Mexican style carry legal?

[rrruuunnn]

I think I recall reading somewhere that some states do not allow mexican style carry w/ chl? Is Mexican style carry legal in Texas for license holders?

 

[sarduy]

i'm new to this style... how's a mexican style carry?

 

[TexasRifleman]

Is Mexican style carry legal in Texas for license holders?

Legal: Yes. Until the gun falls out of your pants and lands on the floor for everyone to see. Then, not so much legal anymore

Some states do have laws around holsters but Texas isn't one of them.

Very Bad Idea: Yes. At least get some kind of belt clip.

how's a mexican style carry?

Bascially just sticking the gun in the front of your pants and pulling your shirt over it.

And for the political correctness crowd no, it has no racist overtones. It is a historical method originally made popular by Mexican vaqueros.

 

[heviarti]

I think that's where you hide a '64 impala, a cholo or a pit bull in a shoulder rig....

 

[Oyeboten]

If one has a CCW, and the Hand Gun is not visible to others, then far as I know, sure...'Mexican' Carry is Legal.

If in a 'Legal to Open Carry' context, with no CCW, then it better be unambiguously visible, and that's part's a little iffy...being as only the Hand Gun's 'grip' is going to be visible at best...and that might not be good enough to qualify as open enough 'Open Carry, in the opinion of LEO or a Judge...so...

 

[Oro]

If one has a CCW, and the Hand Gun is not visible to others, then far as I know, sure...'Mexican' Carry is Legal.

No, as TexasRifleman said, there are states that specifically require the use of a holster when cc'ing and thus "Mexican carry" is thus illegal. However, as a resident, he is confident that for the OP in TX this is not a problem as it is not specifically banned there.

Instead of Mexican carry, I suggest employing the "New York" reload. Now that's the way to go...

 

[bensdad]

It may be legal to put my face on the front burner of my stove, but I ain't gonna do it. Get a IWB rig. Appendix carry works just fine... so long as the gun is secure and the trigger is guarded.

 

[rl2669]

Awhile back I read an article where a seasoned police officer talked about the upswing in civilian CCW. He said that in his career he seldom came across anybody carrying legally who was not using a holster, and conversely he seldom came across anyone carrying illegally who used a holster.

Whether its legal or not, failing to cover the trigger guard puts one at high risk of a ND.

 

[TehK1w1]

In Texas, it is legal to carry with no holster, although not very intelligent IMHO.

 

[AgentAdam]

I have a belt clip installed on my Glock and carry at about 2-3 o'clock when i can't conceal my Fobus or BlackHawk C.Q.C Spera but i still consider it mexican. In the south there aren't too many laws as long as its fully concealed(or not) and on your persons.

 

[rrruuunnn]

I used to carry a snubnose with a clipdraw. I'm having trouble hiding my gun around my waist without a bulge. I also have to wear a tee shirt inside because the wind will blow my long sleeve shirt up exposing my gun.

 

[Oyeboten]

Hi Oro,



You'd mentioned -

No, as TexasRifleman said, there are states that specifically require the use of a holster when cc'ing and thus "Mexican carry" is thus illegal. However, as a resident, he is confident that for the OP in TX this is not a problem as it is not specifically banned there.

I may well have mis-spoke then...pardon me...I did not know this.


I have only rarely carried in a Holster...usually, Pocket Carry...and years ago, or once in a while on my own property even now if a Long Barrel Pistol, 'Mexican' Carry...


It's fine if you are used to it, and have a tight Belt...Lol...and, seems best if the Barrel is not especially short.


I did have a little mis-hap once, long ago, had an old Ivor Johnson Break-Top in 38 S & W, 3 in Barrel, tucked in my waist...at a Bar...slow night, standing...anyway, somehow, Mr. I.J. slipped down, slid along my leg, kinda bouned off my ankle, bounded off the top of my Shoe, and skittered across the floor a few feet if mosly to the front...

No one noticed...I paused, stepped forward a little, and pretended to tie my Shoe...go it retreived, and, all was well...


I used to know a Police Leutenant, who had the same thing happen to him, with a nice old Browning Hi-Power, and, in a Bank as he was standing in line, off duty...his really 'skittered', went out about five feet and ended up twirling on the Marble floor...he said, "It got real 'quiet'..."



Oye...


Lol...

 

[dkk73]

I would also argue that safety of Mexican carry is very model-dependent. I would argue that, for me, it is not safe with a Glock (esp. with lightened trigger) but probably safe with an HK P7.

Not to start a flame war, just making a point for those who might have legitimate reason to do so (stepping out briefly with little warning, hiding a gun briefly as they exit a vehicle, etc.). I am not advocating this, just thinking about when such situations arise.

Definitely looks more legit and professional to have a holster, with regard to perceptions by police or others.

 

[TAB]

There was a professional trainer that recently died after having a ND while carrying mexican style. hit the artery in his leg and bleed to death.

 

[REAPER4206969]

I. NEW FINDINGS FROM FBI ABOUT COP ATTACKERS & THEIR WEAPONS

New findings on how offenders train with, carry and deploy the weapons they use to attack police officers have emerged in a just-published, 5-year study by the FBI.

Among other things, the data reveal that most would-be cop killers:

––show signs of being armed that officers miss;

––have more experience using deadly force in "street combat" than their intended victims;

––practice with firearms more often and shoot more accurately;

––have no hesitation whatsoever about pulling the trigger. "If you hesitate," one told the study's researchers, "you're dead. You have the instinct or you don't. If you don't, you're in trouble on the street...."

These and other weapons-related findings comprise one chapter in a 180-page research summary called "Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's Law Enforcement Officers." The study is the third in a series of long investigations into fatal and nonfatal attacks on POs by the FBI team of Dr. Anthony Pinizzotto, clinical forensic psychologist, and Ed Davis, criminal investigative instructor, both with the Bureau's Behavioral Science Unit, and Charles Miller III, coordinator of the LEOs Killed and Assaulted program.

"Violent Encounters" also reports in detail on the personal characteristics of attacked officers and their assaulters, the role of perception in life-threatening confrontations, the myths of memory that can hamper OIS investigations, the suicide-by-cop phenomenon, current training issues, and other matters relevant to officer survival. (Force Science News and our strategic partner PoliceOne.com will be reporting on more findings from this landmark study in future transmissions.)

Commenting on the broad-based study, Dr. Bill Lewinski, executive director of the Force Science Research Center at Minnesota State University-Mankato, called it "very challenging and insightful––important work that only a handful of gifted and experienced researchers could accomplish."

From a pool of more than 800 incidents, the researchers selected 40, involving 43 offenders (13 of them admitted gangbangers-drug traffickers) and 50 officers, for in-depth exploration. They visited crime scenes and extensively interviewed surviving officers and attackers alike, most of the latter in prison.

Here are highlights of what they learned about weapon selection, familiarity, transport and use by criminals attempting to murder cops, a small portion of the overall research:

WEAPON CHOICE.

Predominately handguns were used in the assaults on officers and all but one were obtained illegally, usually in street transactions or in thefts. In contrast to media myth, none of the firearms in the study was obtained from gun shows. What was available "was the overriding factor in weapon choice," the report says. Only 1 offender hand-picked a particular gun "because he felt it would do the most damage to a human being."

Researcher Davis, in a presentation and discussion for the International Assn. of Chiefs of Police, noted that none of the attackers interviewed was "hindered by any law––federal, state or local––that has ever been established to prevent gun ownership. They just laughed at gun laws."

FAMILIARITY.

Several of the offenders began regularly to carry weapons when they were 9 to 12 years old, although the average age was 17 when they first started packing "most of the time." Gang members especially started young.

Nearly 40% of the offenders had some type of formal firearms training, primarily from the military. More than 80% "regularly practiced with handguns, averaging 23 practice sessions a year," the study reports, usually in informal settings like trash dumps, rural woods, back yards and "street corners in known drug-trafficking areas."

One spoke of being motivated to improve his gun skills by his belief that officers "go to the range two, three times a week [and] practice arms so they can hit anything."

In reality, victim officers in the study averaged just 14 hours of sidearm training and 2.5 qualifications per year. Only 6 of the 50 officers reported practicing regularly with handguns apart from what their department required, and that was mostly in competitive shooting. Overall, the offenders practiced more often than the officers they assaulted, and this "may have helped increase [their] marksmanship skills," the study says.

The offender quoted above about his practice motivation, for example, fired 12 rounds at an officer, striking him 3 times. The officer fired 7 rounds, all misses.

More than 40% of the offenders had been involved in actual shooting confrontations before they feloniously assaulted an officer. Ten of these "street combat veterans," all from "inner-city, drug-trafficking environments," had taken part in 5 or more "criminal firefight experiences" in their lifetime.

One reported that he was 14 when he was first shot on the street, "about 18 before a cop shot me." Another said getting shot was a pivotal experience "because I made up my mind no one was gonna shoot me again."

Again in contrast, only 8 of the 50 LEO victims had participated in a prior shooting; 1 had been involved in 2 previously, another in 3. Seven of the 8 had killed offenders.

CONCEALMENT.

The offenders said they most often hid guns on their person in the front waistband, with the groin area and the small of the back nearly tied for second place. Some occasionally gave their weapons to another person to carry, "most often a female companion." None regularly used a holster, and about 40% at least sometimes carried a backup weapon.

In motor vehicles, they most often kept their firearm readily available on their person, or, less often, under the seat. In residences, most stashed their weapon under a pillow, on a nightstand, under the mattress––somewhere within immediate reach while in bed.

Almost all carried when on the move and strong majorities did so when socializing, committing crimes or being at home. About one-third brought weapons with them to work. Interestingly, the offenders in this study more commonly admitted having guns under all these circumstances than did offenders interviewed in the researchers' earlier 2 surveys, conducted in the 1980s and '90s.

According to Davis, "Male offenders said time and time again that female officers tend to search them more thoroughly than male officers. In prison, most of the offenders were more afraid to carry contraband or weapons when a female CO was on duty."

On the street, however, both male and female officers too often regard female subjects "as less of a threat, assuming that they not going to have a gun," Davis said. In truth, the researchers concluded that more female offenders are armed today than 20 years ago––"not just female gang associates, but female offenders generally."

SHOOTING STYLE.

Twenty-six of the offenders [about 60%], including all of the street combat veterans, "claimed to be instinctive shooters, pointing and firing the weapon without consciously aligning the sights," the study says.

"They practice getting the gun out and using it," Davis explained. "They shoot for effect." Or as one of the offenders put it: "[W]e're not working with no marksmanship....We just putting it in your direction, you know....It don't matter...as long as it's gonna hit you...if it's up at your head or your chest, down at your legs, whatever....Once I squeeze and you fall, then...if I want to execute you, then I could go from there."

HIT RATE.

More often than the officers they attacked, offenders delivered at least some rounds on target in their encounters. Nearly 70% of assailants were successful in that regard with handguns, compared to about 40% of the victim officers, the study found. (Efforts of offenders and officers to get on target were considered successful if any rounds struck, regardless of the number fired.)

Davis speculated that the offenders might have had an advantage because in all but 3 cases they fired first, usually catching the officer by surprise. Indeed, the report points out, "10 of the total victim officers had been wounded [and thus impaired] before they returned gunfire at their attackers."

MISSED CUES.

Officers would less likely be caught off guard by attackers if they were more observant of indicators of concealed weapons, the study concludes. These particularly include manners of dress, ways of moving and unconscious gestures often related to carrying.

"Officers should look for unnatural protrusions or bulges in the waist, back and crotch areas," the study says, and watch for "shirts that appear rippled or wavy on one side of the body while the fabric on the other side appears smooth." In warm weather, multilayered clothing inappropriate to the temperature may be a giveaway. On cold or rainy days, a subject's jacket hood may not be covering his head because it is being used to conceal a handgun.

Because they eschew holsters, offenders reported frequently touching a concealed gun with hands or arms "to assure themselves that it is still hidden, secure and accessible" and hasn't shifted. Such gestures are especially noticeable "whenever individuals change body positions, such as standing, sitting or exiting a vehicle." If they run, they may need to keep a constant grip on a hidden gun to control it.

Just as cops generally blade their body to make their sidearm less accessible, armed criminals "do the same in encounters with LEOs to ensure concealment and easy access."

An irony, Davis noted, is that officers who are assigned to look for concealed weapons, while working off-duty security at night clubs for instance, are often highly proficient at detecting them. "But then when they go back to the street without that specific assignment, they seem to 'turn off' that skill," and thus are startled––sometimes fatally––when a suspect suddenly produces a weapon and attacks.

MIND-SET.

Thirty-six of the 50 officers in the study had "experienced hazardous situations where they had the legal authority" to use deadly force "but chose not to shoot." They averaged 4 such prior incidents before the encounters that the researchers investigated. "It appeared clear that none of these officers were willing to use deadly force against an offender if other options were available," the researchers concluded.

The offenders were of a different mind-set entirely. In fact, Davis said the study team "did not realize how cold blooded the younger generation of offender is. They have been exposed to killing after killing, they fully expect to get killed and they don't hesitate to shoot anybody, including a police officer. They can go from riding down the street saying what a beautiful day it is to killing in the next instant."

"Offenders typically displayed no moral or ethical restraints in using firearms," the report states. "In fact, the street combat veterans survived by developing a shoot-first mentality.

"Officers never can assume that a criminal is unarmed until they have thoroughly searched the person and the surroundings themselves." Nor, in the interest of personal safety, can officers "let their guards down in any type of law enforcement situation."

....

 

[71Commander]

Thanks REAPER4206969. Wow!!!

 

[Sam1911]

In Gerogia (for one, maybe others) it is illegal to carry a concealed firearm without a holster or a clip-draw type retaining device.

The instructor (a VERY good instructor, in fact) who taught our Utah permit class also told us that one state requires that a concealed firearm be carried at or above the waistline, though I can't remember or find which one at the moment.

-Sam

 

[foghornl]

Legal? varies by state
Good idea? NO!

 

[runrabbitrun]

I would NEVER shove a loaded gun down my pants.
Trigger guard or not.

Thems my jewels man.

 

[joe817]

Great post REAPER! Thanks for sharing.

 

[AgentAdam]

With enough cant at 2-3oclock the muzzle isn't pointed at any part of your body,even when walking, unlike other positions like 6oclock pointed straight down.

 

[Dark Skies]

" I would NEVER shove a loaded gun down my pants.
Trigger guard or not."

+ 100 a holed old fella and shattered love spuds are not on my favourite things list.

 

[Rellian]

Whenever someone mentions Mexican carry, I think of a quote from a rather colorful fellow here in Utah's history on the subject:

D@#n thing might go off and blow your brains out!

 

[Xader]

As far as this style of carry goes, I have only two words:

Plaxico and Burress

Any questions?

 

[bartp40]

Get a IWB rig. Appendix carry ...

http://www.onesourcetactical.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1503

JOAB APPENDIX CARRY AIWB (Appendix Inside the Waist Band)

JOAB APPENDIX CARRY HOLSTER

Joab (pronounced Joe-Ab) was an Old Testament Warrior that led King David's Mighty men into battle. He was expert with all the weapons of his time and killed countless enemies in battle. Joab was the ultimate warrior of his era and this is the ultimate holster you can get today. It made sense to name this hoslter after him.

This is an Inside the Waistband Appendix Holster. It shares all of the attributes of the very popular Ehud holster. In fact, in all points it is identical to the Ehud. It, like the Ehud is designed to sit as low as possible without compromising accessibility. So it is both very easy to hide, as well as very fast to draw.

The only difference is the belt loops have been redesigned to go OVER the belt rather than underneath. It retains the Tuckable feature, but since the loops go over the belt, it is not as discreet as the Ehud. What it gives up in discretion, it makes up for in solid stability on the belt and in the ability to use with a wide variety of belt styles.