Illinois, Kansas, California, or Massachusetts.

 

[litman252]

tommytrauma,
How does it happen in this non-issiueing Doylisc state????
Safe to assume LE's
Tony

 

[Jim March]

I gave first aid to a guy suffering from a full-blown epileptic seizure recently. During the first stages, he was completely "mentally gone" and physically just curled up and shaking...all I could do was make sure his head didn't slam into the sidewalk anymore .

On coming out he got combative with EMTs but in a..."mentally disorganized" fashion. He had nowhere near the mental or physical coordination to pull or use a weapon of any sort, nor was he a significant threat even if he'd been younger or stronger.

If he was any indication, I would say epileptics are compatible with CCW, despite what most folks would think.

I don't know enough about diabetic "crash states" to comment, other than that I don't recall that anger/assault is very often part of the mix.

 

[Josey]

Sorry Jim, anger IS a part of diabetic emergencies. I can tell you that one of the wildest pursuits that I was ever involved in as a LEO was a diabetic. His license was history, he was legally blind and had multiple moving violations. He was angry when he was crashed. He had to be segregated at the jail. They finally got him into a mental facility. I saw him in court. The guy was a totally different person.

 

[c_yeager]

I lot of diabetics have a reaction similar to intoxication when they "crash". It varies from person to person of course but, in some people it can result in belligerance and violence. It really depends on the person though.

 

[Jim March]

Huh. Well that ain't good . Like I said, don't know enough about diabetic crash states.

Keep some sugar around I guess .

Was that epileptic episode I saw par for the course? In that case, had the guy been CCWing, I don't think it would have made any diff whatsoever.

 

[Glock-A-Roo]

I don't know enough about diabetic "crash states" to comment, other than that I don't recall that anger/assault is very often part of the mix.

Jim, I'm just a FNG in the EMS world. But I have been told by many experienced medics that low-sugar diabetics are some of the most combative patients they've ever had to deal with. One lady medic told me that she's "only" had a patient point a gun at her 5 times... but every time it was a diabetic whose sugar had dropped out. A guy from our church is diabetic and his wife says that when he crashes out, he is a monster.

Beware.

 

[444]

I have run these type of diabetic calls thousands of times.
Really, thousands: it is a very common call. I would say that I average at least one a week for the last 20+years. I can remember right off the top of my head having three or more in one day. There are some people who live in my response area that I have run on a half dozen times or more. There are people that I know their name, medical history, what medications they take and the names of their families because they are brittle diabetics and I have been there so many times. I guarnetee that I have given GALLONS of D50 and Glucogon in the field.
I have never had one really get violent. Yeah I have wrestled many of them. Had to physically restrain many of them in order to get an IV. But I have never had one produce a knife, or gun, or take a swing at me. Maybe I have just been lucky, then I have been lucky for a long time.

 

[Kurt S.]

I would inform the first responder that I was carrying. I think it is a safety issue.

It's not so bad for y'all IWB or ankle carry guys, they'll probably figure it out soon enough; but I mostly carry a .32 Guardian (I know, I know), a DAO semi, R front pocket or R rear pocket. When I'm not carrying that, I often carry a Taurus 85CH Ultra Light (again I know, I know) R front. Even with a pocket holster, an accident could happen while somebody's digging around for ID, cutting pants away, whatever. I don't believe having a busted head or leg or a messed-up heart would be made any better by having a 125 grain Gold Dot in my thigh. And they'd likely have trouble taking care of me if one of them had the same embedded in a wrist bone.