Military Police?

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ArmedBear

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Two articles about the militarization of the police. Scary stuff.

BTW I AM glad there are cops who work day in and day out to keep our streets reasonably safe from everyday criminals, reckless drivers, etc. I get it: the job is a PITA.

However, the system we've created is changing many of our attitudes towards the police, and this should come as no surprise to anyone interested in liberty. We NEED more checks and balances on police power. We don't need to keep trying to pass on the myth that every police chief is Andy Griffith.

http://reason.com/blog/show/119952.html

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/4203345.html

This is not Mayberry:
image_5346048.jpg
 
This is truly getting more and more frightening.
Why does our government feel that WE THE PEOPLE are such a threat as to warrant tanks and the quasi Spec Ops mentality.
Commit a crime, dont worry about a black and white with a decent officer, you get the SWAT Team rolling down in an APC, half of which used to be Special Ops guys, all armed M4s or MP5s.
The Founding Fathers would be flipping over this.
"Peace Officers" Do not need the same equipment for the citizens of the U.S. that they are using against insurgents and terrorists in Iraq and Aghanistan.
 
Why? I think you can answer that for yourself, spartan20...
 
Why should the police not have the best equipment possible? Are their lives less valuable? That said they should not be allowed to have things we can not get.

But wth the recent SCOTUS ruling it won't matter. The poilce can shoot you while in pursuit now if you are considered a threat to public safety. That is a much bigger issue than whatever high speed gun they are purchasing.
 
This topic was covered about two months ago. I am quite sure this will turn into a bash cop fest like the last one. any way, I don't see a problem with it as long as they use these free vehicles, from the military for different roles, such as rescue, SWAT and etc.
 
Why should the police not have the best equipment possible? Are their lives less valuable? That said they should not be allowed to have things we can not get.

I don't think it's a problem that there are SWAT teams with equipment and training.

as long as they use these free vehicles, from the military for different roles, such as rescue, SWAT and etc.

I agree. It's the trend towards militarized policing that is the problem, not the vehicles.

I think that the proliferation of SWAT teams and their consequent use for more routine "busts" is a problem.

We need a strong military, too. We don't need a military that herds our own citizens into concentration camps. The equipment and training our military has could be used for that. We need to make sure it isn't.

That's why I said "checks and balances". And that's why it's important that we remember that, sometimes, it's worse to give up our liberties in the name of catching criminals.

Locking down a town to catch a serial killer known to be in it might be justified, and the residents may be fine with it. Deadly military assaults on private homes to catch people engaging in the black market? That doesn't pass muster, to me.

Reality: black market transactions will always occur on some level. They happened a lot in the Soviet Union, too. They happen in our own prisons. It's impossible to take enough freedom away to end them completely. No matter what your opinion of drugs, or perhaps of certain "hard drugs," is it worth such a high price to try to bust every dealer, when we never will anyway?
 
I want every SWAT team in the country to have an armored vehicle of some kind. I'd also like ever officer to have a Level 4 vest and high quality rifle. I don't fear the police being heavily armed and equipped, I do fear a government that prohibits me from being heavily armed. As long as the police are controlled in what levels of force that they can use it won't matter what equipment they have.
 
Why should the police not have the best equipment possible? Are their lives less valuable? That said they should not be allowed to have things we can not get.

completely and totaly agree. the government are not above the law. and as such should also be subject to all the laws joe schmoe has to deal with. ( NFA, Im looking at you)

I want every SWAT team in the country to have an armored vehicle of some kind. I'd also like ever officer to have a Level 4 vest and high quality rifle. I don't fear the police being heavily armed and equipped, I do fear a government that prohibits me from being heavily armed. As long as the police are controlled in what levels of force that they can use it won't matter what equipment they have.

ya, im ok with that so long as im allowed to have javeline missles, high caliber rifles and automatic weapons. untill then they can stop stealing from my paycheck to buy themselves things they say i cant have
 
Please tell me the guy violating AR 670-1 in the above photo is a Soldier and not civilian police. A CIVILIAN impersonating a SOLDIER is illegal. Damn posers. He's making a mockery of himself and his department.
 
There are mixed feelings about this. If they are setting such things up in say, Flaggstaff, AZ that would be overkill. I would say, with the terrorist possibility, gear up honest target locations first.

Now along that line, we have all heard of First Responders right? Well here is an idea. Let's get something started along the same lines as First Responders, but as a Militia. Citizen manned, citizen organized. If the SHTF most people are going to be running scared. The FR's are supposed to assist in essentials right? Medical, Organizing Relief Shelters and Evacuations, ect. So why not figure out a form of the FR's to assist in Security? Along the lines of a Deputized Posse. I know the National Guard and the Police are supposed to handle this, but with a LARGE number of the NG sent to Iraq, how thin can they truely be spread?

It also might be a way to legally own some of the weapons we all cherish. Plus, it could be required to get regular training with them. Of course meetings and plans would need to be in place and checked regularly.

Just my thoughts.
 
A CIVILIAN impersonating a SOLDIER is illegal

Impersonating a Soldier, yes. Merely wearing camouflage, no.

Wearing a US uniform with US Army tabs etc, and/or trying to pass yourself off as a member of the military when you are not is illegal.

If his police agency uses the ACU uniform as a tactical uniform, it includes tabs to ID him as "Mayberry PD" etc, and he is not rying to pass himself off as a member of the military; that is perfectly legal.

Indeed, the California State Military Reserve's uniforms are US Army uniforms exactly, except their BDU tapes say "CALIFORNIA" instead of US Army, and their Class A nametags are red.
 
We're obviously heading towards apolice state; I'm sure some impoverished areas already are. We need peace officers not law enforcement officers and we need them to KNOW & RESPECT the Bill of Rights. It's difficult to get that with the horrid state of general population awareness and the counter-terrorist mindset of their training.

I know I spend some time trying to increase awareness of some of our local officers and some get it but most don't seem to care. To them it's "us versus 'the civilians'". Not good.
 
To them it's "us versus 'the civilians'". Not good

as a Criminal Justice major, i encounter more potential officers who view it as "us vs 'The scum" and ofcouse any one in the system is guilty, or they wouldnt be in the system.

this concerns me obviously, and i do not believe i want to be LEO anymore. so essentialy 3 years of college education for nothing :)

oh, and i do fight for the constitution on an almost dailey basis in classes
 
as a Criminal Justice major, i encounter more potential officers who view it as "us vs 'The scum" and ofcouse any one in the system is guilty, or they wouldnt be in the system.

this concerns me obviously, and i do not believe i want to be LEO anymore. so essentialy 3 years of college education for nothing

That makes two of us. I'm also a CJ major, and the vast majority of my peers disgust me. They buy into the police subculture that anyone that isnt a cop is "the enemy."

It is also sad how many of them view the Bill of Rights as an annoying technicalities that gets in the way of "getting the job done", rather than the sacred rights and protections that they are. If you insist on an attorney, they assume you're hiding something, and therefore guilty. If you dont consent to a search, you're hiding something, and therefore guilty. If you possess a firearms, they assume that you're up to no good. It goes on and on.

I have a problem with the militarization trend of law enforcement. The government has resorted to these tactics to subdue the general public, not protect it.

I also despise the "act now, ask questions later, let the courts sort it out" attitude that has become characteristic of LE, both individual LEO's and entire LE agencies.

It seems to me that law enforcement nowadays puts more emphasis on tactics and training for physical confrontation, rather than learning and understanding the statutes that they're supposed to enforce. Most students who complete a freshman level "Intro to Criminal Justice" course will be better versed in law than most cops.

Sorry for the rant, but between my interaction with LE (as a student, internships, interviews, etc) and my academic studies, I have become quite disallusioned with law enforcement, and government as a whole.
 
I have said before that the new type of cop is prone to the soldier mentality, it's very scary that this is tolerated and nurtured in many departments. I have seen a few down town beat cops here in Mobile with extended coverage vests (outside the uniform) with chest holsters and cargo pants, one even had a huge ironed "Punisher" logo on his vest (what a ####### retard!), what is wrong with normal patrol gear? Not tactical enough to go to war with the business community downtown?

Senior dept. personnel need to put the kybash on this bull. Tell these urban commandos that they are servants of public safety and not on Baghdad bomber watch.
 
Why should the police not have the best equipment possible? Are their lives less valuable?

A policeman's life is not more or less valuable than any other citizen's life.

When cops are spending my money they should stick to equipment they need; not equipment that is cool or helps them feel tuff.
 
Sorry for the rant, but between my interaction with LE (as a student, internships, interviews, etc) and my academic studies, I have become quite disallusioned with law enforcement, and government as a whole.

Then get out on the street, with REAL cops, not some folks in the classroom. You'll see the difference real quick.

as a Criminal Justice major, i encounter more potential officers who view it as "us vs 'The scum" and ofcouse any one in the system is guilty, or they wouldnt be in the system.

Then you're learning the wrong thing. Listen to your professors, not your fellow students, who probably learned about law enforcement from watching TV.

That makes two of us. I'm also a CJ major, and the vast majority of my peers disgust me. They buy into the police subculture that anyone that isnt a cop is "the enemy."

Unfortunately, you are falling into the same trap. Listen to your professors. Don't worry--your militant "peers" will not last one week into FTO with that attitude.

It seems to me that law enforcement nowadays puts more emphasis on tactics and training for physical confrontation, rather than learning and understanding the statutes that they're supposed to enforce. Most students who complete a freshman level "Intro to Criminal Justice" course will be better versed in law than most cops.

For your first sentence, wait until you get into a police academy. Yes, you will be taught defensive tactics, but the amount of criminal law that is thrown at you is almost frightening for the uninitiated.

As for your second sentence, not a chance in h-e-double toothpicks.

That being said, trueblue1776 is spot on. There is too much "tacticality" on the street nowadays. I can see jumpsuits in bad weather, but not for everyday wear. As for me, I take pride in my uniform--shining the footwear to a mirror shine, polishing up the collar pins, the belt buckle and brass, and spending some time with Simichrome on that REALLY nice silver badge is a requirement for me. And, putting on the leather? There's just something about it that most folks warm up to. Look professional, and act professional--that's the key to having others warm up to you at a glance.

Plus, it is a proven deterrent. A well fitted, crisp uniform with gleaming accoutrements, shined shoes and a well groomed man or woman says it well: "No, I'm not working security and I'm not here to play Rambo. I am a professional Police Officer, working for you and the community."

Really, folks, before you start to bash, get out there, and get into uniform! Instead of jumping on the cop-bash bandwagon, get out there--and make a difference! Change CAN occur, and it CAN start with you. Any coward can stand on the sidelines and throw snide comments. Show some spine--and make a difference!
 
When the cops start wearing what looks to be the same uniform I wore at the end of my Army term (ACU's) I view it as blurring the line between military and police. Hell they have some toys I never saw when I was in (MP5's). The mentality is very different between the two, but it worries me that the police will start to view the general public the same way the Army view insurgents now.
 
Agree 100% with Powderman, these tactical cops would get more of their precious "deserved" respect if they hit the starch and brass-o instead of the Galls catalog. It was drilled into my skull: "the first thing the public sees is your uniform, look sharp retard!". I guess they don't have weekly uniform inspections in Mobile.
 
My problem isn't the police having or being able to use good equipment. Sometimes some really nasty stuff happens and we need those kind of options for when it does. And in a lot of cases, this stuff is something we the taxpayers have already shelled out for. Would you rather someone use it, or it sit in a government warehouse?

Actually I'd rather auction it off to the public, I think we'd recover more of our money that way, but I digress.

My problem is the system that governs what the police can and can't do is out of whack. Why does a thing like a no knock warrant even exist, for example? Why can a police department own things that I cannot in many jurisdictions?

There's nothing wrong with the police having M4s and APCs as long as I have M4s and APCs too. Therein lies the rub.

It's true that individual officers are morally accountable if they enforce Unconstitutional or immoral laws or commit other infractions, but we should judge each of these cases on its own basis.
 
A policeman's life is not more or less valuable than any other citizen's life.


I agree. The regular citizen is not tasked with going to flush out armed criminals or arresting terrorists either.

As long as I don't see the M113 on regular patrol the power of the police doesn't worry me. If they replaced their Crown Vics with these then I would feel there is a problem.
 
Quote:
It seems to me that law enforcement nowadays puts more emphasis on tactics and training for physical confrontation, rather than learning and understanding the statutes that they're supposed to enforce. Most students who complete a freshman level "Intro to Criminal Justice" course will be better versed in law than most cops.

For your first sentence, wait until you get into a police academy. Yes, you will be taught defensive tactics, but the amount of criminal law that is thrown at you is almost frightening for the uninitiated.

As for your second sentence, not a chance in h-e-double toothpicks.



lol powderman you are not taking into account those super duper powers that one is imbued with while on a college campus. it enable em to leap tall intellectual buildings in a single bound. i remember only too well knowing everything , along with all the others at my school, about everything. alas i musta been napping the day the faculty taught that my power's would diminish, most rapido , when i left the campus and entered the real world. and even more perplexing was the way my super intellect seemed to be siphoned off in some mysterious way and absorbed by the dumb sobs that had been on the job while i was pumping mental iron at college. as they went from contemptible boobs to become my mentors i could feel my superiority being sapped much like kryptonite weakened superman. . in some cruel twist of reality i was transformed from all knowing sage who would revolutionize the industry into a fng who was tolerated and hada be nursed along so i wouldn't hurt anything. oh the fickle cruelness of it all. and i can see from my interactions with the intellectual giants of today that they too are not being properly prepared for this phenomenon that will befall them as they leave the hallowed academic sanctuaries


but dogone if it ain't funny to watch
 
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