Michigan introduces house bill to allow CCW in schools

[erik the bold]

Searched around and didn't see this posted yet......

Bill could permit teachers to carry concealed weapons

Teachers, other school administrators could carry concealed weapon on school grounds

LANSING (WJRT) - (09/10/07)--Guns in the classroom could soon be a reality if one Michigan lawmaker has his way.

Republican State Rep. David Agema from the Grand Rapids area has introduced legislation that would allow teachers and other school administrators to carry a concealed weapon on school grounds.

Agema says he understands this is a controversial piece of legislation. But he says kids need to be kept safe on school grounds.

All schools in Michigan are weapon-free zones. There are no guns allowed for students, teachers or anyone on school grounds.

In recent years there have been a number of deadly school shootings at schools across the country.

At least one Michigan lawmaker says if teachers and administrators were armed or had access to a concealed weapon at school the incidents of school shootings will decline.

The bill allows for a teacher, administrator or other employee of a school to carry a concealed weapon.

It's not a mandate, but it provides an option for school districts who choose to have someone armed on the premises.

The state's largest teachers union offered the following statement on the legislation: "We are firmly against this House bill that will allow concealed weapons in the schools.

"We need weapon-free schools to keep to keep our schools safe."

Full information on the bill is available here

Michigan folks, time to write, call, and e-mail

 

[fletcher]

"We need weapon-free schools to keep to keep our schools safe."

Typical. Just yesterday a fight broke out at a local school where 42 squad cars responded (BIG fight), 8 arrests were made, one person sent to the hospital, and they made a point to mention that not a single weapon was found in the area. Weapon free zone is a victim zone, nothing more, nothing less.

The bill allows for a teacher, administrator or other employee of a school to carry a concealed weapon.

I would love to see that modified to also allow parents or other adults to carry on the premises.

I hope it passes.

 

[erik the bold]

I would love to see that modified to also allow parents or other adults to carry on the premises.

There is another bill introduced a few months ago (I believe) that addresses that issue. Was posted here somewhere, but I don't have time to look right now...

 

[Kevin108]

Go Michigan! Set precedent! We all need this!

 

[Fisherman_48768]

Ain't no way this will ever get signed into law we have a Dem controlled state house and senate with a Dem Governor originally from Canada plus the MEA being against it. Never mind what the people want or need.

 

[scubie02]

as someone who works in education, it does not surprise me at all that the union opposed it. Education sadly is overly infested with anti-gun types. It's a sad minority of us who take a pro-gun stance. Sometimes I think of getting out, but then there wouldn't be ANYONE trying to counter the indoctrination...

 

[Correia]

Be sure to point out that we have CCW in schools in Utah, and have had zero problems.

Some of you Michinganders should start a thread in Activism, and start hammering your reps.

Democrats or not, you need to get the people of your state riled up about this. Ask them why Utah loves their children more than Michigan loves theirs.

The clock is ticking. It is only a matter of time before we have our own Beslan. Virginia Tech is a perfect example of what happens, and it is still fresh in people's minds.

Go hammer your reps. Bug your friends to hammer theirs.

I don't know how your state legislature is set up, but this should have to go through a committee meeting. If they're open to the public, PACK that room. Fill the halls with gun owners and parents who don't want their kids unprotected.

 

[saltpepperPA]

As a teacher of high school students, I'm in a toss up. I believe that it is an effective form of protection and do not believe it should be illegal to carry it with you somewhere that you are sending the majority of your day. But, I as a teacher, I can see where it is dangerous to have in a school of high school students. They are not are brave kids that could go to grab it if noticed.

However, even making it legal, you would not need to carry it, there is just that 'threat' that you could possibly be carrying.

 

[LoneStranger]

SaltPepperPA, would you please rewrite your statement so as to make it more understandable. Particuarly the last sentence.

Thank You

 

[saltpepperPA]

LoneStranger, I suppose my thoughts were just blurted out in that.

If you are carrying a handgun for protection, it does not make much sense to be banned from carrying it for the majority of your day.

Unfortunatly I can also see how having a handgun in school could be a danger to the students (they can be very ballsy and could reach for it).

If the law was changed, making it legal, it could be a deterrent, the "threat" of having a teacher/administrator armed at school may keep people from attempting the unthinkable.

Hope that clears things up for you.

 

[erik the bold]

Unfortunatly I can also see how having a handgun in school could be a danger to the students (they can be very ballsy and could reach for it).

If it is concealed, how would they know where to grab

 

[Clipper]

Saltpepper, has it occured to you yet that a concealed weapon is CONCEALED?? I don't think ballsiness causes X-ray vision, so how do these students know where to grab these weapons?

 

[saltpepperPA]

Clipper, I agree with your points, and stand on the edge of this issue. I think you may take my uncertainty as an affirmitive NO!

What I am saying is: Yes, it is a CONCEALED weapon, and in all perfect circumstances, it should not be seen. But, perfect circumstances never occur. This is what needs to be considered, and this is what is keeping me on the fence about this issue. There can be accidental views, maybe a curious student notices an out of place crease... these are stretches because it has not occured. This is simply how I feel and not an attack on how you feel.

 

[exar]

I agree that CCW should be allowed. But I also know that piece better be very well concealed. Kids are very clever.

 

[saltpepperPA]

Thank you exar for the support.

 

[bsf]

Since the MEA opposes it, I think a different bill should be introduced proposing that schools be removed from the “victim disarmament” zone list for all CPL holders who do not belong to the MEA.

Obviously that is a jab at the MEA, of which I am not a fan. To be honest, I do not care if this bill gains traction or not because I have no kids in school and I am not a teacher or school administrator. I have contacted my elected reps previously. They do not care what I think.

Yes, there was a bill introduced previously to get rid of "gun free" zones for CPL holders. It is/was HB 4759; introduced by Rep. Daniel Acciavatti w/ Reps. Hoogendyk, Horn, Stahl, Opsommer, Meltzer and Meekhof as Co-Sponsors. It went no where.

 

[jefnvk]

I think a different bill should be introduced proposing that schools be removed from the “victim disarmament” zone list for all CPL holders who do not belong to the MEA.

I do believe there is another bill out there removing restrictions on where concealed weapons can be carried.

 

[Geno]

As a teacher of high school students, I'm in a toss up. I believe that it is an effective form of protection and do not believe it should be illegal to carry it with you somewhere that you are sending the majority of your day. But, I as a teacher, I can see where it is dangerous to have in a school of high school students. They are not are brave kids that could go to grab it if noticed.

However, even making it legal, you would not need to carry it, there is just that 'threat' that you could possibly be carrying.

What? Please edit. Your message is lost in the clutter.

 

[cambeul41]

Part of a longer lertter I sent to all Michigan representatives

"Please support, preferably by cosponsoring, Representative Daniel Acciavatti’s HB 4759 to eliminate the disarmed victim zones from Michigan’s concealed carry laws."

 

[.cheese.]

Be sure to point out that we have CCW in schools in Utah, and have had zero problems.

IMO - That will be something to point out in the future. There is too little data to be able to use it as a current example.

It's like saying, # economic policy was put into effect on one day, and the stock market went up the same day- therefore the policy is good for the economy.

Or even better: "Since making a certain safety feature available on all newly purchased cars a week ago, auto accident related deaths and injuries have not changed over the same period, therefore we can assume if nothing else, the safety feature poses no additional risk to drivers."

It basically comes down to being an "unrepresentative sample" logical flaw

I'm not saying that ccw in schools isn't good.... I'm just saying that the Utah example can't yet be used to our advantage if we want to maintain credibility.

.cheese. - who has been practicing too much for the LSAT lately.

 

[Blackbeard]

Here's your basic talking point:

Weapon-free schools are not safe.

Hammer it home!

 

[saltpepperPA]

The thing is Blackbeard that it cannot be that cut and dry. I would be curious to see how the CCW schools in Utah work over time. That may be the only leverage in getting any change.

 

[Erebus]

The thing is Blackbeard that it cannot be that cut and dry. I would be curious to see how the CCW schools in Utah work over time. That may be the only leverage in getting any change.

Agreed, but as cheese said it hasn't been long enough to really judge if it has had an effect. I would have to think that it would take at least 10 years after the law was in place to see if UT has a drop in violent crime in schools vs any incidents with a teachers CCW. School shootings are still so rare that no shootings in 10 years may tell you nothing at all as the number that occur in any one state is very small. Unless someone actually stops an attack(God forbid one even occurs) it will be difficult to show it is effective. SHowing it is not creating a problem would be easier.

 

[Correia]

Ain't gonna work that way. Look at the states that still don't have any CCW. What are the anti arguments? There's gonna be blood in the streets, and nonsense like that, over and over.

They don't care what the facts are, at all. You've got 40+ states with some sort of CCW, and have had it for years, and still they ignore that data.

You need to kick them in the gut. Make it visceral. How long Utah has had it is irrelevant. It is the fact we have it. Our teachers are armed if they choose to be, and they can fight back, rather than hide under their desks and pray to God that they won't be the next to die. Our teachers have the option to defend their charges. Yours don't. Stick that to your legislatures.

Facts are great. But how many years do we need to have CCW in schools to gather data? School shootings are rare. 49 states haven't had a Virginia Tech massacre, so what does that data point tell you. We've actually had CCW in schools for a very long time, for parents and visitors, and it has only been in the last two-three years that we've beat the school districts up until they let the teachers carry without being fired.

And we got CCW in schools without relying on other place's data. We got it because we have some awesome state reps that stick to their guns, and some really hard core activists that kept pushing it.

Now is the time to strike. We've got serious presidential candidates that are suggesting there should have been CCW allowed in colleges because of VT. That is astounding if you think about it. The culture war is changing, and we need to push hard.

 

[bsf]

The author of the bill was on Off the Record Friday. I just got around to watching the episode on the net.

http://www.wkar.org/offtherecord/program.php?num=3711

~15:50 into the episode they begin to discuss the bill.

OT
I love that show and wish I could carry a Tim Skubick around with me to interrogate people when I need answers, am short on time, and am not allowed to utilize torture.