Michigan Gun Laws

[JamesKelly]

Brain short-circuit, put this in with knives. And they still let me drive!

Michigan Antique Firearms Laws changed a couple years ago. We can now buy new percussion revolvers without a purchase permit. Many dealers about the country do not yet know this. Here in Rochester we have little crime & the police were nice enough to spend considerable time looking it up for me. I can email anyone a couple of pdf’s on this subject, if you would like. A few weeks ago I had to send one to Cimarron in order to convince them to sell me an 1860 Army, Civilian Model. They believed what I sent them, I got the pistol and none of us are in jail. A number of other suppliers may need educated, if a Michigander wishes to purchase from them. Some guys on gunbroker know, others do not.

MCL 28.422 No, antique pistols made before 1898 and replicas of antiques that use black powder, matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system do not require a License to Purchase. The pistol is still subject to all concealed pistol licensing laws.
Best way to find the above is log on to: http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/d_ccwfaq.asp

Whoops--this should have been on the Blackpowder forum. Sorry.

You may also log on to:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(vva...e=mcl-750-231a

Here is an excerpt from that long document::
750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.
Sec. 231a. (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:
(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
(b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.
(c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.
.
(a) "Antique firearm" means either of the following:
(i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898

 

[mykeal]

I followed the link to the MCRGO CCW FAQ page and looked at each of the links there, but I was unable to find any reference to purchases of antique or replica firearms not requiring a permit. All the links were about the CPL permit, rather than purchase permits. Could you help me find the reference?

The link to the legislature.gov returned a 404 File Not Found error, so I Googled MCL 750.227 and found the document. However, 750.227 is again about concealed carry, not purchase permits.

I sent a PM with my email address so you could send me the .pdf files.

 

[JamesKelly]

I'll email you the pdfs later.
MCRGO info is a little hard to locate.
1. log on to www.mcrgo.org
2. SEARCH: Antique
3. Look under MCRGO Freq. Asked Questions about MI Gun Laws
4. Scroll down, way way down to--

Q: What is a “pistol” under Michigan law?
A: A pistol is defined as any firearm 30” in length or less (can include rifles [26”] and shotguns [30”], and pellet or dart guns). A smoothbore gun that shoots only BB’s .177 cal or less is not considered a firearm. All pellet guns are firearms. BB guns that shoot pellets or darts as well as BBs are considered firearms. A paint ball pistol is not considered a firearm nor is a USCG approved 12 ga. flare pistol, if used and carried as a signaling device.

Black Powder and Antiques (as of May of 2004)
Sections 2 (MCL 28.422) and 9 (MCL 28.429) of Public Act 372 of 1927, the concealed weapons law, do not apply to antique firearms. MCL 28.432 now says that purchasing, owning, carrying, possessing, using, or transporting an antique firearm is not be subject to the licensure requirements under section 2 (purchase permits) or the requirements that a pistol be subject to a safety inspection conducted by the local police department under section 9.

The law now imports the definition of “antique firearm” from Section 231a of the Michigan Penal Code. Under that act, “antique firearm” is defined to mean (1) a firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of such firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898; or (2) a firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of

 

[Nicodemus38]

can you show any actual stats on if the rules you qoute have actually been applied into general law for the state of michigan? its rather easy to find old drafts of house bills that have been posted online but never updated once the draft was changed for the final vote session that got it approved by the state government.

also, the police still do the safety check when you bring it in for registration. i do know there was talk of getting rid of that, but nothing official has shown up anywhere in michigan.
the state still consideres all handguns the same becasue they use the length limit, and legally you need a purchase permit for them. and if you get a purchase permit you ahve to take it back after 10 days or show them what you bought with it.
also the honest up to date FFLs in the state will not sell you a handgun unless you have that purchase permit.

 

[arcticap]

Is this it?

Near the bottom it states "eff. Jan. 7, 2009", and (h) states that the inapplicability includes "Purchasing, owning, carrying, possessing, using, or transporting an antique firearm."

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(rx...leg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-28-432

FIREARMS (EXCERPT)
Act 372 of 1927


28.432 Inapplicability of MCL 28.422; citation as “Janet Kukuk act”.
Sec. 12.

(1) Section 2 does not apply to any of the following:

.
.
.
.

(h) Purchasing, owning, carrying, possessing, using, or transporting an antique firearm. As used in this subdivision, "antique firearm" means that term as defined in section 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.231a.

.
.
.
(2) The amendatory act that added subsection (1)(h) shall be known and may be cited as the "Janet Kukuk act".



History: 1927, Act 372, Eff. Sept. 5, 1927 ;-- CL 1929, 16761 ;-- CL 1948, 28.432 ;-- Am. 1964, Act 216, Eff. Aug. 28, 1964 ;-- Am. 2000, Act 381, Eff. July 1, 2001 ;-- Am. 2004, Act 99, Imd. Eff. May 13, 2004 ;-- Am. 2006, Act 75, Eff. July 1, 2006 ;-- Am. 2008, Act 195, Eff. Jan. 7, 2009
Popular Name: CCW
Popular Name: Concealed Weapons
Popular Name: Right to Carry
Popular Name: Shall Issue

 

[whosyrdaddy]

Near the bottom it states "eff. Jan. 7, 2009", and (h) states that the inapplicability includes "Purchasing, owning, carrying, possessing, using, or transporting an antique firearm."

What you're seeing at the bottom is a chronological list of the changes to this part of the original Act 372 of 1927. The entry "eff. Jan. 7, 2009" indicates the most recent amendment to the Act, being Act 195 of 2008, that repeals MCL 28.429 which previously required safety inspections for handguns.

The important change pertaining to bp handguns was the one you posted, MCL 28.432 as amended by Act 99 of 2004 which exempts them from the purchase permit requirements of MCL 28.422.

 

[whosyrdaddy]

Originally posted by Nicodemus38;

can you show any actual stats on if the rules you qoute have actually been applied into general law for the state of michigan? its rather easy to find old drafts of house bills that have been posted online but never updated once the draft was changed for the final vote session that got it approved by the state government.

also, the police still do the safety check when you bring it in for registration. i do know there was talk of getting rid of that, but nothing official has shown up anywhere in michigan.
the state still consideres all handguns the same becasue they use the length limit, and legally you need a purchase permit for them. and if you get a purchase permit you ahve to take it back after 10 days or show them what you bought with it.
also the honest up to date FFLs in the state will not sell you a handgun unless you have that purchase permit.

Generally speaking, I try to respond to misinformation posted here with very specific citations to credible sources. But, in this case, you are so far off from the facts in almost everything that you wrote, all I can do for you is to post this link for this very "official" document and suggest that you read it in it's entirety at least 3 times.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/firearms.pdf

Do you seriously define an "honest up to date FFL" as one who makes up laws or special requirements where none exist?

God help us all.

 

[mykeal]

Nicodemus38 -
JamesKelly and whosrydaddy are absolutely correct in their posts. The Sheriff in our county is no longer doing safety inspections; in fact, they've told me not to even bring the gun in to the office when dropping off their copy of the purchase permit. If anyone's even looking at your gun it's probably only to verify the serial number matches the permit. I have purchased guns since the law changed and can state absolutely that it's being followed in my country.

As for permits being required for antique replicas, the same is true. I have purchased two since that change and both times was told by both the sellers (one was an FFL) and the Sheriff that no permit was required. I asked JamesKelly to send me the references so I could prove it to out of state suppliers.

Do my 'statistics' convince you? Would you like to talk to my local Sheriff and County Prosecutor (who is a member of our sportsman's club)? I strongly suggest you join the Michigan Coalition of Responsible Gun Owneres (MCRGO) at mcrgo.org. They do an excellent job of keeping up on the laws in Michigan (although the web site is a little focused on CPL laws).

 

[Nicodemus38]

was the safety inspection stillhappening last november 2009? uncle had two of them done on cf pistolas.
also, how do we even get this put into general information for vendors?

 

[mykeal]

I assume you meant November of 2008; if so the answer is yes. The change was effective in January of 2009.

How is to do what JamesKelly is doing - send them a copy of the law. The purchase permit change would obviously matter to a dealer; I doubt they would care about the safety inspection change.

 

[arcticap]

I don't know for sure but the Janet Kukuk Act appears to have taken affect July 1, 2006 unless it was vetoed by the governor.
But the 2006 date noted underneath the act [see post #5] seems to agree with that earlier date of enactment.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2005-2006/publicact/pdf/2006-PA-0075.pdf


On a side note, the author of the act appeared to have been State Rep. Janet Kukuk (R-Macomb Twp.) for who the act was named.

http://www.pub.umich.edu/daily/2000/oct/10-09-2000/news/13.html

 

[whosyrdaddy]

I don't know for sure but the Janet Kukuk Act appears to have taken affect July 1, 2006 unless it was vetoed by the governor.
But the 2006 date noted underneath the act [see post #5] seems to agree with that earlier date of enactment.

The Janet Kukuk Act was created by Act 99 of 2004 and became effective May 13th 2004. It was part of a trio of Acts passed together at that time that included Act 99,100, and 101. From this date forward, percussion handguns purchased in MI no longer required either a purchase permit or a safety inspection.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(lglpzl45p5ow4155zzhskmz2))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2004-HB-5427


What you are referring to above is Act 75 of 2006 which amended this section by adding the following.

(i) An individual carrying, possessing, using, or transporting



a pistol belonging to another individual, if the other individual's



pistol is properly licensed and inspected under this act and the



individual carrying, possessing, using, or transporting the pistol



has obtained a license under section 5b to carry a concealed



pistol.

Here is the link to the bill that shows the changes to the law as passed by the legislature.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2005-2006/billengrossed/House/htm/2005-HEBS-4642.htm

It is important to note that there is no such thing as an Act that has not been signed into law in MI. Bills passed by both houses are known as Enrolled Bills until they are signed or vetoed.

NOTE: Public Acts exist in two different forms:
1) Bills that have been approved by the Legislature and signed into law by the Governor, filed with the Secretary of State, and assigned a Public Act number. This version is as it was originally passed and is considered a legislative document. Use the search below to find legislative public act documents. To obtain versions public act documents prior to 1997, please contact the law library at (517)373-0630.
2) Public Acts also become part of the Michigan Compiled Laws. This version is as it exists today and includes the changes that have been made to it by way of subsequent legislation. This version is available provided it was not an appropriations act and it has not been repealed. Use the Public Act MCL Search page to find public acts within the Michigan Compiled Laws.

If you want to see what part of the law was actually changed by a particular Act, you must click on the Bill as passed by both the house and senate. There, you will see the parts that are to be removed with a line stricken through them and the new text shown in bold.

Effective Jan 7th 2009, No handgun of any kind is required to have a safety inspection in MI.

 

[mykeal]

JamesKelly is absolutely correct down to the smallest details. Michigan's process of enacting legislation, especially amended legislation, is incredibly confusing at times. He's done an excellent job of ferreting out the applicable information. Makes one wonder if he's some sort of professional....

 

[mjsmith1223]

Thanks for posting this. It's good information to know.

 

[arcticap]

whosyrdaddy,
I provided the link to Public Act 75 which became effective in 2006 and it seems very clear that the entire Section 1 was passed and not only subsection (i) that you're referring to as being passed.
Section 1 is the section that includes subsection (h) regarding the inapplicability of antique firearms to the requirement of needing a purchase permit which was the original topic.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2005-2006/publicact/pdf/2006-PA-0075.pdf

On the other hand, I do agree with you that Section 2 which names subsection (h) as the Janet Kukuk Act appears to not have been part of what was amended and passed into law in 2006. So Section 2 most likely was previously passed as you assert and simply restated in the context of the entire amended 2006 Act.
Even the link to the bill that you provided was date Feb., 2006.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2005-2006/billengrossed/House/htm/2005-HEBS-4642.htm

I may be wrong but that's how I understand it.
When the Act was passed is sort of a moot point anyway so long as the relevant law being discussed is the current version.

 

[whosyrdaddy]

I provided the link to Public Act 75 which became effective in 2006 and it seems very clear that the entire Section 1 was passed and not only subsection (i) that you're referring to as being passed.
Section 1 is the section that includes (h) regarding the inapplicability of antique firearms to the requirement of needing a purchase permit which was the original topic.

Arcticap, I can certainly understand the confusion given the complexity of the current system. I will simplify this as best as possible by providing the following two documents.

The first document is Act 99 of 2004. The second is Act 75 of 2006. Please note that the body of the text is identical except for addition of (i) in Act 75.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2003-2004/publicact/htm/2004-PA-0099.htm

Act No. 99

Public Acts of 2004

Approved by the Governor

May 13, 2004

Filed with the Secretary of State

May 13, 2004

EFFECTIVE DATE: May 13, 2004

STATE OF MICHIGAN

92ND LEGISLATURE

REGULAR SESSION OF 2004

Introduced by Reps. Acciavatti, Hummel, Milosch, Garfield, LaJoy, Drolet, Amos, Sheltrown, Tabor, Taub, Nofs, Pappageorge, Casperson, DeRoche, Hune, Caswell, Bisbee, Nitz, Gaffney, Emmons, Bradstreet, Rocca, Farhat, Pastor, Stahl, DeRossett, Vander Veen, Voorhees, Spade, Stewart, Minore, Zelenko, Jamnick, Richardville, Kooiman, Hager, Newell, Howell, Shackleton, Adamini, Accavitti, Stakoe, Gleason, Robertson, Shaffer, Ward, Huizenga, Elkins, Moolenaar, Palsrok and Gillard

ENROLLED HOUSE BILL No. 5427

AN ACT to amend 1927 PA 372, entitled "An act to regulate and license the selling, purchasing, possessing, and carrying of certain firearms and gas ejecting devices; to prohibit the buying, selling, or carrying of certain firearms and gas ejecting devices without a license or other authorization; to provide for the forfeiture of firearms under certain circumstances; to provide for penalties and remedies; to provide immunity from civil liability under certain circumstances; to prescribe the powers and duties of certain state and local agencies; to prohibit certain conduct against individuals who apply for or receive a license to carry a concealed pistol; to make appropriations; to prescribe certain conditions for the appropriations; and to repeal all acts and parts of acts inconsistent with this act," by amending section12 (MCL 28.432), as amended by 2000 PA 381.

The People of the State of Michigan enact:

Sec. 12. (1) Sections 2 and 9 do not apply to any of the following:

(a) A police or correctional agency of the United States or of this state or any subdivision of this state.

(b) The United States army, air force, navy, or marine corps.

(c) An organization authorized by law to purchase or receive weapons from the United States or from this state.

(d) The national guard, armed forces reserves, or other duly authorized military organization.

(e) A member of an entity or organization described in subdivisions (a) to (d) for a pistol while engaged in the course of his or her duties with that entity or while going to or returning from those duties.

(f) A United States citizen holding a license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by another state.

(g) The regular and ordinary transportation of a pistol as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms or a licensed dealer.

(h) Purchasing, owning, carrying, possessing, using, or transporting an antique firearm. As used in this subdivision, "antique firearm" means that term as defined in section 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.231a.

(2) The amendatory act that added subdivision (h) shall be known and may be cited as the "Janet Kukuk act".

This act is ordered to take immediate effect.

Clerk of the House of Representatives

Secretary of the Senate

Approved

Governor

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2005-2006/publicact/htm/2006-PA-0075.htm

Act No. 75

Public Acts of 2006

Approved by the Governor

March 16, 2006

Filed with the Secretary of State

March 23, 2006

EFFECTIVE DATE: July 1, 2006

STATE OF MICHIGAN

93RD LEGISLATURE

REGULAR SESSION OF 2006

Introduced by Reps. Jones, LaJoy, Baxter, Stewart, Elsenheimer, Rocca, Robertson, Sheltrown, Steil, Garfield, Acciavatti, Pearce, Wenke, Palsrok, Hummel, Hansen, Gosselin, Booher, Polidori, Stahl, Cushingberry, Anderson, Hune, Nofs, Farhat, Vander Veen, Ball and Moolenaar

ENROLLED HOUSE BILL No. 4642

AN ACT to amend 1927 PA 372, entitled "An act to regulate and license the selling, purchasing, possessing, and carrying of certain firearms and gas ejecting devices; to prohibit the buying, selling, or carrying of certain firearms and gas ejecting devices without a license or other authorization; to provide for the forfeiture of firearms under certain circumstances; to provide for penalties and remedies; to provide immunity from civil liability under certain circumstances; to prescribe the powers and duties of certain state and local agencies; to prohibit certain conduct against individuals who apply for or receive a license to carry a concealed pistol; to make appropriations; to prescribe certain conditions for the appropriations; and to repeal all acts and parts of acts inconsistent with this act," by amending section12 (MCL 28.432), as amended by 2004 PA 99.

The People of the State of Michigan enact:

Sec. 12. (1) Sections 2 and 9 do not apply to any of the following:

(a) A police or correctional agency of the United States or of this state or any subdivision of this state.

(b) The United States army, air force, navy, or marine corps.

(c) An organization authorized by law to purchase or receive weapons from the United States or from this state.

(d) The national guard, armed forces reserves, or other duly authorized military organization.

(e) A member of an entity or organization described in subdivisions (a) to (d) for a pistol while engaged in the course of his or her duties with that entity or while going to or returning from those duties.

(f) A United States citizen holding a license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by another state.

(g) The regular and ordinary transportation of a pistol as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms or a licensed dealer.

(h) Purchasing, owning, carrying, possessing, using, or transporting an antique firearm. As used in this subdivision, "antique firearm" means that term as defined in section 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.231a.

(i) An individual carrying, possessing, using, or transporting a pistol belonging to another individual, if the other individual's pistol is properly licensed and inspected under this act and the individual carrying, possessing, using, or transporting the pistol has obtained a license under section 5b to carry a concealed pistol.

(2) The amendatory act that added subdivision (h) shall be known and may be cited as the "Janet Kukuk act".

Enacting section 1. This amendatory act takes effect July 1, 2006.


This act is ordered to take immediate effect.

Clerk of the House of Representatives

Secretary of the Senate

Approved

Governor

 

[arcticap]

Thank you for clarifying my mistake.
I think that I was confused by the fact that the "1" didn't look like the letter "i" as quoted in the enacting language of the passed bill:

Enacting section 1. This amendatory act takes effect July 1, 2006.

 

[EmGeeGeorge]

havent had a problem with Dixie, Track of the Wolf or Cheaper than dirt in such a respect...