Military insight needed:explain "tour of duty"

[geegee]

Everytime I hear the phrase, I have to admit ignorance as to knowing exactly what a "tour of duty" is, and how long one should last. Are they always the same in duration? Is everyone expected to serve say one, but no more than say, three? Is there a number that's limited in a specific theater of war?

And most importantly (and confusing) to me, is that I really don't understand why someone enlists in the armed forces, gets deployed to a place like Iraq, and then complains because they're going to be there longer than they expected. This may really expose my lack of understanding the differences in military vs. civilian life, but there are some things about my job that make me want to scream "This has gone on too long...it should be fixed by now! I'm pretty sure the response would be "shut up and get back to work, or, get another job." Granted, no matter how difficult my job may be, no one is shooting at me. But why is it such a big issue when a soldier is sent overseas (part and parcel of their job description, I would think), gets told "Sorry-you have to be there another three months," and it becomes a major issue? I'm not trying to portray these folks doing a tough job as whiners, I'm just trying to understand the parameters of their job that may be unknown to me.

To keep this post gun related, would the soldier in question serving these tours always have the same weapon, or would they be exchanged at some time? Thanks, geegee

 

[BigG]

A hitch, an enlistment, or a tour of duty is all the same thing.

 

[kbr80]

Tour of Duty usually means the length of time you spend at your permanent party duty station. In a theater of combat, it means the duration of time you spent there. Like "he did 3 tours in Viet Nam", means he went to Viet Nam 3 times. There, to my knowledge, is no standard time length to a "tour of duty". It varies due to martial status, duty station, and whether or not we are at war.


Hopefully some that are better versed in this than I am will come along and answer your question better.

 

[joab]

put it this way you show up for work , you work hard for your 8 hrs, then at the 7th hour the boss comes in and says cancel all your plans tonight you're working 12.
Now multiply that by 100 and you will see the frustration felt by those that are involuntarily extended.
But like you said nobody is shooting at you. So change that to standing on the worst corner in your town dressed like a narc for 8, and after surviving that, be extended for 4 more hours.

 

[George S.]

Being an Army Brat, I had probably heard a lot of military sayings or slang at an early age, Hell, I knew what SNAFU stood for by the time I was 6!! I had not heard of "tour of duty" until I entered the Army in '67 and went to Viet Nam. To me, it means primarily the length of time for your current assignment, and specifically in a combat area or overseas. Some people refer to is as the length of time in a specific unit.

Complaining about how long one stays in a theatre of operations is not new. I'm sure there was a whole lot of griping in WWII when B-17 aircrews were told that they had to stay after completing a certain number of missions. The 25 mission requirement changed at some point. You can bet that a lot of GI's were worried about leaving Europe after the surrender of Germany in 1945 and having to go to fight in Japan. There were some units in Korea that probably had their tours extended too.

I'm sort of from the old school of military life. You join, you do your job as best as you can and no amount of griping will change where you go or how long you stay. There are probably some people in the military that decided to enter because of the benefits like education and job experience. Combat and being overseas goes with the territory, they need to suck it up and soldier on. Having to do unpleasant things and being away from family is part of the soldier's life. What was that old saying "When the going gets tough, the tough get going!"

I hope that our troops come home soon and with honor. But while they're there, they need to keep up the serious azz kicking.

As far as their issue weapon, they could very well get a replacement if the unit armorer decides that it had completely worn out from use or had too many parts to replace to make it servicable.

 

[Citadel99]

But why is it such a big issue when a soldier is sent overseas (part and parcel of their job description, I would think), gets told "Sorry-you have to be there another three months," and it becomes a major issue?

Why is it such a major issue? Well, as an active duty Army officer, I'll let you know a few reasons. It's not easy duty over there. Many are seeing death daily. A simple convoy down the road could mean the loss of your life or your soldiers. Nobody, I mean nobody, wants to write that letter home for one of their soldiers. Sit down tonight and write a mock one yourself. It's no easy feat.

These soldiers have wives and kids at home that are growing up without them. Talking with kids on the phone is a mixed blessing: a touch of home but it also makes you remember just how damn far away you are from them.

A lesser reason. You shoot for your day of redeployment. Ask any soldier out there and you'll hear "93 days and a wakeup" till he goes home or however many he's got. When you've been counting on that date for 10-11 months and all of a sudden you find out you're going to be in that situation for another three months? That's rough.

Another thing to think about. In WWII an average soldier in theater for a year would only see 1-2 months of actual combat. In Vietnam there were temporary R&R reprieves to let loose, have some beer, and unwind. Not so in today's Army. You're up against the enemy 24/7. They have recently allowed two weeks leave in the middle of your tour. Other than that, think about working in the ultimate high stress environment for one year plus three months without a day off. No weekend, no holidays.

Yes, it's what you've signed up for. Does that make it easy? No. Does it make it easier for your family? No.

All of that said, I don't see it as whining. Hell, I'd think there was something wrong with one of my soldiers if they didn't complain. It's just something soldiers do. But, you know what, they still suck it up, drive on, and accomplish the mission. Because it's their job. Because it's their mission. Because it's what they're supposed to do. What we do isn't easy. Mistakes can cost lives--not just lost deals or dollars as in many civilian jobs. We know this, we take on the responsibility, and we go abroad. That doesn't mean we don't want to get back home, though.

Our guys are doing a damn fine job over there. I'll be over there at the end of the year. I'm glad that my showing up will let some other guy come home.

Just remember we're people, too. Hope this provides you some insight.

Mark

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The military is a 24/7 job. There is no 40 hour work week, 9-5 working hours or guaranteed duty station. When you enlist, you go where they military needs you to be and you know that before ever signing up. That does not always mean a nice stateside military base and home with the wife and kids every evening.

It gets old hearing some folks complain because they have been overseas for a "whole year" and they are extended for another few months. Back in my submarine riding days, when the only thing going was the Cold War, there were times we were underwater for months at a time. During that time, there was no mail from home, newspapers or TV, football games, radio stations, nightclubs or McDonalds. There used to be a thing called "periscope liberty" where you could look at sunlight. If you are lucky, you might even spot a passing ship on the horizon. There were times when just as the day approached to head back to home port, the boat gets a message to surface next to a tender and load more food because the patrol has been extended because the boat that was supposed to relieve you had something break and couldn't make it.

The troops overseas today have it a lot better than the ground pounders of old. Look at the soldiers in WWII. Some were shipped into the combat zones in 1942 and were there for the duration. There were many unfortunate souls that survived the war only to get called up again to fight in Korea. They didn't have email or cellphones for instant communications with their families back home. When they took their leave, there were no flights back to the US for a month with the folks. They didn't have satellite TV to keep up on the what was happening in the US and around the world.

I have little sympathy for a member of our completely voluntary military whining because they can't come home for another month or two. You sign on the line, you do the time.

 

[Citadel99]

I'm not going to try to get into some contest here. I think, by no means, submarine duty is easy. However, I bet there's a lot of guys over in Iraq that would trade out for three-five months in a sub in a heartbeat instead of getting shot at for 15 months straight.

Also, on the days that you were extended past your expected return date, I'd imagine there was quite a bit of moanin' going on. Don't think things have changed that much!

Anyway, thanks for your service.

Mark

 

[peoria46]

A "Tour of Duty" is the duration of an assignment or posting. At the end of each, you are transfered to another assignment. The major breakdown is whether or not they are "hardship/combat" tours--if you can take your dependents--they are not. Typical assignment is 3 to 4 years. Hardship/combat tours are 1 year. The Army can extend that, for cause, for several months. You can voluntarily extend in one-year increments until the Army gets tired of you having parked yourself too long.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

I'd imagine there was quite a bit of moanin' going on.

There was quite a bit of moaning before we ever left port, including by me. But it was our job and we did it, just like the troops in Iraq are doing their job under far more difficult circumstances than I had to deal with. They have every right to complain about being extending, but they should limit it to among themselves. Complaining in front of civilian news crews and their families doing the same back home, giving ammunition to the liberals for propaganda purposes, doesn't help anyone, themselves included.

 

[MarkDido]

Hey Hkmp5sd

Boomers or Fast Attack and which coast?

 

[cdbeaver]

In the Korean War, tour of duty was based on the point system for Army personnel. It took 36 points to rotate back to the States.

If you were on the front line--where you could actually get killed, you got four points a month. Nine months of hell and you went home.

Back two or three miles, say at corps or division, you got three points a month. A year for a tour of duty.

Further back from the front, say at Seoul or some other REMF outfit, you got two points a month. A two-year tour of duty. In Japan, where duty was bliss, you got a point a month . . . and enjoyed every bit of it.

During WWII, for the most part your tour of duty--whether enlisted or drafted--was for the duration plus six months.

 

[Abominable No-Man]

Citadel99, George S., and joab brought up some good points, but there's a little more to it than that.

Here are some of my insights:

I'm not trying to portray these folks doing a tough job as whiners, I'm just trying to understand the parameters of their job that may be unknown to me.

Granted, no matter how difficult my job may be, no one is shooting at me.

Again, there's more to it than that. There are cops who get shot at a lot, and at the end of their shift they can still go home, unwind, and do whatever they feel like.

No such thing over there. A typical day (i.e., almost every day) starts at about 0600. You wake up in a GP medium (it's usually getting too hot to sleep anymore anyway) that's usually packed to well over maximum occupancy. It' your third day in a row without a shower (water rationing- you get enough water to drink, and of course, shave, but a lot of times that's about it), pull on the same clothes you've been wearing for a week or so (sweat stains and all), head for the latrine (a section of pipe stuck in the ground at about a 45 degree angle) to drain the lizard, and hit the MKT for breakfast (if you've been there, now you know why the Army gripes about chow.......). The list of work to do is posted- Top wants another layer of sandbags around everyone's tent, the Force Protection level was bumped up again (so you're back to flak jacket, helmet, and LCE again- you're already soaked with sweat, and it's not even 0800, yet....), the Platoon Sergeant wants to know why a certain aircraft/weapon/vehicle isn't 100% yet (same reason again- no one knows where the widget that you ordered three weeks ago (and that no one in the entire brigade seems to have) is), and the wind is blowing up a nice little dust storm already . Sheesh. Now you've been sweating and you resemble a sugar cookie. Head to your guardpost/ flightline/maintenance bay/ etc. Work begins with the joyful discovery of everything you did the day before has been completely screwed up because the dust has managed to penetrate even the most careful covering. You spend half the morning cleaning it back out. Then you have to drop what you are doing and fix the aircraft/weapon/vehicle that just blew it's (fill in with your most annoying and hard to get to part), which takes you up until about 1500. By now it's close to 140 degrees, you skipped lunch to fix that &%$*&# widget, and you figure you might as well go on ahead and finish up what you started that morning. You spend another hour or so, cursing the wind and dust, as you clean the same area out again. Finally get back to work, and about an hour later, the PSG shows up with the night shift supervisor/SOG/etc., and wants to know what the hell you've been doing all day. Night shift takes over at around 1800. You head over to chow (see the part about breakfast.....), head back to your tent and the 1900 platoon meeting (same as last night- no new word about anything, no mail, and Top wants still more sandbags filled up and stacked.........). You spend about an hour cleaning your individual weapon (%$#%* dust....), finish up about 2100, re-read the same month-old letters from your wife/girlfriend/significant other, and by that time it's about 100 degrees, you can finally catch a few hours of sleep.

The next day you repeat the entire series of events. And you are talking about doing it not days, not weeks, but months on end. It is tedious; it is frustrating; depending where you are, you will catch either a little or a lot of incoming, but neither one helps.

Yeah, we volunteered. You damn betcha we're gonna do our jobs.

Vent some frustrations? Like was said earlier,

Hell, I'd think there was something wrong with one of my soldiers if they didn't complain.

We're human, too- volunteer or not, officer, NCO, or enlisted, we just plain get sick of the same ol' same ol', sometimes. It's normal, and it's been going on since G. Washington was The Man. Yeah, we have our share of chronic whiners, too, but IMO, they are probably the exception rather than the norm. Like it or not, I'm am very proud to say that despite the conditions, my company pulled together and pulled hard, from day one all the way to the end.

ANM

 

[snug]

You sign on the dotted line and raise your right hand, and you become
government property to serve at it's pleasure where when and for
how long it is demmed necessary, and for periods in excess of your
contract terms should it be required.
For many years the mantra was part time soldier and education benefits
along with PAY, for just a few weekends a year and two weeks a year.
Well friends, with the public's cry for downsizing of the military are the
cause for the part time soldiers lament, along with the spouse issue
which has now raised it's ugly head. ( Spouse issue; I mean "BOTH"
are in the Guard or Reserve and both were called up.)
All was fine and the money and benefits were great until the real sacrfices
of military life through real war conditions. We were living high on the
hog and they'll never call us up, "WRONG", niaive? Maybe, but I think
not!
Now that reality has hit home, and the grandparents have to watch the
kids. And spouses at home who thought that the extra money and
benefits were just great are now crying "bring'em home".
When I signed up in the "Nam Era" I didn't know where I'd be going
or what I'd be doing and how long I'd have to stay, I knew that up
front and had no un-reasonable expectations. The only government
lie that I almost fell for was, "Stay with it for 20 years and we'll
take care of you for the rest of your life!"
It's too late say say wake up soldier for those who were honestly dumb,
but for those who were capitalizing on the service as a benefit, "You
volunteered, signed your name and raised your hand vowing to work
for the government at it's pleasure". "Not for your benefit and personal
enrichment">

 

[geegee]

Now that reality has hit home, and the grandparents have to watch the kids. And spouses at home who thought that the extra money and benefits were just great are now crying "bring'em home".

I have to believe that that is a dynamic of the modern military that didn't exist before (or in such large numbers), and is probably having an imppact on troop morale. I heard that this is the most "married" military we've ever had, but I can't verify that, and it would also be interesting to find out how many married couples are now serving at the same time.

The information you guys have provided is excellent, and to each of you, a sincere "thank you" for your service. geegee

 

[entropy]

'Tour of Duty' A mediocre (at best) TV series in which a regular Mechanized Infantry unit is magically transformed into some sort of SOG group in one season!
Thank You to all of you other guys and gals who have and/or are still serving the world over! We remember 9-11 and support you!

Hooyah!

US Army , '86-89

 

[Hkmp5sd]

MarkDido,

Fast Attack out of Pearl Harbor. USS Bremerton (SSN-698).

 

[rms/pa]

the surface navy version of this if the wespac /med cruise/ wherever deployment. usually 6 months on station and 6 months in homeport.

but ???? happens, we were coming back from wespac, had customs on board, tigers wives and girlfreinds (for some) waiting in pearl.

oops, a ship of our class went engingeering broken in the indian ocean.
and some staff wienie started drwing circles on a map looking for an unaasigned tin can. 3 hours of onbase liberty and onload at the pearl fuel docks later we headed out for 170 days in the indian ocean.

got 3 divorces out of this and 1 or 2 suicides. (falls overboard in flat seas?)

rms/pa

 

[jerryd]

I think each branch has its own parameters of tour of duty! Last year when i was working at NL sub base it was 6mnts at sea and 6mnths at base, when i was in Nam the army was 12mths, but i think my buddy who was in the Marines was 13 mths,so long ago! But then they could extend you like they did me, but i got to go home inbetween tours. As far as it being a hardship being in the desert and being shot at 24/7, no different then Nam except it was wetter. No one wants to go to war, but thats the reality of life its very scary and noone knows the outcome, Viet Nam was refered to as the TV war,and my parents used to write and say i still havent seen you on tv yet, and i prayed to god they didnt! Right now i watch the coverage in Iraq and old memories come back,im sure all vets go thru it cant forget, the old saying was 10 days and a wake up SHORT!!!!, also had the short sticks, well enough rambling, God Bless our troops and may they all come home!

 

[Citadel99]

It's my opinion that the perceived whining of soldiers is more an issue of the media and communications today versus the past. With twenty-four hour news agencies always looking for a story, iridium phones to call in to the station from anywhere in the world, and the internet, anything that makes news will be broadcast. I really doubt there is much more complaining than any other time frame, it's just relayed more to the public now.

The patriotic press of the WWII wouldn't dare print something like that. However, today's liberal press has no qualms.

Food for thought.

Mark