trooper
Member
Tough but true. I'm not going to start a debate with someone who most certainly won't listen to me, either.
Regards,
Trooper
Regards,
Trooper
MicroBalrog vs. Tom Mauser: The Battle Rages On
- Thread starter MicroBalrog
- Start date
- Status
semf
member
After going to his web site I have amended my position. While his grief is his private business, his public stance makes him fair game.
Here's my e-mail to him
I have just visited your site and reviewed your counters to pro gun arguments, most of which I did not agree with.
However I would like to know your argument against the fact that in states where concealed carry is legal and where gun restrictions are more tolerant towards gun owners crime rates are going down. There are many examples of this.
In the case of your son's death, The same scenario stared to unfold in Pearl Mississippi, until the principle retrieved his own gun to end the encounter. I have to wonder how the Columbine incident would have played out if a responsible adult had immediate access to a firearm.
Here's my e-mail to him
I have just visited your site and reviewed your counters to pro gun arguments, most of which I did not agree with.
However I would like to know your argument against the fact that in states where concealed carry is legal and where gun restrictions are more tolerant towards gun owners crime rates are going down. There are many examples of this.
In the case of your son's death, The same scenario stared to unfold in Pearl Mississippi, until the principle retrieved his own gun to end the encounter. I have to wonder how the Columbine incident would have played out if a responsible adult had immediate access to a firearm.
Like I said, I would be shocked if anyone changed his mind through correspondence. You made a lot of cogent points, but they're all irrelevant when dealing with this guy, because he doesn't care. So how well you did depends on whether writing him made you feel any better.
semf
member
That's pretty much what it was about
ojibweindian
Member
Tam
You're much nicer about it than I would be. Believe me when I say that what I would probably write to him would make my boot camp C.C.'s blush.
I'll concentrate on preaching to the fence-sitters as I have absolutely no patience or compassion for anti's.
You're much nicer about it than I would be. Believe me when I say that what I would probably write to him would make my boot camp C.C.'s blush.
I'll concentrate on preaching to the fence-sitters as I have absolutely no patience or compassion for anti's.
MicroBalrog
member
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Mauser
To: Boris Karpa
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: WHAT?
You see no evidence that gun control works?!? You need only look at the 11,000 gun murders in the US vs. 100 in the UK, 200 in Canada, 50 in Japan, 100 in Germany, etc etc etc. I'm sorry that you're too blind to see. My son is dead because of the Gun Free Schools Act? How despicable a statement. Your letter didn't address most of my questions and points, Mr. Karpa, so don't tell me I didn't address yours. Don't bother writing back. Like I said, I'll spend my time with my kids and worshiping God. Do you have kids to spend time with? And what do you worship?
From: Tom Mauser
To: Boris Karpa
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: WHAT?
You see no evidence that gun control works?!? You need only look at the 11,000 gun murders in the US vs. 100 in the UK, 200 in Canada, 50 in Japan, 100 in Germany, etc etc etc. I'm sorry that you're too blind to see. My son is dead because of the Gun Free Schools Act? How despicable a statement. Your letter didn't address most of my questions and points, Mr. Karpa, so don't tell me I didn't address yours. Don't bother writing back. Like I said, I'll spend my time with my kids and worshiping God. Do you have kids to spend time with? And what do you worship?
MicroBalrog
member
My response
No. The mere comparison of Nation A vs. Nation B vs. Nation C is not sufficient proof that anything works/doesn't work. (Sweden has DOUBLE the US murder rate, so?).
Back in the early 20th century most Europe had absolutely no gun control - and it still had less murders than America. Heck, you could buy grenades over the counter in Germany and Britain, and both these countries had less murder and violence than they have now, does that prove anything at all? You could buy machineguns and sawed-offs in Russia at that time, and you'd be safer in Moscow 1904 than in Moscow 1997, so?
I don't worship anything, I'm an agnostic, but if I were religious, I'd be a National-Orthodox Jew. No, I currently don't have children, so?
No. The mere comparison of Nation A vs. Nation B vs. Nation C is not sufficient proof that anything works/doesn't work. (Sweden has DOUBLE the US murder rate, so?).
Back in the early 20th century most Europe had absolutely no gun control - and it still had less murders than America. Heck, you could buy grenades over the counter in Germany and Britain, and both these countries had less murder and violence than they have now, does that prove anything at all? You could buy machineguns and sawed-offs in Russia at that time, and you'd be safer in Moscow 1904 than in Moscow 1997, so?
I don't worship anything, I'm an agnostic, but if I were religious, I'd be a National-Orthodox Jew. No, I currently don't have children, so?
oldfart
Member
"There are none so blind as those who WILL not see."
Tom Mauser is a lost cause. He wears his dead child on his sleeve as an emblem. While it is supposed to signify his sorrow, in reality, it merely shows his need for attention. Prior to Columbine, Tom Mauser was a nobody. Now, thanks to the blood of his child, people listen to him and some even think of him as a martyr. He isn't worth disrespect, let alone civil discourse.
Tom Mauser is a lost cause. He wears his dead child on his sleeve as an emblem. While it is supposed to signify his sorrow, in reality, it merely shows his need for attention. Prior to Columbine, Tom Mauser was a nobody. Now, thanks to the blood of his child, people listen to him and some even think of him as a martyr. He isn't worth disrespect, let alone civil discourse.
agricola
Member
not one to rain on someones parade but wouldnt this be better done on one thread and stickified (if the mods concur), or inviting Mauser to THR?
MicroBalrog
member
Methinks inviting him here would culminate in extremely non-Highroadish antics on behalf some people on both sides. Bad mojo.
oldfart
Member
Did anyone even know Tom Mauser existed before Columbine? How many newspapers quoted Sarah Brady before President Regan got shot? Did Carolyn McCarthy amount to anything before her husband was killed?
These people all share something besides having relatives who were shot. They're all 'featherless vultures' in that they feed on death and misery. I'm reminded of stories I heard of Hitler enjoying the torture and killing of personal enemies.
I will not write to him. He does not deserve that much of my time or attention. He's already gotten too much of both.
These people all share something besides having relatives who were shot. They're all 'featherless vultures' in that they feed on death and misery. I'm reminded of stories I heard of Hitler enjoying the torture and killing of personal enemies.
I will not write to him. He does not deserve that much of my time or attention. He's already gotten too much of both.
A better example from Europe would be the slaughter of the disarmed Muslims in Bosnia. Roundabout 100,000 people slaughtered.
Or you could go to Rwanda and read the gun control laws which read quite like those of New York. 103 days in the spring of 1994 and 800,000 Tutsis are slaughtered by government-backed Hutus as UN and US troops looked on.
Rick
Or you could go to Rwanda and read the gun control laws which read quite like those of New York. 103 days in the spring of 1994 and 800,000 Tutsis are slaughtered by government-backed Hutus as UN and US troops looked on.
Rick
I started a thread back on the Firing Line questioning Tom Mauser's credibility.
As part of his group's agenda to ban "assault weapons," he claimed that his son was killed by one (the Tec-9), even though official reports say otherwise.
Either Mauser is lying, or the official reports are wrong. I still don't know which is the truth.
Later on in that thread, I pointed out another instance where Mr. Mauser made that claim:
As part of his group's agenda to ban "assault weapons," he claimed that his son was killed by one (the Tec-9), even though official reports say otherwise.
Either Mauser is lying, or the official reports are wrong. I still don't know which is the truth.
Later on in that thread, I pointed out another instance where Mr. Mauser made that claim:
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Tom Mauser was the director of the Transit and Rail Unit for the Colorado Department of Transportaion, with a salary of $70,000 in 1999. This is what he was paid by SAFE Colorado when he took a leave of absence to become a full time lobbyist for a year. He has since been promoted to Intermodal Planning Manager. He was certainly not a household name before his son was murdered, but it wouldn't surprise me if he was well known within certain government circles before.
Jim Brady, of course, was the press secretary for President Ronald Reagan. I believe the Brady's were a popular couple in Washington DC and Republican social circles at the time.
I have no idea what Carolyn McCarthy did before her husband was killed in the 1993 Long Island rail shootings.
ojibweindian
Member
Micro's right. Reallllllly bad mojo for him to come over.
Glock Glockler
Member
For Tom Mauser to come here is to engage in a session of mental masturbation. You will not convert him, and you might only inspire him to work even harder in promoting his filth.
If you want to actually promote RKBA, instead of talking about RKBA, you'll take a newbie shooting, let them have a good time, and plant some seeds of freedom. I think I'm pretty hardcore RKBA activist now, but I was not active until I had been bitten by the shooting bug. Take someone shooting, pray it will bite them, and continue the mission.
If you want to actually promote RKBA, instead of talking about RKBA, you'll take a newbie shooting, let them have a good time, and plant some seeds of freedom. I think I'm pretty hardcore RKBA activist now, but I was not active until I had been bitten by the shooting bug. Take someone shooting, pray it will bite them, and continue the mission.
When there were near zero gun laws in both America and Great Britain in 1900, both countries had homicide rates at or just under 1 per 100,000.
Add Alcohol Prohibition (the original War on Drugs) in the 1920s and we see organized crime taking a foothold in this country, along with the increase in homicides.
Wright and Rossi and other researchers found that 75 percent of homicides were committed by adult felons (killing other felons 71% of the time). Most of the remainder were committed by like-minded juvenile offenders.
The lion's share of our homicide rate comes from the War On SomeDrugs, and smuggling of people through our southern border.
Add Alcohol Prohibition (the original War on Drugs) in the 1920s and we see organized crime taking a foothold in this country, along with the increase in homicides.
Wright and Rossi and other researchers found that 75 percent of homicides were committed by adult felons (killing other felons 71% of the time). Most of the remainder were committed by like-minded juvenile offenders.
The lion's share of our homicide rate comes from the War On SomeDrugs, and smuggling of people through our southern border.
Billll
Member
Right after Columbine, Mr. Mauser was a popular fixture around here at the anti-gun rallies, MMM, Physicians for Social Responsibility, SAFE Colorado, etc. Several wannabe pols also appeared along sid him to take a position, and size Tom up, to see if any of them could ride into public office on his back. Most of them noticed the vocal showing of gunnies at his outings, and decided that this horse wouldn't make it all the way to the statehouse, much less Washington.
Mauser pushes anti-gun and other nanny-state type scocial causes in and around his neighborhood, and as such, bears watching. As of right now, he's on the wrong side of history. With a bit of dilligence, we'll keep him there.
Sympathy for the loss he suffered, of course, but his reaction reminds me of a Mark Twain observation on Southern justice in 1850. I don't have the exact quote, but it's from "Letters from the Earth" I believe, and suggests that, a (minor) crime having been committed, and the guilty culpret being unfindable, the possee would, at minimum, find and lynch a black man.
Mr. Mauser, being unable to find an arguably guilty party, is now leading a lynch mob.
Mauser pushes anti-gun and other nanny-state type scocial causes in and around his neighborhood, and as such, bears watching. As of right now, he's on the wrong side of history. With a bit of dilligence, we'll keep him there.
Sympathy for the loss he suffered, of course, but his reaction reminds me of a Mark Twain observation on Southern justice in 1850. I don't have the exact quote, but it's from "Letters from the Earth" I believe, and suggests that, a (minor) crime having been committed, and the guilty culpret being unfindable, the possee would, at minimum, find and lynch a black man.
Mr. Mauser, being unable to find an arguably guilty party, is now leading a lynch mob.
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
Now that this thread is all in one place as it should be, my thoughts are few:
There's just not much point in debating Mr. Mauser unless you have an audience. He will not be swayed. Giving Mr. Mauser the absolute benefit of the doubt, he believes what he does because it makes it easier for him to deal with his grief over his son's death. Nothing you can say will ever be that important to him.
There's just not much point in debating Mr. Mauser unless you have an audience. He will not be swayed. Giving Mr. Mauser the absolute benefit of the doubt, he believes what he does because it makes it easier for him to deal with his grief over his son's death. Nothing you can say will ever be that important to him.
jimpeel
Member
Mauser says he wants "loaded chamber indicators" on firerams. These actually do no good as there are those who will ignore them.
A good example of this is Dix v. Beretta U.S.A. Corp. http://www.nrawinningteam.com/beretta.html in which the plaintiffs argued that had there been a "loaded chamber indicator" on the weapon that killed this boy, the tragedy would have been averted. It was their argument that but for the lack of this simple device, that boy would be alive today.
It was at about this point that the defense walked up to the witness and asked "You mean like this one here on the murder weapon?"
Their case went out the window post haste.
Beretta also won damages against HCI for their part in this which was upheld on appeal. http://www.nrawinningteam.com/beretta2.html
There is nothing in the agenda of the antis to make firearms harder to manufacture or bankrupt them with R&D costs. The agenda is to legislate defects into firearms so they can be declared unsafe, or defective, in court.
The courts have never found firearms to be inherently unsafe as a consumer product when used in the manner prescribed. This is a ploy on the part of the antis to build those defects in so they can bankrupt the manufacturers through non-stop litigation for provably defective products. They won't, however, admit in court that those defects are there at the demand of groups such as theirs.
A good example of this is Dix v. Beretta U.S.A. Corp. http://www.nrawinningteam.com/beretta.html in which the plaintiffs argued that had there been a "loaded chamber indicator" on the weapon that killed this boy, the tragedy would have been averted. It was their argument that but for the lack of this simple device, that boy would be alive today.
It was at about this point that the defense walked up to the witness and asked "You mean like this one here on the murder weapon?"
Their case went out the window post haste.
Beretta also won damages against HCI for their part in this which was upheld on appeal. http://www.nrawinningteam.com/beretta2.html
There is nothing in the agenda of the antis to make firearms harder to manufacture or bankrupt them with R&D costs. The agenda is to legislate defects into firearms so they can be declared unsafe, or defective, in court.
The courts have never found firearms to be inherently unsafe as a consumer product when used in the manner prescribed. This is a ploy on the part of the antis to build those defects in so they can bankrupt the manufacturers through non-stop litigation for provably defective products. They won't, however, admit in court that those defects are there at the demand of groups such as theirs.
jimpeel
Member
MicroBalrog
Tell Mauser that you know that the purpose of the devices he wants incorporated into firearms is not for safety but to bankrupt the industry with lawsuits when those devices fail. I'd be interested to see his reply to that.
Also, I loved this part
Tell Mauser that you know that the purpose of the devices he wants incorporated into firearms is not for safety but to bankrupt the industry with lawsuits when those devices fail. I'd be interested to see his reply to that.
Also, I loved this part
where he tells you not to write him again but then poses questions for you to answer. Sound File
BluesBear
member
Of course there will be more deaths in America that in Japan or England or Sweden.
Look at the map Sparky, the USA is BIGGER and has MORE population.
We also had more BIRTHS than those countries.
That makes mere totals invalid as a comparison.
You need to compare percentages.
The number of deaths per X number of people.
Then to be fair you also nee to compare for all countries.
Numbers of legally owned guns per X
Numbers of illegally owned guns per X
Number of justified shootings/deaths per X
Then you'll see that the good old USA isn't as blood thirsty as they say.
Look at the map Sparky, the USA is BIGGER and has MORE population.
We also had more BIRTHS than those countries.
That makes mere totals invalid as a comparison.
You need to compare percentages.
The number of deaths per X number of people.
Then to be fair you also nee to compare for all countries.
Numbers of legally owned guns per X
Numbers of illegally owned guns per X
Number of justified shootings/deaths per X
Then you'll see that the good old USA isn't as blood thirsty as they say.
When a person has taken a socio-political position to the level of psychopathology, as Mauser has, there will never be any convincing him of anything. I feel human compassion for anyone who has lost a loved one through human violence -- but unfortunately some individuals deal with it by adopting monomaniacal obsessions over some symbol they believe to be the cause of their suffering. They are as psychologically pathetic and indisputably dangerous as Ahab in his obsessive quest to kill his whale, and they will go to their graves cursing the object of their monomania and attempting to drag the rest of humanity along on their fool's errand.
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Cool Hand Luke 22:36
member
MicroBalrog
Your knowledge of America seems to be quite shallow, stereotyped and about 25 years out of date. The present-day economic status of Blacks in the US is nothing like what you describe. It is vastly better as most would agree.
Think of personal responsibility. :banghead: Perhaps Tom Mauser is correct questioning you about racisim. Your paternalistic attitude towards Blacks in the US is indeed racist. To paraphrase you: adult Black males in the US can't control themselves and should be absolved of personal responsibility for thier own behavior, based upon group grievances. What garbage.
By analogy, you as a descendent of European Jews, shouldn't be held accountable for your actions today because of all the pogroms under the Czar, or Hitlers death camps.
The USA has a history of racisim "unlike any other?" Are you saying the US has a worse history on race relations than the Nazi Germans?, the Soviets?, The Belgian Congo?, The Israeli Jews?
How about you demonstrate your convictions and advocate letting the Palestinians languishing in the West Bank - Gaza concentration camps return to the homes that were stolen from them in '48. "Unlike any other?" No, Israel has nicely duplicated and expanded on the Soviet model of population relocation, and the American system of Indian reservations.
Sorry, no white guilt here. My ancestors fought on the Union side during the Civil War. You recall that one don't you? Thats the one where for the first time in recorded human history, a majority racial-ethnic group (Whites) fought and died for the freedom of a minority racial-ethnic group (Blacks).
Again, your knowledge of the conditions of Blacks in the US is very shallow and stereotyped. Even in the worst sections of America's inner cities, over 85% of Blacks work and pay taxes. Those that don't typically have substance abuse issues or criminal records preventing them from doing do. Black unemployment has nothing to do with racisim except perhaps amongst a small number of rejectionist young Black males who consider getting an education and a good job to be "acting white" and actively discourage thier peers from doing so.
Your knowledge of America seems to be quite shallow, stereotyped and about 25 years out of date. The present-day economic status of Blacks in the US is nothing like what you describe. It is vastly better as most would agree.
Think of personal responsibility. :banghead: Perhaps Tom Mauser is correct questioning you about racisim. Your paternalistic attitude towards Blacks in the US is indeed racist. To paraphrase you: adult Black males in the US can't control themselves and should be absolved of personal responsibility for thier own behavior, based upon group grievances. What garbage.
By analogy, you as a descendent of European Jews, shouldn't be held accountable for your actions today because of all the pogroms under the Czar, or Hitlers death camps.
The USA has a history of racisim "unlike any other?" Are you saying the US has a worse history on race relations than the Nazi Germans?, the Soviets?, The Belgian Congo?, The Israeli Jews?
How about you demonstrate your convictions and advocate letting the Palestinians languishing in the West Bank - Gaza concentration camps return to the homes that were stolen from them in '48. "Unlike any other?" No, Israel has nicely duplicated and expanded on the Soviet model of population relocation, and the American system of Indian reservations.
Sorry, no white guilt here. My ancestors fought on the Union side during the Civil War. You recall that one don't you? Thats the one where for the first time in recorded human history, a majority racial-ethnic group (Whites) fought and died for the freedom of a minority racial-ethnic group (Blacks).
Again, your knowledge of the conditions of Blacks in the US is very shallow and stereotyped. Even in the worst sections of America's inner cities, over 85% of Blacks work and pay taxes. Those that don't typically have substance abuse issues or criminal records preventing them from doing do. Black unemployment has nothing to do with racisim except perhaps amongst a small number of rejectionist young Black males who consider getting an education and a good job to be "acting white" and actively discourage thier peers from doing so.
MicroBalrog
member
Those that actually own homes in Israel may return IMHO. Most of the people in the West Bank do not. Actually most of the people don't live there in refugee camps either.
Besides - and the conditions of the current Palestinians do not cause the current popularity of Hamas and their ilk? The actions of the Soviets are not an indirect cause of the Chechnyan war?
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