Mid-length Vs. Carbine

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savage116

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I have been wanting to get some kind of semi auto before the election and my time period is getting shorter. I know I want an AR my only question is what is the difference between Mid-Length and Carbine. I was looking at Del-Tons so if any body has info on those it would be appreciated. I would also like to let everyone know that I used the search and did some reading before making this thread.
THANKS
 
6" gas system vs. 9" gas system. From everything I've read, mid-length seems to be the one to get if you have a 16-19" barrel. Get the carbine if it's a 14.5" with permanent brake/flash suppressor.
 
I have a midlength RRA with a 16" barrel and it runs like a champ. I was told that it helps to make the 16" carbine length system a little more reliable since the design of the gun was originally for as a 20" rifle. All I know for sure is mine works great.
 
You should match the gas system length to the barrel length. Some companies, like Bushmaster, use a carbine gas system for their 16" guns, which can compromise reliability and cause accelerated wear.

Carbine gas system with a 14.5" barrel, midlength gas system with a 16" barrel, or full length gas system with a 20" barrel. One of those three, and the gun will run fine as long as it's clean and not a lemon.
 
Midlength gas systems will have a softer recoil, longer sight radius, and potentially will be easier on the internals.
 
The midlength is supposed to be more reliable, but any decent AR is reliable enough.

One thing to note about Del-Ton: the midlength only comes with an HBAR.
I have Del-Ton's midlength and like it. My favorite part is the longer sight radius compared to the carbine.
I don't like the HBAR because it makes the gun muzzle heavy. It's not as bad as an HBAR with freefloat quad railed forearm covered with mall ninja tacticool junk, it's just a tiny bit too muzzle heavy.
If that's gonna bother you then you'd have to go with a carbine/M4gery with lighter barrel.
 
One way or the other, the differences are not huge. 16" carbines work just fine, it's just that the midlength system is slightly more gentle on the action.

If we're talking a 16" barrel, here's how it breaks down:

Midlength Pros:

More gentle cycling, which results in less wear and tear on the gun, which result sin increased lifespan and durability. Be advised, in order to see any sort of a difference, though, you need to be putting a LOT of rounds through the gun, probably more than most of us will ever put through our rifles.

Longer sight radius, which enhances practical accuracy with iron sights.

Longer rails for mounting doodads, if you go that route.

Ability to use a bayonet, if you get a FSB with bayo lug.

Aesthetics (subjective)

Midlength Cons:

Generally, more makers produce car-length uppers and parts, so selection of middy uppers, rifles and parts is smaller.

The midlength weighs slightly more, and the extra weight (and the constant weight of the FSB) is out towards the nose of the rifle. However, this difference is REALLY REALLY small, and should probably be treated more as theoretical than actual.

Cost: since the middy is a rarer bird, getting one set up the way you want it will probably cost a bit more than a comparable car-length rifle.

So, the upsides are really small, but the downsides are even smaller. If you're running a 16" barreled gun, there's not any real reason not to go with a midlength.

Mike
 
does anyone offer a 16" lightweight-barreled mid-length gas upper in 1/7? or just light+mid?
 
CMMG has a lot of options for mid lengths. Check out their web site. RRA also has middy's. I bought my from CMMG and am very happy with it.
 
According to the people on TOS the gas port pressure on the carbine is 200% of that of the midlength and the bolt pressure is 150% of the midlength.

If that is true that would have to translate into more longevity for the midlength.

Four out of five of my AR's are midlengths.
 
Charles Daly will also be introducing a line of mid-lengths shortly.

The advantages of the mid-length all come down to pressure. The closer the gas port (generally under the front sight base) is to the chamber, and the further it is from the muzzle, the higher the pressure of the gas coming through it.

That pressure gets routed back through the gas tube and into the upper, pushing back on the carrier through the key which then unlocks the action and allows the rifle to cycle. The higher the pressure at the gas port, the higher the pressure at the carrier key and the faster the bolt and carrier are going to be moving.

Many of the "improvements" made to the carbine (stronger extractor spring and insert, o-ring inside extractor, "H" bufer, smaller gas port in the barrel, etc.) are all designed to counteract this higher pressure in a 7" (or carbine) gas system.

So a longer gas system imparts less pressure to the moving parts, and therefore (in theory) does not wear those parts as fast and should translate to lower felt recoil to the shooter.

All of this is, in my opinion, extremely incremental for the vast majority of shooters. I liken it to IPSC shooters that spend hours and hours fine tuning the recoil pulse of their pistol and ammo, but if you handed the same gun to someone not as skilled they would never know the difference and not be able to translate the improvements into any appreciable ability to get better hits faster.

With that said, I just picked up one of the BCM mid-length uppers and am waiting on a few more small parts to show up before I assemble it into a complete gun. For what I wanted in this case, the longer gas system (theoretical reduced recoil) and longer handguard (more space to put my support hand) were the priorities.
 
According to the people on TOS the gas port pressure on the carbine is 200% of that of the midlength and the bolt pressure is 150% of the midlength.
Do you have a link to this? I would like to know how they tested this to come up with these numbers.

Thanks.
 
Reliability should not be that much an issue. If military can bet their lives in battle field with carbine length and keep using it, you should have very little to concern at shooting range.
 
Ok thanks for all the info. I think I will go with a Mid-Length from Del-Ton. Will probably get it ordered this week.
Another question, does the heavy barrel weigh a lot more or isn't it that bad? I don't care about a little weight because I'm not going to be lugging it around. I am buying this because I just want something before the election.
 
Reliability should not be that much an issue. If military can bet their lives in battle field with carbine length and keep using it, you should have very little to concern at shooting range.
The military is using shorter barrels than the ones that have been said on here need a mid-length system.
 
According to the people on TOS the gas port pressure on the carbine is 200% of that of the midlength and the bolt pressure is 150% of the midlength.

Those numbers sound off to me - more like the difference between a rifle gas system in a 20" barrel and a carbine gas system in a 14.5" barrel.

Port pressure with a carbine length gas system is around 23-30k psi (compared to 12-15k for a rifle length gas system) - so that 200% number is roughly correct. That would make the 150% higher pressures in unlocking about right as well for a rifle vs. carbine comparison.

So the difference won't be quite as dramatic with a midlength. I think Coronach summed it up nicely. You aren't talking major differences here; but the sum of the total differences tends to favor the midlength in a 16" rifle.
 
I have a Mid-Length from RRA...

I have fairly long arms and the mid-length works much better for me. The Carbine feels cramped to me...just a personal fitment issue.

Hope this helps.

Matt
 
I know everything's pretty much been said so far, so I'll just give my 2 cents. I've owned two AR15s, both were mid lengths. not only did I like the longer sight radius (though irrelevant if you're using optics) and the less 'violent' gas system, but I just think they look dang good. the carbine hand guards just don't do it for me, and the rifle hand guards feel like they just go on and on forever. the mid length just seems like a perfect compromise between carbine and full rifle length. by the way, my current one has an 18" barrel, and shoots like a dream!
 
Del-Ton mid length (A4 Flattop upper)

:( Sadly, I've only been out to shoot it once since putting it together around a Doublestar lower from Bud's. But I love it so far. I hope to get out next weekend to get the irons fine tuned. As someone else said, it is a tad barrel heavy, but it is not objectionable.

The extra handgaurd length of the mid-length also gives you more places to grip the rifle, a plus in my book.
 
does anyone offer a 16" lightweight-barreled mid-length gas upper in 1/7? or just light+mid?

cmmgu1605.jpg


http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/CMMG_.223_5.56x45_AR15_Mid_Length_16__Complete_Upper_Half.html
 
"Government Profile" is a little different than what most people mean by "lightweight". Government profile is .625" under the handguards only, while a true lightweight barrel is .625" all the way (except for a slightly wider point at the FSB).
 
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