MI: Cops can detain you for OC. U.S. Court Ruled

[Midwest]

Michigan: Open Carry can be a reason for cops to detain you in a stunning U.S. District Court Ruling.... even though open carry is legal in Michigan.

A man was open carrying in Michigan and someone called 911 and the man was stopped. Ordered to lay down on the ground while the cop ran a mental health and criminal check on the man. The man broke no laws although the article says he was treated like a criminal.

The man filed a lawsuit claiming his rights were violated and the court ruled against him. The article says that the ruling will be appealed to the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit and the NRA offered to assist with appeal.


http://thefreethoughtproject.com/fe...ce-detain-individuals-open-carrying-firearms/


"Grand Rapids, Mich. – In a stunning violation of 2nd Amendment rights, the U.S. District Court of Western Michigan ruled police have the legal authority to detain individuals that choose to exercise their constitutional right to open carry a firearm. Open Carry is also specifically allowed under Michigan law.

The ruling means that people in Michigan who choose to exercise this constitutional right are now subject to being stopped by law enforcement for engaging in a completely lawful activity."

.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Open Carry is also specifically allowed under Michigan law.

Not exactly true at all. Open carry is not codified by law at all, and that which is not specifically prohibited is allowed. There is no law against open carry, therefore it is legal. Grand Rapids has pushed this boundary a number of times, despite numerous lawsuits. Looks like this time they won.

 

[F-111 John]

Wasn't it also in Grand Rapids where a man was arrested for open carrying at a polling place located within a school? He had a concealed pistol license, and under Michigan law, you cannot carry concealed on school grounds, but if you have a cpl you can open carry.

 

[Drail]

Michigan and Wisonsin L.E. has had problems with the idea of citizens carrying weapons for a very long time and see no problem with detaining subjects while they check them out. Will the courts uphold that? You pays yer money and you takes yer chances. It's still that way in a number of States - some cops don't know or care what the law states and don't really care. They're the police.......

 

[steve4102]

I believe the title of the article and of this thread is a tad misleading.

Deffert was detained for more than just the simple fact of "Open Carrying". There were other circumstances at play, one being his unusual behavior. According to the officer, he was acting strange while singing "Hakuna Matata".

It appears that the totality of the circumstances gave the officer the RAS needed to detain Deffert, not just his Open Carry.

Lets see what the 6th has to say, but I'm betting the will not overturn.

 

[ilbob]

I believe the title of the article and of this thread is a tad misleading.

Deffert was detained for more than just the simple fact of "Open Carrying". There were other circumstances at play, one being his unusual behavior. According to the officer, he was acting strange while singing "Hakuna Matata".

It appears that the totality of the circumstances gave the officer the RAS needed to detain Deffert, not just his Open Carry.

Lets see what the 6th has to say, but I'm betting the will not overturn.

singing or acting strange is now a good reason to lay someone out on the ground?

I would hope there is more to it than just that.

 

[MEHavey]

This article provides a more balanced account:
http://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...higan-courts-legislature-gun-rights/71042518/

Upon reading "the rest of the story," I agree with both the cops and the judge.
Guys like Deffert are going to push and push and push... in an in-your-face/what-
are ya-gonna-do-about-it manner... and then going to get the rest of us shut
down as legislation gets put in place to deal with them.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Remember that this is just a District Court (trial court) decision. It's does not create precedent and is "law" only as to the parties. It can be appealed.

So it will be interesting to see how the Sixth Circuit will deal with Deffert if it's appealed.

There two relevant Sixth Circuit cases: Northrup v. City of Toledo Police Department (Sixth Circuit, 14-4050, 2015) and Embody v. Ward (Sixth Circuit, 11-5963, 2012). Embody was actually cited in passing in Northrup (slip op., at 6).

Both involved a civil suit following a claimed wrongful detention for an investigation related to the open carrying of a firearm. In Northrup the Sixth Circuit found the stop and detention to violate Northrup's Fourth Amendment rights because the sole reason for the stop and detention appeared to be that he was openly carrying a gun; open carry of a gun is legal in Ohio. But the Sixth Circuit found the temporary detention of Embody to satisfy Fourth Amendment reasonableness requirements because of the nature of the gun carried by Embody, Embody's conduct, and the totality of the surrounding circumstances.

So it appears that in the Sixth Circuit, at least, openly carrying a gun where legal would not, by itself, justify a stop (Nothrup). But other surrounding circumstances, in addition to the openly carrying of a gun, could (Embody).

So the question in the Deffert case will be whether there were circumstances, beyond the mere legal open carry of a gun, which could justify the stop for Fourth Amendment purposes.

 

[wtr100]

singing or acting strange is now a good reason to lay someone out on the ground?

I would hope there is more to it than just that.

singing and acting strange while carrying a gun might be

 

[rooter]

I've said it before: cop baiting while open carrying, foolishly drawing attention to yourself by open carrying and acting a fool, and toting your openly carried piece into an establishment or a setting where you know it will create alarm and generate a police response "cause you can" will soon make it legally problematic for you. I agree with and support these necessary measures and hope they spread nationwide so "illtards with guns" stop creating a negative image for responsible gun toters.

 

[gun_with_a_view]

He's either what rooter said, an attention seeker, or this guy has drug or mental problems. All I hear is one giant flush for all of these types.

In view of recent events, open carry like in the above incident can get you killed. Do your own DD.