Michigan introduces house bill to allow CCW in schools

[Prince Yamato]

There can be accidental views, maybe a curious student notices an out of place crease... these are stretches because it has not occured.

Who cares? All the better to scare the crap out of the ones that might try and do something wrong: "Uh oh, you better not mess with Mr. Sanderson, he carries a .45 on him".

 

[BridgeWalker]

FYI, I just posted a related thread in the "general discussions" forum.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

I'm from MI and I am near the 'zoo (San Fransisco of the Midwest) and all I have heard is negativity my thoughts are more armed cops, a quick reaction plan (none of this "wait for backup"from the cops, go in and take out the threat that's what we pay you for),and training on par with air marshals, but I am biased, half the teachers I know are not qualified to look at a picture of a pistol let alone carry one, but these are my thoughts.

 

[bsf]

…..my thoughts are more armed cops, a quick reaction plan (none of this "wait for backup"from the cops, go in and take out the threat that's what we pay you for),and training on par with air marshals…

I am not in favor of more cops. I want fewer cops.

but I am biased, half the teachers I know are not qualified to look at a picture of a pistol let alone carry one, but these are my thoughts.

If education was also free market, and parents were not apathetic or incompetent, market forces would address that issue real quick as the market would shift business away from schools with dangerous teachers.

 

[woodybrighton]

from the UK so possibly ignore
don't like the us access to weapons idea (but its a fact and short of a miracle not going to disarm the bad guys)
having gun free zones unless there behind a big fence with armed guards and searches on anyone entering.

WHAT EXACTLY IS THE POINT

if its to deter a bad guy intent on mayhem. he's either a criminal so not going to obey the law ors he's deluded so not going to obey the law

I was planning to run round the school shooting people at random but wait its a gun free zone gosh thats my murderous rampage stopped in its tracks
if that works how about a law outlawing terrorism and bad people doing bad things?

 

[bsf]

WHAT EXACTLY IS THE POINT

if its to deter a bad guy intent on mayhem. he's either a criminal so not going to obey the law ors he's deluded so not going to obey the law

The point is to kill the bad guy(s). Is that clear enough for you? Dead bad guys cannot take innocent lives.

 

[sithanas]

If education was also free market, and parents were not apathetic or incompetent, market forces would address that issue real quick as the market would shift business away from schools with dangerous teachers.

Free markets for education create a market failure because a good education is undervalued in the market, but that's besides the point.


My mother is a teacher in an adult ed program and she's been working on getting her private investigator's license to go with her CPL so she can carry in her classroom. (We're talking about the "sentenced to school" kind of adult ed, not ligitimate adults who want to learn.) This would be great - it'd save her a $10,000 bond and two years of PI work.

 

[bsf]

If education was also free market, and parents were not apathetic or incompetent, market forces would address that issue real quick as the market would shift business away from schools with dangerous teachers.

Free markets for education create a market failure because a good education is undervalued in the market, but that's besides the point.

It does not really seem like you are even addressing my comment. My statement is quite narrow, and I will stand by it. In fact, I feel even broadened it is true: “If parents were not apathetic or incompetent, they would shift business away from schools with dangerous teachers.”

 

[woodybrighton]

sorry you misunderstood bsf

In an armed society which the US is
having a gun free zone thats not got a fence round it and patrolled by rough men prepared to do violence to protect those inside.
ITS JUST A TARGET ZONE

I don't think allowing teachers to carry a concealed firearm is a particularly good idea but its better than doing nothing

security guards are all very well but how many schools are going to afford them?
and if somebody's deranged enough to go on a killing spree wouldn't they be the first targets

 

[bsf]

I don't think allowing teachers to carry a concealed firearm is a particularly good idea but its better than doing nothing

I think it would work if parents demanded competency on the part of the teachers. Involved, competent parents who are willing to pull their children out of unsafe environments would go a long ways towards ensuring teachers who could make a difference armed were indeed trained and armed. That being said, anyone who owns a weapon ostensibly for self defense is a fool if he or she does not have some training in the defensive use of that weapon.

 

[Prince Yamato]

I think teachers with guns are a great idea. I wouldn't worry about teachers going crazy with the guns. Any questions as to when you can shoot will most likely be defined in the next faculty meeting. Sure, some teachers are nutty, but there are plenty who are not, who would legitimately look out for their students lives. Pass this law. Why the hell would a TEACHER oppose a law designed to allow them to protect THEMSELVES?

 

[Gunnerpalace]

I am sure a lot are for it it's the union though that is killing it, the main point I was trying to get through is yeah I support it but they need to be trained on Par with air marshals.

 

[bsf]

I am sure a lot are for it it's the union though that is killing it, the main point I was trying to get through is yeah I support it but they need to be trained on Par with air marshals.

I disagree. I am only minimally familiar w/ standards for Air Marshalls, but I think the standards are very, very high. Something to aspire for, yes, but as a requirement, I think that is asking too much.

 

[Prince Yamato]

I support it but they need to be trained on Par with air marshals.

In about a year, I should have a permanent faculty position at a university. Why should I have to be trained like an air marshal to carry a gun on campus? I already have a CCW. I haven't shot anybody. I can put hundreds of rounds through the center of mass of a human silhouetted target at 15 yards. I'm pretty sure that's all I'd need to do if my classroom was attacked. What other training do you need?

1. See threat
2. Point gun at threat
3. Neutralize threat.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

Campuses are one thing if you got em' pack em' (with CCW) the K-12 is another story, it is just my opinion.

 

[Geno]

PY:

Because in many schools, for example in Michigan, there is horrid over-crowding. In the first school where I was high school principal, we had 1 hallway...a straight line about 100 yards long, and 373 students. So, a bad guy comes in, you draw...you hit the target. But, how many were in the line of fire in that hallway?

I faced exact this situation as I worked with the State Police to ward off a Columbine situation. The State Police wanted me to carry. I didn't dare. The over-crowding was horrid. You could not hardly pass through the hall without getting knocked from one side to another it was so tight. Public schools aren't like malls.

I am all for carry in schools, but I want to see the exact qualifying shooting ability as a police officer. If the person can't consistently hit X, leave it home, or leave it in the car.

JMPO

 

[Fisherman_48768]

With the methods now being employed to protect the schools being such a failure it's time to put some guns in the schools. Isreal did and it stopped a bunch of crap from happening to their kids and teachers. Who do you arm? Teachers and administrators that volunteer for the training and meet the requirements.

 

[MudPuppy]

I like it, arm yourselves for the children.

Comin' home to roost.