Mi Gun show Sign.

[Flyboy73]

I saw this sign as i was leaving the Birch run Gun show today. I don't see why it against the law to sell or buy firearms in the parking law. FTF to private sells are perfectly legal in MI. Is this a way for show to scare people into not dealing as you get there or leave, to make sure you pay to get in the show?

I am confused as to this.

Brion

 

[El Mariachi]

Signed Gun Show Management.

And there's your answer......

P.S.----also the phraseology really sucks there....Do not TRY to buy or sell.

I don't see a single city, county, state or Federal statute number anywhere on that sign that backs up their 'claim'

 

[whalerman]

This has been building for a long time, especially in the non-free states. Here in NY it has been the norm for 4-5 years. Join the NRA and vote. It is closer to being over than we care to admit.

 

[Owen Sparks]

No buying or selling in the parking lot? That is easy to get around.
Just make the deal in the parking lot and meet across the street to freely exchange your private property without involving the federal government.

 

[rondog]

I'd say that sign doesn't have any legal leg to stand on. Unless the gun show management owns the property itself and it becomes a trespassing issue. If they're just leasing a building like most gun shows do, I'd consider their sign meaningless. But I'd double-check with the authorities first, or just make the transaction elsewhere. I've bought all kinds of guns, ammo, bayonets, etc. in parking lots of WalMarts, Home Depots, shopping centers, any place that both parties can identify and find.

I went to meet one seller, and the place he wanted to meet turned out to be the parking lot of the Police Dept.! He didn't tell me he was a cop, but the Uberti .45 Colt sure is nice.

I bought a Winchester from a guy and met him in the parking lot of his office building. The rifle was in his office, so we headed that way. Got off the elevator, and his office was the local FBI Field Office! That one made me pucker, but I've got a nice Winnie .44 Trapper now!

So, FTF sales between private parties aren't illegal. Perhaps the place where you do it might have an objection, but I think the gun show is just trying to puff out their chest over the issue.

 

[Birch Knoll]

To the extent it has any legal basis, it's probably in trespass. The show doesn't need to own the the property; the venue owner will either delegate his right to control access to the property to the event manager, or will happily lend his own authority to the event for the purpose of ejecting unwanted persons from the event.

 

[Ignition Override]

My 'cherry' SKS was bought in the rear parking lot of a McDonalds, in early '08.
The Mini 14 sold in the front Kroger park. lot nearby.
The used Mini 30 was sold between Walmart and Sam's last summer.

Gun show promoters realize that they charge too much for the entrance fee, and that sign is either a reflection of this discomfort, or maybe to limit their liability if a gun later malfunctions or is used in a crime.

Remember the two gun shows which had accidental discharges Inside the shows?
In IL, a Mini 14 (.223 or 5.56) caused two minor and a serious injury: three people. And this rifle had been on a seller's table either morning of the show. The round in the magazine or chamber had been overlooked by two or three people. Imagine this in the parking lot.

 

[Flyboy73]

Seemed like a scare tactic to me. BS to me.

 

[Stacer]

Oops! I guess I "didn't see" that sign when it was there if feb. I both bought and sold a gun in the parking lot. They didn't lose any money, both parties still went into the show.

 

[Vaarok]

In NY it's illegal by specific mention. Elsewhere, I would presume as part of the show promoter's contract they agree to only allow attendees to conduct sales within the defined rented premises, and anywhere else constitutes a liability for everyone involved.

 

[Hit_Factor]

Is Birch Run a tribal property? If it is, maybe a tribal law, maybe a city ordinance, maybe BS.

If it is trespass I beleive you have to be warned of tresspassing before a complaint can be filed. If you heed the warning, that's the end of it. Recreational trespass as in hunting on property you don't have permission to hunt is a little different.

Call the local PD, they can answer what they enforce. But don't ever ask a cop for legal advice.

 

[hso]

Not a law, just an attempt to stop people from using the show to by/sell guns without their supporting the show.

When you think about it the Show has paid for space and advertising and is trying to keep the parasites from feeding off the attendees before they come into the show where people have actually paid real money for tables for the opportunity to purchase your gun or sell theirs to you.

We call the guys that hang around the entrance of a gun show "Hey, Buddy"ing everyone before they come in "pin hookers". The guys don't pay for a table, they just use the show as an opportunity to buy off of folks before they have a chance to get into the show.

 

[Flyboy73]

As far as i know and understand MI laws. If they found you doing a FTF, they could call the police and have you trespassed and tossed off the propriety.

This show was done by a company that does big gun shows all over the state.

 

[LibShooter]

If it is trespass I beleive you have to be warned of tresspassing before a complaint can be filed.

That's what the sign's for.

 

[exavid]

It's the same way in OR, you could be asked to get off the show's property and if you refused the police could be called to tell you that you were trespassing and to leave or be arrested. Much the same as entering a private building with a concealed weapon when there was a 'no weapons' sign on the door. It's not illegal per se but could open one to a trespass charge if you refused to leave. I just participated in a gun show hosted by my gun club these past three days. I know there were some sales done in the parking lot between people who were arriving with guns to sell or trade and people hanging around out front. We don't have any rules about that, folks can do that but better not if they are FFLs because then they'd have to do the background check. Face to face private sales are perfectly legal in OR assuming neither party knowingly sells or buys when they are not legally able to own a firearm.

 

[LibShooter]

...you could be asked to get off the show's property and if you refused the police could be called to tell you that you were trespassing and to leave or be arrested.

It's a question of politeness. They leased the parking lot; I'm a guest. So if they don't want me buying or selling in it, I'll respect that.

You're not welcome to stand in my driveway selling guns, either.

 

[exavid]

You can in my driveway if you give me first option.

 

[Owen Sparks]

It sounds like a rule rather than a law.
If you break a rule on private property about all they can do is ask you to leave. If you refuse then they can get the police involved but at worst you could only be charged with tresspass.

I used to work in a bar that had rules against men wearing tank tops. Sound like the same sort of thing.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Sounds to me like the gun show management wants you not to go to that gun show. I wouldn't.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Be polite and accomidating. Go across the street to make the physical exchange.

 

[Keb]

Seems Ive seen warnings that it is illegal to consumate a private sale when the initial contact was at a show.

What do you all think about that?

 

[bikemutt]

Seems Ive seen warnings that it is illegal to consumate a private sale when the initial contact was at a show.

What do you all think about that?

Only way I can imagine that being illegal is if the seller is an FFL, even then he'd probably be OK if he was selling a gun from his private collection.

We had a guy on the local gun show circuit get busted last year I think, he was making show contacts but selling out of his residence. I can't recall if he was FFL or not. His big problem is he was knowingly selling to felons. ATF and whoever else set up a sting and popped him.

 

[F-111 John]

The company that runs that Birch Run gun show also put on gun shows all across the state, and that sign is at every one of their venues.

http://www.migunshows.com/index.html

 

[Jim K]

It is likely unenforceable, and could be just to discourage sales that net the management nothing.

BUT, some anti-gun groups and TV stations have set up fake gun sales in gun show parking lots, complete with TV cameras. They took videos, with big "GUN SHOW" signs clearly visible, of hired actors pretending to buy and sell guns, which they broadcast, followed by a rant about closing the "gun show loophole".

Remember, BATFE has tried to revoke dealer's licenses because the dealer "allowed" illegal gun sales in "his" parking lot or even on public property near his store.

If those signs can stop that kind of activity by the gun-ban gang and the gun-hating Obama administration, I vote for keeping them up.

Jim

 

[akodo]

Elsewhere, I would presume as part of the show promoter's contract they agree to only allow attendees to conduct sales within the defined rented premises, and anywhere else constitutes a liability for everyone involved.

in which case it would be an issue for the promoter and those who pay the fee to set up a table, NOT Joe Average Attendee.