Michigan casino

[smalls]

So this year for our anniversary, the wife and I are planning on booking a room at the casino. Our friend is planning on doing their birthday there, so we figured we'd get a room, too, and celebrate her birthday, and our anniversary.
I know that the casino's and their parking garages are off limits for carrying, but if I stay the night in the hotel part of the casino, can I bring it to the room? I'm pretty sure it's considered my "castle" for the night, but with Michigan's goofy no carry zones, I'm not quite positive. Obviously it won't leave the room, with the exception of transporting it in/out of the building.

 

[Trebor]

Good question. I don't know the answer, but I do have some advice that may help you find the answer.

In Michigan Casinos are covered not only by the CPL law, but also by the laws regulating Casinos. That means that a firearm ban on the premises is likely to be in the laws regulating Casinos, and not in the general CPL law. So, you should also look at those laws, and not just the CPL law.

I know there's a state feature that has Michigan laws online, but I don't know the link.

 

[smalls]

Hmm, I'll have to try and find the casino laws when I get to my pc.

 

[Owen Sparks]

A man from my county was robbed at gunpoint and locked in the trunk of his car in a casino parking lot. The security people saw what was happening on camera and got him out pretty quick but they never caught the thief or recovered his money.

 

[smalls]

Well, no one ever said the no gun zones made sense, or worked.

 

[F-111 John]

Keeping in mind that I'm no lawyer, it appears that the actual law that prohibits weapons in Casinos is Michigan Department of Treasury Rule 432.1212:

R 432.1212 Weapons in casino.
Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a
casino, except for the following entities:
(a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as
defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as
amended, being § 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
(b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. § 8331.
(c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured
areas.
(2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino
shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming
section of their presence.

There is also language elsewhere that exempts the parking areas of a casino, but nothing about the hotel areas.

So the question is: Is the hotel area considered "in a casino?"

 

[smalls]

In Michigan, the parking area is NOT exempt. It's the only one of our "gun free zones" where the parking area is not exempt. I'm on my phone right now, but you can read it on handgunlaws.us

 

[F-111 John]

In Michigan, the parking area is NOT exempt.

Interesting. The Michigan State Police website has this misleading information:

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10947--,00.html

Pistol Free Areas

Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:


1. Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian

2. Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.

3. Sports arena or stadium

4. A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises

5. Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons

6. An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more

7. A hospital

8. A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

9. A Casino

"Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above.

 

[Zane]

Interesting. The Michigan State Police website has this misleading information:

If you look at Section 28.425o , the word "casino" is not mentioned. It looks like someone at the MSP added it to that page.

 

[smalls]

Page 4 on the Michigan section on handgunlaw.us, under "places you can't carry". Number 10 states that the casino parking lot isn't exempt. I can get the PDF on my phone, but can't copy/paste it, sorry.

 

[F-111 John]

I read the Handgun.us website earlier, but it is not the actual law, nor is it from an official Michigan State source. It does reference 28.425o, however, as it's source and, as Zane pointed out, casinos are not mentioned in that statute. So I'd like to find out exactly where casino parking lots are made pistol free by official public act.

All I could find is Michigan Department of Treasury Rule 432.1212, and it is silent as to what constitutes "in a casino," so there must be some AG clarification, or a court ruling of some sort that defined the parking area as "in a casino."

Does anybody know the actual citation? I have shot off an email to the Michigan State Police for posting their misleading information.

 

[smalls]

Well, the way I see it, a casino with a hotel can't just have slot machinees everywhere, or it would prohibit underage guests (kids, and what not). They wouldn't want to do that, so they seperate the casino and the hotel portions of the building. So even though they are in the same building, but seperated, is it legal?
And, I think we're looking in the wrong place. I already know I can't carry in the casino, and I'm really. Not even asking to carry in the hotel portion. I just want to know if I can have a firearm in the hotel room. CPL laws don't have any affect on this, I would assume.

 

[deadin]

Don't know about Michigan, but out here in my State the casinos are on Indian land and I think Tribal regulations apply. The Feds and State only have minimal authority.

 

[smalls]

We have one or two casinos that are on indian land, but not the ones in Detroit.

 

[andrewstorm]

cops can carry

In casinos,cause if my memory serves me ,a few years back a local cop shot himself at a blackjack table................

 

[NavyLCDR]

Don't know about Michigan, but out here in my State the casinos are on Indian land and I think Tribal regulations apply. The Feds and State only have minimal authority.

Tribal regulations only apply to tribal members as law. Trespassing laws apply to non-indians on reservations and if you don't abide by the tribal regulations the tribal police can ask you to leave the reservation and if you don't, you can be criminally guilty of trespassing.

The tribal police are also sworn law enforcement officers in Washington, have the power of arrest and can write citations for violations of state law both on and off the reservation and forward those citations to the Washington State court system.

 

[smalls]

Andrewstorm, police are exempt from the pistol free zones, I believe. And besides, I'm not a cop, so it doesn't apply to me.

 

[theicemanmpls]

The OP wanted to know about what to do in the hotel room.

We have casino laws here. I also travel to the peoples republic of Chicago often. I am well aware of the laws, and do what I can to be in compliance.

I travel with my firearm unloaded, in a lock box, locked in my luggage, which is locked in the trunk of my vehicle.

I double lock the doors, and use a door stop alarm, in case someone has a master key.

The hotel room I am renting for my stay is my home. Sometimes, the hotel may be in a less then desirable area. The Illinois, and Chicago laws will not protect myself, or family in the event of a robbery.

I refuse to become a victim. In the dresser, next to my bed is a loaded pistol. My car keys are next to the firearm, so I won't leave it for the maid to find after I check out.

This is what I do. It may not be in total compliance with the rules, but, better judged by 12, then carried by six. Only my wife and I know what is going on, and I will keep it that way.

 

[mac66]

The "casino" is the gaming area. You can carry in the parking lot or the hotel. Just don't carry in the gaming area.

 

[smalls]

As far as I know, the parking lot is not exempt, and no one has showed me proof otherwise. I understand there is a difference between the hotel and the gaming area, but does the law?

 

[F-111 John]

Finally, a definitive answer. I emailed the Michigan State Police and this is the response I received. Casino parking lots are exempt from the Pistol Free Areas, and the handgun.us website is in error.

The email in full, with names redacted:

Mr. (F-111 John)

Casinos are in fact mentioned in MCL 28.425o(2) by reference to
administrative rule R 432.1212. R 432.1212 states that an individual
may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino with exception for
certain entities (e.g., federal law enforcement officers, armored car
personnel picking up or delivering currency). The administrative rule
set that includes R 432.1212 does not define casino. Therefore, you
have to go to the Michigan Gaming Control and Revenue Act, specifically
MCL 432.202, to find the definition of casino. MCL 432.202 provides
that casino means a building in which gaming is conducted. Clearly, by
this definition of casino, parking lots are excluded so carrying in the
parking lot would not be a violation of R 432.1212. I believe the
confusion lies in that MCL 28.425(3) excludes parking areas from the
definition of premises under subsection (1), but casino is included in
subsection (2). The Legislature did not need to include the parking
areas of casinos in subsection (3) because doing so would not be a
violation of R 432.1212.

In summary, the information included on our Web site is correct. The
information regarding the parking areas of casinos included on the
handgunlaw.us Web site is incorrect.

The following are links for your review:

MCL 28.425o
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(te1of245dvio4l45xzctwx45))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-28-425o.pdf

MCL 432.202
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(te1of245dvio4l45xzctwx45))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-432-202.pdf

Michigan Administrative Code
http://www.michigan.gov/lara/0,4601,7-154-35738_5698---,00.html

Sincerely,


Sergeant Aimee Maike
Michigan State Police
Office of the Director
Legal Resource and Education Unit
333 South Grand Avenue
P.O. Box 30634
Lansing, Michigan 48909
Desk: (517) 241-1906
Fax: (517) 241-0991


>>> MSP_Webmaster 1/12/2012 3:25 PM >>>
f01Name: (F-111 John)
f02Address: *********
f03City: Holt
f04State: MI
f05Zipcode: 48842
f06phonenumber: ***-***-****
f07emailaddress: *****@****.***
f08Question: On the Michigan State Police website at:

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10947--,00.html


It states that the parking area of a Casino is exempt from the Pistol
Free Areas defined in Section 28.425o, but Section 28.425o doesn't
mention Casinos at all.

Furthermore, the website handgunlaw.us at:

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/michigan.pdf

States "The parking lots of Casino's are off Limits to those with a
permit to carry."

Can you clarify whether the parking area of a Casino is exempt from the
Pistol Free Areas, or if Casino parking areas are NOT exempt, could you
provide the citation, court ruling, Department of Treasury rule, or
other statement that does not exempt the parking areas.

Also, if the parking area of Casinos are not exempt, could you please
update your website to reflect this?

Thank you,

(F-111 John)

Now, to the op's question, is the hotel area part of the casino? I would say 'yes' if you have to walk through the casino to get to the check-in counter of the hotel.

If the hotel is a separate building from the casino, and you can walk from the parking area to the hotel lobby without setting foot in the casino, and there are no slot machines, keno monitors, or any other gaming being conducted in the hotel area, then I'd say it's OK.

In either case, you can safely conceal carry in your car, and legally lock up your firearm in a lockbox in your car (which I hope you have one bolted or chained down in your trunk) while you're in the casino.

 

[smalls]

Thank you for that post. Definittely cleared that up.
I'd assume they have a seperate entrance, but I'll have to verify that.

 

[F-111 John]

I've only stayed at a couple of casino hotels, once in Vegas and once in Windsor, Ontario. In both cases, you had to walk through part of the casino in order to reach the check-in desk.

I've been to Soaring Eagle in Mt. Pleasant, but never stayed there so I don't know if you can get to the hotel desk without going through the front doors (which open right into the casino.)

 

[smalls]

Yeah, Ceaser's in Windsor has you walk through the casino to the hotel, I'm pretty sure. It's been a while. I'll probably just call and ask when I make my reservations.

 

[Gary Slider]

F-111 sent me that email and it got me looking again. It use to be in the Administrative Code for Casinos that the parking lots were off limits. I checked the Administrative Code again and Parking lots are not mentioned there. My only conclusion is they removed it from the Admin Code for the reason the MI State Police stated that it was in conflict with State Law. I removed that restriction from the Michigan page.