Future military officer?

[thefitzvh]

So, I organized this trip to the range for the ROTC cadets at my school. I was active duty army for a while, and now I'm training to be an officer. Anyways, as I was asking people for volunteers to go, I get to this one girl.

Me: Hey, wanna go to the range and shoot? It's gonna help you at field training to have more than one day of M9 experience.

Her: (horrified expression) Oh NO! No, no no. No thank you

Me: Um... are you busy

Her: no, i just hate guns. I don't want to fire one



I asked her if she realized that, regardless of military job, she may have to defend her country in a dire situation. She replies that she'll just run.

I ask if she cares about qualifying this summer at field training... she says she doesn't care if she qualifies or not.

Comments? Thoughts? Rants?

What would YOU do if you were me. Part of me says "hell with it" but another part says I should bring this up to SOMEONE. I mean, i KNOW i don't want an officer in my military who WILL NOT bear arms in defense of her nation.

James

 

[FPrice]

Is this High School or College? I suspect the latter but not sure.

I have seen some of the same behavior from some active duty and reserve officers, primarily in the medical career field. Seems like there is a problem between the competing ideas of hurting people and then trying to save their lives.

I rather suspect that this person is looking for a free ride to help with school costs and is not really interested in a military career, or any sort of military service. Her comments indicate a lack of willingness to do what is required.

I don't know what your exact connection with that ROTC program is, but I would say that this should be reported if it is a College program. If it's HS, then it's a little less critical...she'll lose interest fast enough.

 

[WT]

She may learn the hard way that she can't outrun an enemy bullet.

 

[El Tejon]

Not so unusual for this country. People want to ride in the wagon, not help pull it, in the military or outside it.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Typical "It'll never happen to me!" syndrome.

Remember the small number of persons in the military, especially in the reserve units, that complained when they were called up for active duty at the start of the war? They were claiming that when they joined the military, they never thought they *might* actually have to fight someday.

 

[Glockster35]

Some of my experiences when I did duty as firearms instructor in the USAF:

Had one female Captian (Medical type) begin crying at the range, she said "I don't like guns, my job is to fix people who get shot", I told her that fixing the injured was her secondary job, that fighting had to come first. I also pointed out that her ID card said "Armed Forces" not medic. I told her if she didn't qualify today, I would send a letter to her group commander saying she was unfit/unwilling to qualifiy.

Had a male Major (Medical type) who started his arguement concerning weapons qualification by saying "I don't know why I am even here, I will never be armed in a wartime situation", I agreed with him by adding "You surely won't if you don't qualify here today"!

Once had a female Lt who told me she had just attended the "Million Mom March" and that she didn't think there was a use for firearms in the world today. I simply said "Good for you, supporting something you believe in, but banishing firearms from the world would result in nothing more than letting terrorists take over every country, how would you feel then"? She was stumped and turned red.

 

[thefitzvh]

yeah it's a college program. I'm merely a cadet now (I long for my old rank sometimes.... hehe)

I dont know. Maybe I'll tell someone.;


James

 

[aquapong]

I think the Army has got to stop offering that college money for people who sign up. It's a bribe and you're only bribing people who won't be there for the right reasons.

 

[Pilgrim]

If she is drawing government subsidy to aid in her education, report it to the Professor of Military Science.

 

[C.R.Sam]

Put her on report.

Might save her life.
More importantly, might save the lives of others in her future unit.

Sam

 

[Jack19]

I'm with C.R. Sam. If she's one of the Schumer/Fienstein brainwashed multitudes, and won't fulfill her obligation...she needs to be out.

I wonder how she knows she "hates" guns? Because she's fired them before and is recoil sensitive, or because she was told to hate guns by her liberal parents?

 

[4v50 Gary]

She'll run? Now that's one fine example of a leader. Stonewall Jackson once chewed out one subordinate for ordering some Union officer spared. "Shoot the brave ones," instructed Jackson, "the cowards and skulkers always flee to the rear." (or something like that)

 

[Holly76201]

IMNSHO, as a woman, as the SIL of two brave Reserve Officers {one just back from Kuwait, one currently @ BIAP }, and as a Firearms afficianado, this young woman has NO business being in ROTC if she's not willing to even LEARN to shoot. While she may never have to fire in offense, she needs to at least know how to shoot in self defense and in defense of her troops!
Holly

 

[George Hill]

Cowardess should be weeded out at all levels in the military.

I'd file a report.

 

[thefitzvh]

Roger that... i'll talk to the Colonel next time I see him.


James

 

[Detritus]

My oppinion is do NOT report her, BUT DO find out what happens if she does NOT pass her small arms Quals at Summer training.

Possibly try to speak with the head of the program, see is he/she is willing to take the time to make this issue abundantly clear to all the fence sitters. And make it CRYSTAL clear that ROTC is not an "easy way to get tuition". that, esp in today's enviroment, it is HIGHLY likely that many or most of them will eventually be assigned a slot that is not only outside of US borders, but quite possibly in a VERY hostile location. and that it is imperative that each and every of them be able AND WILLING to defend not only themselves but those around them.

regardless of what her intended field within the military is, the attitude of "i will NOT defend myself much less others, and will in fact RUN in the face of a threat!" has absolutely no place amoung ANY member of the ARMED services, much less someone placed in an officer's billet!!!


on the other hand it is possible (though highly unlikely) that in the intervening time between now and when this young lady has to do her pistol quals, she will come to a better understanding of what is being asked and REQUIRED of her in exchange for the tuition money. and will at that point either suck it up and learn the skills she needs, or (hopefully if the first case is not so) take a volutary drop from the program and all that THAT entails.

i personally think that before even a red cent of tuitiion money is given by the government for an ROTC scholarship that the the canidate/cadet should HAVE to attend and show willing in the use of firearms.


But what do I know, i couldn't/can't even enlist, due to medical/physical condition(s) (Note: if you want to send a recruiter into fits, Ace the ASVAB while in HS but be aprox. 60lbs overweight with ankle trouble and diagnosed clinical depression)

 

[thefitzvh]

this is the problem... in the AIR FORCE, it's not required to actually qualify.

I honestly don't know if I should sit down and chat with her, or report her , or what. I guess I'll just think about it.

James

 

[Detritus]

sorry pet peeve.........

i know the term is in common usage, and i know the USAF is held in contempt by the older services, and i know it's weapons training requirements leave ALOT to be desired.
but it is NOT a farce.

i would go on but it would be a thread hi-jack and would not serve the purpose of this thread.

the officers and enlisted members of the AF may not be "MARINES" or even "soldiers" but they do not deserve the contempt that the term "Air Farce" embodies.

ok, i'll go run for cover now.......


and YES if i'd been able the AF is where i would have gone

 

[ShaiVong]

I would have liked to go AF, but my eyes are crap; and if you cant fly, whats the point?

 

[Lancel]

There's a reason it's called the Armed Forces.

Inability or refusal to defend oneself is a liability.
Those in charge MUST be informed. If not now, then when?

If the person's skills are essential, he/she might need a body guard.
If the person is a shammer then he/she'll cut and run at the worst time; others could pay a high price for that ROTC tuition.

Larry

 

[Detritus]

last i heard you had to go to USAFA to get a active duty pilot slot (least that's what the recruiters, and AFROTC comanders at Duke and NC state said) and to go reserve.ANG pilot you had to either be prior service flyer or a comerical pilot. I tried to go that route (academy), right up untill i figured out that i didn't have the needed co-ordination and fine motor-skill abilities (aka finesse) to be able to be a military pilot.

 

[thefitzvh]

My det puts out two to three pilots per per semester. Whoever told you that you could only get a pilot slot from the academy was lying.

I use the term air farce, not because I don't like the service, but because the service still has a long way to go. For example, they JUST got rid of that damn exercise bike test, where all you had to do to ace it was smoke a cigarette right before

And I used the term in this instance to indicate my disgust that weapons quals are not required. I think that's ridiculous, and not fitting for an ARMED service.

Then again, I DID join the AF. Maybe I shoulda stayed army. The point is: the service does NOT have high enough standards in many areas. And hopefully that will change. Maybe I can do my part to change that, at least ni the units I serve with.

James

 

[Sergeant Bob]

thefitzvh

this is the problem... in the AIR FARCE, it's not required to actually qualify.

Do you realize that the largest number of POW's in Viet Nam were in the Air Force? There have been alot who have given their lives serving their country in the Air Force.
People in all branches (yes, even the Coast Guard) die serving their country. Please don't cheapen their memories by making crude jokes about them.

 

[thefitzvh]

Post edited... my point wasnt to cheapen anyone, it was to express my discontent with lack of standards

 

[c_yeager]

While i find this level of cowardness distastefull and i DONT think that this girl really should have her education paid for if she is unwilling to fullfil her end of the bargain. BUT, with that said, it can be really suprising how these things turn out. Put a rifle in her hand under enemy fire and she may just make herself into something to be proud of. The military turn people INTO soldiers thats the whole point. Give her some time and see what happens.