Mid size .380 pistols...

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golden said:
For minimum recoil, ease of shooting, accuracy and reliability, two stand out, the BERETTA 84/85 and the SIG 232.
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The recoil of both Cheetah and the SIG is just as bad as of Walther. On the double-stack Cheetahs it can be somewhat mitigated by holding them in a special way, but one little careless grip and it smarts. Also, you must keep recoil springs in top shape on them, or else again the recoil comes through. Somewhat amusingly, this topic is hashed out at endless threads at Beretta forums. Old people and women get hurt all the time, and then guys with vises for hands come in and post stuff like the quoted. BTW, accuracy of Berettas is so-so, when compared to Glock 42 or Browning 1911-380. And the front sight is milled in.
 
Zalicev,

We will have to agree to disagree. I do not find the recoil of the BERETTA or SIG to be bad at all. I have NEVER been bitten by either the BERETTA 84/85 or SIG 232 or a WALATHAER PPK for that matter and have been shooting them for many years. You may have to change your grip or your hands may be on the large side. Do you have this problem with 1911's? I have been bit only once by a 1911, but I have heard of many people complaining it happens all the time without an extended grip.

Also, who cares if the sight on the BERETTA is milled in. I do not. It is milled in on some of the BERETTA 92's I also shoot. Like the BERETTA 84, they are very accurate.

As for accuracy, I find the BERETTA 84 is at least as accurate as my GLOCK 42, which is my daily carry. Size matters.

Jim
 
My alloy P230 gives me slide bite if I don't lock my thumbs down and it's not pleasant to shoot with defensive loads. Personally I think the .380 PPK/s is sharper/worse as far as recoil, but that's just because the grips of the P230 are more ergonomic and wider, while the Walthers are slim. I'd rather shoot a lot of rounds out of the Ruger LCP than the Walther, personally.
 
I found that the WALTHER PP and PPK/S had more perceived recoil than the smaller PPK. I figured it was the rounder grip on the PPK at the webb of the hand area, that made the difference.

The SIG 232 ally base model with the ergonomic grip is one of the most comfortable guns for me to shoot. It fits me just right. However, if you have a different body shape or hand size, it might not fit you. I see the same for revolvers, for me, HOGUE'S on revolvers are perfect, but for others, not so much.

You just have to see what works for you.

Jim
 
zaitcev said:
The recoil of both Cheetah and the SIG is just as bad as of Walther. On the double-stack Cheetahs it can be somewhat mitigated by holding them in a special way, but one little careless grip and it smarts. Also, you must keep recoil springs in top shape on them, or else again the recoil comes through. Somewhat amusingly, this topic is hashed out at endless threads at Beretta forums. Old people and women get hurt all the time, and then guys with vises for hands come in and post stuff like the quoted. BTW, accuracy of Berettas is so-so, when compared to Glock 42 or Browning 1911-380. And the front sight is milled in.
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Glad you posted this.

I was following this thread because the Beretta 85s on Bud's were tempting me badly, but if you say it's like the Walther / Bersa Thunder, then I'm losing a lot of interest.
 
Ive owned a couple of PPK's, PPK/S's, and they used to tear the web of my hand up terribly, and felt recoil was a lot more noticeable than my P230's.

Both being blowback guns, I just think the SIG's grip design handles, or at least distributes the recoil a lot better than the Walthers. The P230's were noticeably more pleasant to shoot, especially if you are shooting a lot.

Not having two bloodthirsty fangs on the end of the side is a big help too. The SIG's never once drew blood on me. :)
 
zaitcev said:
The recoil of both Cheetah and the SIG is just as bad as of Walther. On the double-stack Cheetahs it can be somewhat mitigated by holding them in a special way, but one little careless grip and it smarts. Also, you must keep recoil springs in top shape on them, or else again the recoil comes through. Somewhat amusingly, this topic is hashed out at endless threads at Beretta forums. Old people and women get hurt all the time, and then guys with vises for hands come in and post stuff like the quoted. BTW, accuracy of Berettas is so-so, when compared to Glock 42 or Browning 1911-380. And the front sight is milled in.
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I would disagree with pretty much all of this. No “special way to hold it”, no punishing recoil, no vice like hands, and my Beretta 84F is impressively accurate at 25yds. I load it with Underwood +P XTP for carry, the same load that amazed me at 25yds. 6AEA3517-68F6-4C05-A0C4-55CC5C5C2146.jpeg
 
465250_02_russian_makarov_380_640.jpg
,380 Makarov.

Makarovs might be the most reliable semi-auto handgun design in the world.

watch
 
Not mid size but easy on the hand, easy to pocket or IWB, and quality throughout. Mine is the PC model but my partner has the standard model.

Semper Fi

paul S&W EZ .380.jpg
 
I have the RIA Baby Rock and my wife has both a Walther PPK/s and the S&W 380 Ez. The Walther is a bit nasty to shoot. The Ez is easier than the Baby Rock to load and hand cycle but the recoil seems about the same to me. I have made a set of fat grips that fill my hand better for the Baby Rock and it is now a little better than the Ez in the recoil department. I have the stick on grip cover coming for the Ez and will see if that makes a difference. The grip of the Ez is thinner than the Baby Rock and I think that if the grips were the same width the Ez would be slightly better than the BR. On that note neither is really unpleasant to shoot and the BR is smaller than the EZ although it weighs as much or slightly more.
 
I'll put mine up here too. I used to have a SIG P232, which wasn't exactly pleasant to shoot. Just too snappy for me, so I sold it, which left me with my Llama Model IIIA. This is a 3/4 size 1911, and unlike some of the other .380 1911 lookalikes, it really functions like a real 1911. Recoil is much more pleasant than the P232.

I've owned this one for about 40 years, and it's fun (once again). I used to have periodic FTFs, and it turned out it was my recoil spring. I replaced it and the gun's been functioning fine ever since.

I know Llama doesn't exactly inspire awe among shooters and collectors, but I really like it.

upload_2020-7-26_9-9-29.png

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And here it is compared to a full size Colt 1911

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I'm glad there is more midsized 380s nowdays and the s&w ez is a hell of a gun, my wife has a 9mm

Many years back my mom needed a gun. It needed to be single stack, 380, midsized and SA trigger. Our choices were pretty much a Llama, which was hard to find......and a bryco 48. She got the Bryco which served her well for many years
 
Dudemeister said:
I'll put mine up here too. I used to have a SIG P232, which wasn't exactly pleasant to shoot. Just too snappy for me, so I sold it, which left me with my Llama Model IIIA. This is a 3/4 size 1911, and unlike some of the other .380 1911 lookalikes, it really functions like a real 1911. Recoil is much more pleasant than the P232.
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Unfortunately, Llama went cheap in the later III series, right in the middle of the generation. All of the MicroMax are also blowbacks. Your IIIA and Especiale were the last good Llamas.
 
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