Penalties for Disobeying "No Guns" Signs in WI

[RatDrall]

I know it varies from State to State, but what is the penalty in Wisconsin for disobeying a "No Weapons" or "No Firearms" sign under the new carry law?

Does the licensed permit holder have to be confronted and told to leave, before commiting a crime, or can they just be in the store and have the police show up to write a citation or make an arrest?

 

[Monkeyleg]

The permit holder must be asked to leave. If he does not, then the police can arrest him for trespassing or other charges.

 

[RatDrall]

Any link to where this is written in law? I tried to find it in the recently passed Act 35, but was unable to find it in the middle of all the gibberish...

 

[Monkeyleg]

The section of A35 below refers to section 943.13 of Wisconsin statutes, which covers trespassing. A person who remains on the property after having been notified verbally or in writing that he can't be there is guilty of trespassing.

Section 80. 943.13 (1m) (c) of the statutes is created to read:
943.13 (1m) (c) 1. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains at a residence that the actor does not own or occupy after the owner of the residence, if he or she has not leased it to another person, or the occupant of the residence has notified the actor not to enter or remain at the residence while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. In this subdivision, "residence," with respect to a single-family residence, includes the residence building and the parcel of land upon which the residence building is located, and "residence," with respect to a residence that is not a single-family residence, does not include any common area of the building in which the residence is located or any common areas of the rest of the parcel of land upon which the residence building is located.
1m. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in a common area in a building, or on the grounds of a building, that is a residence that is not a single-family residence if the actor does not own the residence or does not occupy any part of the residence, if the owner of the residence has notified the actor not to enter or remain in the common area or on the grounds while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply to a part of the grounds of the building if that part is used for parking and the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in that part.
2. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in any part of a nonresidential building, grounds of a nonresidential building, or land that the actor does not own or occupy after the owner of the building, grounds, or land, if that part of the building, grounds, or land has not been leased to another person, or the occupant of that part of the building, grounds, or land has notified the actor not to enter or remain in that part of the building, grounds, or land while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply to a part of a building, grounds, or land occupied by the state or by a local governmental unit, to a privately or publicly owned building on the grounds of a university or college, or to the grounds of or land owned or occupied by a university of college, or, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of a building, grounds, or land used as a parking facility.
3. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains at a special event if the organizers of the special event have notified the actor not to enter or remain at the special event while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of the special event grounds or building used as a parking facility.
4. Enters or remains in any part of a building that is owned, occupied, or controlled by the state or any local governmental unit, excluding any building or portion of a building under s. 175.60 (16) (a), if the state or local governmental unit has notified the actor not to enter or remain in the building while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply to a person who leases residential or business premises in the building or, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of the building used as a parking facility.
5. Enters or remains in any privately or publicly owned building on the grounds of a university or college, if the university or college has notified the actor not to enter or remain in the building while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply to a person who leases residential or business premises in the building or, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of the building used as a parking facility.
Section 81. 943.13 (2) of the statutes is renumbered 943.13 (2) (am), and 943.13 (2) (am) (intro.) and 1., as renumbered, are amended to read:
943.13 (2) (am) (intro.) A person has received notice from the owner or occupant within the meaning of sub. (1m) (b), (e) or (f) if he or she has been notified personally, either orally or in writing, or if the land is posted. Land is considered to be posted under this subsection paragraph under either of the following procedures:
1. If a sign at least 11 inches square is placed in at least 2 conspicuous places for every 40 acres to be protected. The sign must carry provide an appropriate notice and the name of the person giving the notice followed by the word "owner" if the person giving the notice is the holder of legal title to the land and by the word "occupant" if the person giving the notice is not the holder of legal title but is a lawful occupant of the land. Proof that appropriate signs as provided in this paragraph subdivision were erected or in existence upon the premises to be protected prior to the event complained of shall be prima facie proof that the premises to be protected were posted as provided in this paragraph subdivision.
Section 82. 943.13 (2) (bm) of the statutes is created to read:
943.13 (2) (bm) 1. In this paragraph, "sign" means a sign that states a restriction imposed under subd. 2. that is at least 5 inches by 7 inches.
2. a. For the purposes of sub. (1m) (c) 1m., an owner of a residence that is not a single-family residence has notified an individual not to enter or remain in a part of that building, or on the grounds of that building, while carrying a firearm or with a particular type of firearm if the owner has posted a sign that is located in a prominent place near all of the entrances to the part of the building to which the restriction applies or near all probable access points to the grounds to which the restriction applies and any individual entering the building or the grounds can be reasonably expected to see the sign.
am. For the purposes of sub. (1m) (c) 2., 4., and 5., an owner or occupant of a part of a nonresidential building, the state or a local governmental unit, or a university or a college has notified an individual not to enter or remain in a part of the building while carrying a firearm or with a particular type of firearm if the owner, occupant, state, local governmental unit, university, or college has posted a sign that is located in a prominent place near all of the entrances to the part of the building to which the restriction applies and any individual entering the building can be reasonably expected to see the sign.
b. For the purposes of sub. (1m) (c) 2., an owner or occupant of the grounds of a nonresidential building or of land has notified an individual not to enter or remain on the grounds or land while carrying a firearm or with a particular type of firearm if the owner or occupant has posted a sign that is located in a prominent place near all probable access points to the grounds or land to which the restriction applies and any individual entering the grounds or land can be reasonably expected to see the sign.
c. For the purposes of sub. (1m) (c) 3., the organizers of the special event have notified an individual not to enter or remain at the special event while carrying a firearm or with a particular type of firearm if the organizers have posted a sign that is located in a prominent place near all of the entrances to the special event and any individual attending the special event can be reasonably expected to see the sign.

 

[RatDrall]

Thanks so much for the fast responses, but I'm still trying to understand the statutes:

While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in any part of a nonresidential building, grounds of a nonresidential building, or land that the actor does not own or occupy after the owner of the building, grounds, or land, if that part of the building, grounds, or land has not been leased to another person, or the occupant of that part of the building, grounds, or land has notified the actor not to enter or remain in that part of the building, grounds, or land while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm.

A person has received notice from the owner or occupant within the meaning of sub. (1m) (b), (e) or (f) if he or she has been notified personally, either orally or in writing, or if the land is posted.

But doesn't this mean that having a sign up is considered being "notified", and once the person carrying the gun walks past the sign he is then guilty of criminal trespassing, so no warning would be necessary?

 

[bikemutt]

But doesn't this mean that having a sign up is considered being "notified", and once the person carrying the gun walks past the sign he is then guilty of criminal trespassing, so no warning would be necessary?

That's what I take it to mean.

Now in WA, if I viewed a sign that said "No firearms allowed" and that's all it said, I might be inclined to ignore it for concealed carry as long as it's not an unlawful place to have a weapon, like a federal building, court house and such.

If the sign included something to the effect of "this applies to concealed weapon permit holders", then I'd disarm or not enter. Signs like this are posted on most over-21 establishments here.

 

[galapoola]

Some states have approved signs and proper placement guidelines for the entrance. That makes it fair for patrons with firearms.

 

[Monkeyleg]

I'm also a little confused by what appears to be "sign-as-notification" language in the statute above.

I had some input on the WI bills in 2001-2005, and I was told by those writing the bill that the permit holder could only be arrested after being told to leave, even if the place was posted with a sign. This is the same language as in previous bills, so I'm taking it on faith that the authors were correct.

If the authors (and thus I) are incorrect, then carrying where signs are posted would constitute trespassing, which isn't a major charge. I don't see any mention of punishment, though.

OTOH, my eyes can't take reading legalese long enough to look for any more. Why can't they just spell it out in plain english? "If there's a 'no-guns' sign that meets the requirements in this bill, and the signs are posted at every entrance to a building, and someone with a permit carries a gun into the building, the person is guilty of trespassing." That would save about 10,000 sheets of paper. Think of the trees saved!

 

[9mmepiphany]

I'm sure it varies from state to state and even between counties and LE agencies...not the meaning, but the application. There is a difference between how the law is written, what case law says and how local policy implements it.

In CA, a CCW holder can carry anywhere except Prohibited Buildings (Federal/State) and schools. Signs have no legal standing other than as a courtesy notice (yes, they are considered Notice)

While our Trespass codes read much like those posted already, Case Law on the subject states that there must be an individual request that the trespasser leaves (and he has to refuse) before Enforcement action begins. In talking to officers from other states, during training classes, this common sense approach seems pretty universal.