Michigan law; school property

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I am going to start taking some more college courses this spring, and it will be my first semester since I got my CCW. I know that carrying inside a school is against the law. But would it be legal to lock my pistol in a lockbox, in the trunk of the vehicle, and have the vehicle be in a school parking lot? Does the law prohibit the pistol being on any property that is the school's in any form? I know there is a provision in the law for CCWers who are dropping off and picking kids up from school. They can have their weapons on them as long as they don't leave the vehicle.

There aren't any non-school parking lots nearby where I can park instead, and I don't fancy just leaving my weapon at home all day just because I will be at school for some of it. Would the pistol really be considered a "concealed pistol" if unloaded an locked in the trunk? I know that you do not need a CCW to transport a pistol if it is in that condition as well. Does this mean the pistol is no longer a "concealed pistol" and thus pistol free zones don't apply?

I went to MCRGO and found this Q and A under the "Ask a lawyer" section

Q: I work for a large international company. The company has a "no weapons on site" policy, which they extend to the parking lot. In light of the recent MCRGO email stating that "parking lots of pistol-free zones are not considered pistol-free zones", does my employer have an enforceable policy for someone with a CPL who secures their pistol in their vehicle while at work? If not, how would one approach them about the issue?
A: The pistol-free zones are established by statute. Essentially, they mean that your CPL is void in those areas. The legislature decided to exempt parking lots so that you can lawfully store your pistol in your car (securely) when you go into one of the places on the list, such as a hospital, without having to go all the way back home and lock your gun in your safe before returning. In addition to the pistol-free zones, any private entity (person or corporation) who owns or controls real estate, has the right to say who has pistols on that property. If the corporation has a blanket policy against all weapons "on site," that can be reasonably interpreted to mean the parking lot. It is certainly within the corporation's authority to ban any person or thing from its property, including the parking lots. This is a seperate issue from the pistol-free zones listed in the Michigan statute.

What are they referring to with "The legislature decided to exempt parking lots so that you can lawfully store your pistol in your car (securely) when you go into one of the places on the list, such as a hospital, without having to go all the way back home and lock your gun in your safe before returning."? Does anyone know of the actual michigan law this is talking about? Does it apply to school parking lots?

 

[Johannes_Paulsen]

You are asking a serious legal question. If you want a serious legal answer, I strongly suggest that you take a few hundred dollars and hire an experienced criminal defense attorney in Michigan (Ann Arbor, preferably) to provide you with advice on the subject. Anything you get online is just as likely to be from, pardon the expression, Armchair Barristers and Dep'ty Dawgs. It will be worth it for your own peace of mind, if nothing else, and it will also be nice to have an attorney familiar with you that you can contact in case you DO run into any issues while carrying.

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

Cop, not a lawyer:


You're good. MCL 28.425o states:

(1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

[snip snip]

(h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(xd...eg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-28-425o

So don't take it into a dorm or classroom.

Also, the parking-lot exception you refer to (which is also in MCL 28.425o) applies only to parents and guardians in their vehicles while picking up or dropping of their kids. It is not a blanket exception to carrying in parking lots.

 

[YZR]

I think you want to look further. There is a caveat that says "U of M, MSU and Wayne State buildings and campus (i.e. parking lots) are off limits too, even for a licensed CPL holder".

 

[hanno]

The statute:

"28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation.

Sec. 5o.

(1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, “school” and “school property” mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

(b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.

(c) A sports arena or stadium.

(d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision shall not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that “This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons”. The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but shall not be required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.

(e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

(f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

(g) A hospital.

(h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.

(2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated pursuant to the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, the Initiated Law of 1996, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.

(3) As used in subsection (1), “premises” does not include parking areas of the places identified under subsection (1).

(4) Subsection (1) does not apply to any of the following:

(a) An individual licensed under this act who is a retired police officer or retired law enforcement officer. The concealed weapon licensing board may require a letter from the law enforcement agency stating that the retired police officer or law enforcement officer retired in good standing.

(b) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is employed or contracted by an entity described under subsection (1) to provide security services and is required by his or her employer or the terms of a contract to carry a concealed firearm on the premises of the employing or contracting entity.

(c) An individual who is licensed as a private investigator or private detective under the private detective license act, 1965 PA 285, MCL 338.821 to 338.851.

(d) Any of the following who is licensed under this act while on duty and in the course of his or her employment:

(i) A corrections officer of a county sheriff's department.

(ii) A motor carrier officer or capitol security officer of the department of state police.

(iii) A member of a sheriff's posse.

(iv) An auxiliary officer or reserve officer of a police or sheriff's department.

(v) A parole or probation officer of the department of corrections.

(5) An individual who violates this section is responsible for a state civil infraction or guilty of a crime as follows:

(a) Except as provided in subdivisions (b) and (c), the individual is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $500.00. The court shall order the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol suspended for 6 months.

(b) For a second violation, the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $1,000.00. The court shall order the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol revoked.

(c) For a third or subsequent violation, the individual is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both. The court shall order the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol revoked.


History: Add. 2000, Act 381, Eff. July 1, 2001 ;-- Am. 2002, Act 719, Eff. July 1, 2003
Popular Name: CCW
Popular Name: Concealed Weapons
Popular Name: Right to Carry
Popular Name: Shall Issue

© 2007 Legislative Council, State of Michigan"

 

[hanno]

From the Michigan State Police:

Pistol Free Areas

Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:



1.
Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian

2.
Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.

3.
Sports arena or stadium

4.
A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises

5.
Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons

6.
An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more

7.
A hospital

8.
A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

9.
A Casino

"Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above in 1 through 8.

A pistol is subject to immediate seizure if the CCW permit holder is carrying a pistol in a "pistol free" area. The following penalties may also be imposed:

* First offense: State Civil Infraction, $500 fine, CCW permit suspended 6 months
* Second offense: 90-day misdemeanor, $1000 fine, CCW permit revoked
* Third and subsequent offenses: 4-year felony, $5000 fine, CCW permit revoked

Furthermore, effective March 29, 2001, per Administrative Order 2001-1 of the Michigan Supreme Court:

*
"Weapons are not permitted in any courtroom, office, or other space used for official court business or by judicial employees unless the chief judge or other person designated by the chief judge has given prior approval consistent with the court's written policy."

http://michigan.gov/msp/1,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10947--,00.html

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

Well, there ya go.

 

[Trebor]

What college or University? It makes a huge difference.

U of M, MSU, and WSU, have special powers granted to them under the state constituion. They get to make their own rules and, I believe, all three have essentially banned firearms from campus, not just in dorms and classrooms.

They can do this because the Michigan Firearms Preemption Law does not cover them. They aren't a "local municipality" for purposes of that law. But, they can legally write their own rules that have the force of law.

There were a couple excellent discussions on this topic over at www.mgouc.com Look for the Legal section.

 

[hanno]

U of M, MSU, and WSU, have special powers granted to them under the state constituion. They get to make their own rules and, I believe, all three have essentially banned firearms from campus, not just in dorms and classrooms.

They can do this because the Michigan Firearms Preemption Law does not cover them. They aren't a "local municipality" for purposes of that law. But, they can legally write their own rules that have the force of law.

To the best of my knowledge, this issue isn't really settled as a matter of law. MSU and U of M do indeed have ordinances that prohibit possession of firearms on campus (Wayne may also have one, I haven't checked) but whether or not these ordinances really supersede state law is another matter. I discussed this with one of the gurus at the Office of the Attorney General, and at present, there doesn't seem to be a clear answer to this situation. I have contacted my state senator to request a formal AG Opinion regarding this matter.