Michigan Duty to Inform

[smalls]

The police knocked on my buddies door the other day to ask a few questions about a neighbor of his. He was carrying in his house, and realized he wasn't sure if he had to inform the officer of his weapon or not, since it wasn't a traffic stop. He figured he'd just let them know, anyway to be on the safe side.

He asked me, because I'm up on most of the gun laws here in MI, and I wasn't sure, either.

So, what's the protocol if I just happen into a conversation with a LEO? Is there a duty to inform?

And let's not get into the "you should inform anyway" debate.

 

[CoRoMo]

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/michigan.pdf

From the Michigan State Police.
Proper Conduct During Encounters with Police
Responsibilities of Individuals With a Concealed Pistol License:

1. An individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol who is stopped by a police officer (traffic stop or otherwise) while in possession of a pistol shall immediately disclose to the police officer that he or she is carrying a concealed pistol either on their person or in their motor vehicle.

• Failure to disclose this information to a police officer carries the following penalties:
• First offense = State Civil Infraction - $500 fine and 6-month CCW license suspension.
• Second offense = State Civil Infraction - $1000 fine and CCW license revocation.

2. An individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall have the license in his or her possession at all times he or she is carrying a concealed pistol.

• Failure to possess CCW license when carrying a concealed pistol is a State Civil Infraction and a $100.00 fine.

3. Upon request, an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall show both of the following to a police officer:

• His or her license to carry a concealed pistol
• His or her driver license or personal identification card
• Failure to show CCW license and Michigan driver license or Michigan personal identification card when carrying a concealed pistol is a State Civil Infraction and $100.00 fine.

4. A pistol carried in violation of numbers 1, 2, or 3 is subject to immediate seizure by a police officer.

• If a weapon is seized for failure to possess a CCW license while carrying a concealed pistol:
• Individual has 45 days in which to display their license to carry a concealed pistol to the law enforcement agency that seized the pistol and the pistol shall be returned.
• If the individual does not display their license to carry a concealed pistol within 45 days the pistol is subject to forfeiture.

...

 

[SHR970]

All of that applies to being out in public with a firearm. No permit is required to possess a firearm concealed or otherwise in your home MCL 750.227(2). That comes down to need to know and warrant as applicable.

Michigan Firearms Laws

 

[smalls]

Right, but that's a stop, CoRoMo.

If my car runs out of gas, and an officer stops to help push it out of traffic, that's not a stop, do I have to inform?

 

[SHR970]

If you are out in public and carrying concealed and have lawful contact with a peace officer while carrying under permit....yes.

Under your scenario now presented, what if your weapon prints and the officer notices it? Then you are liable to have several guns pointed at you...he'll no doubt be calling for backup. Then you have LOTS of splainin' to do. So now I'll remove myself from the realm of hypothetical and back to the original question.

If a cop comes to my door with no warrant and wants to talk about anything other than what's going on in my residence, I have no obligation to inform under MI. law as I see it written in that lengthy guide.

An awful lot of those laws look very similar to what I have here in Cali. You don't need a permit in your home, on your property, or place of business. If on your property and he notices you printing, he will probably change the conversation to the gun; if you tell him you have one same deal applies. He may wish to hold your gun during your conversation "for his safety" and even to run the serial number. Personally I take the fifth.

 

[7.62 Nato]

Duty to inform (in MI.) applies only when you are being detained (stopped) AND are carrying concealed under authority of a CPL. Since your friend was on his property he did not require the CPL to carry concealed at that time so therefore there was no duty to inform. Don't expect the police to know the laws. I've been told I needed a "CCW" to carry in my home, and that I needed a "CCW", or license to Open Carry. I've also been told I had to carry ID, and produce it when told. Of course all these are false. Know the laws to protect yourself.

"If on your property and he notices you printing, he will probably change the conversation to the gun; if you tell him you have one same deal applies. He may wish to hold your gun during your conversation "for his safety" and even to run the serial number. Personally I take the fifth. "

Unless there is RAS, probable cause, or a search warrant there is no authority for him to do that or even be on your property.

 

[smalls]

Ok, this is all exacctly what I thought. Thanks for the answers.

SHR970, they cannot run the serial numbers, that's an illegal search.

 

[SHR970]

Smalls I said

He may wish to hold your gun during your conversation "for his safety" and even to run the serial number.

I never said it was legal for him to do so.

The cops say and do lots of things that are not necessarily within the bounds of the law.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I've been told I needed a "CCW" to carry in my home, and that I needed a "CCW", or license to Open Carry. I've also been told I had to carry ID, and produce it when told. Of course all these are false. Know the laws to protect yourself.

I'm also from Michigan, and you can always tell who has no idea what they're talking about when they refer to the Michigan CPL as a "CCW". If they haven't researched something enough to know the real name of the license, everything else they're saying is probably BS too.

 

[cyberhick]

As a Michigan resident, if an officer approaches me I take the law as I need to inform them. It may not be required on my property but it could save me the hassle and cost of going to court to prove I'm right.

Sent via smoke signal. Carrier pigeon on windy days.

 

[dab102999]

I am with cyberhick on this one..why even present the senerio to hassel. I am in process of getting my license in michigan but had one for years when i was in indiana...those days i was a long haired hippy (college days). And whenever i was pulled over i would present my permit. Even if i wasnt carrying. And i know in that situation i didnt have to do so but on two occasions i truely believe it kept me from getting a ticket...i know not all cops are good. And i know not all cops know the law but i was also brought up to respect miltary, firefighters, and police because they are there to protect you. My wife works in the court system and she sees it every day for various things. And even if u r inocent, and not doing anything wrong. And even if u get lucky enought to have a judge talk to the officer like a little kid to make you feel good. You still will have days opon days of missed work, lawer bills and the such.

 

[smalls]

cyberhick and dab102999, re read this from my OP:

And let's not get into the "you should inform anyway" debate.

I was looking for a legal answer, not an opinion on what I should do.

 

[316SS]

And let's not get into the "you should inform anyway" debate.

That didn't take long.

 

[dab102999]

Sorry about that. I know what u asked but after reading all the responces i forgot all of original post.

 

[cyberhick]

Ok, I'll rephrase, instead of "I take the law", "when I read it, I understand the law to be". Per my understanding, the law states that when I am approached by an officer I am to inform him if I am carrying concealed.

 

[smalls]

Citation? What CoRoMo posted was in reference to a stop, or detainment.

 

[dab102999]

...

 

[hermannr]

I just OC and let anyone that cares inform themselves. No officer is going to disarm me on my own property unless he is ready to arrest me for something,,, and is willing to get his pocket picked in court.

 

[rebilacx]

Ok, I'll rephrase, instead of "I take the law", "when I read it, I understand the law to be". Per my understanding, the law states that when I am approached by an officer I am to inform him if I am carrying concealed.

You only need to inform if you are being "stopped" not when you are simply "approached". If you look up the firearm laws in Michigan, the protocol is really quite simple.
Proper Conduct During Encounters with Police

And as far as not wanting a "hassle", it's never a hassle to stand up for your rights. This is why so many of our rights are being taken away every day.

 

[NavyLCDR]

This is the actual Michigan statute (I always wonder why these debates go on without anyone posting the actual statute):

28.425f Concealed pistol license; possession; disclosure to police officer; violation; penalty; seizure; forfeiture; "peace officer" defined.

Sec. 5f. (1) An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol shall have his or her license to carry that pistol in his or her possession at all times he or she is carrying a concealed pistol.

(2) An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol shall show both of the following to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer:

(a) His or her license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) His or her driver license or Michigan personal identification card.

(3) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle.

Notice the word I highlighted. The word "stopped" has a completely different meaning in law than the word "approached". "Stopped", in law, means detained. In order for a law enforcement officer to legally detain anyone, they must have reasonable and articulable suspicion that person has/is/about to commit a crime.

The OP's scenario does NOT require informing. Unless the officer is STOPPING (detaining) you under suspicion of having committed a crime, there is no duty to inform.

 

[smalls]

Thanks, Navy. I knew when I had to inform during a stop, but I wasn't sure if I was missing something else, or some other statute.