primer
Member
Post 51 section 31 a&b. Amprecon, it seems like a fact. I wish it wasn't, but if it is how do you proceed?
Militia
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Ridgerunner665
Member
Spoken like a true Patriot....there aren't many of us left.
This thread proves it.
ZombiesAhead
Member
- Joined
- May 10, 2007
- Messages
- 460
perhaps a militia that:
*was not hate-oriented (neo-nazis, etc)
*preferably not just fat, old, white guys
*maintained a non crazy-bunker-survivalist image (at least publicly)
*had no pretensions that our small arms would be effective in any protracted fight with government; nor discussed fantasy scenarios regarding revolution, state secession, etc UNTIL/UNLESS such a situation was imminent
As far as I can tell, looking at web sites for Michigan Militia (supposedly one of the most serious out there) it is a joke.
Several "militias" also have YouTube videos featuring them driving around in pickup trucks shooting at random sand berms and stuff - that is embarrassing.
*was not hate-oriented (neo-nazis, etc)
*preferably not just fat, old, white guys
*maintained a non crazy-bunker-survivalist image (at least publicly)
*had no pretensions that our small arms would be effective in any protracted fight with government; nor discussed fantasy scenarios regarding revolution, state secession, etc UNTIL/UNLESS such a situation was imminent
As far as I can tell, looking at web sites for Michigan Militia (supposedly one of the most serious out there) it is a joke.
Several "militias" also have YouTube videos featuring them driving around in pickup trucks shooting at random sand berms and stuff - that is embarrassing.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
How can I put this. I was trying to answer the question without saying anything declarative that can be recorded and used against me. I'm not going to come on the interweb, as an active soldier, and say "yeah, I would definitely fight the Army and the government". I have a security clearance to think about. I've answered the question as far as I'm prepared to at this time. If the time comes that this talk has to become more than talk, I'll make my intentions known then. Until then, my official position is, no I will not join a group that is subversive to the US Government. Thank you.
I'd personally love to join up with a militia unit, only I don't know of any in Wisconsin in the Milwaukee area.
Also with our anti-gun crazy govenor (Doyle) I seriously doubt that he would sanction or allow any group of people to train with any sort of arms.
Disaster relief, and local protection would be my main focus for wanting to join in a local militia unit, but like I said.... here in Wisconsin, I doubt it would be percieved in a favorable light as there's the Olafson case that happened recently, where he was convicted of tranferring a machine gun, when all the evidence shows that it was a simple malfunction... but the prosecution said that didn't matter as the statute simply said that a firearm that when the trigger is pressed shoots more than one round...for whatever reason.. is considered a machine gun.
This is the sort of foolishness that we'd have to put up with here, but with that said.... I'd still join a local unit, if I knew of one in my area.
Also with our anti-gun crazy govenor (Doyle) I seriously doubt that he would sanction or allow any group of people to train with any sort of arms.
Disaster relief, and local protection would be my main focus for wanting to join in a local militia unit, but like I said.... here in Wisconsin, I doubt it would be percieved in a favorable light as there's the Olafson case that happened recently, where he was convicted of tranferring a machine gun, when all the evidence shows that it was a simple malfunction... but the prosecution said that didn't matter as the statute simply said that a firearm that when the trigger is pressed shoots more than one round...for whatever reason.. is considered a machine gun.
This is the sort of foolishness that we'd have to put up with here, but with that said.... I'd still join a local unit, if I knew of one in my area.
primer
Member
Alexd,That's along the lines of what I would like to see possible. But on the subject of combating government. I have absolutely no ideas that an armed militia could sustain a direct confrontation with our nations armed forces. Anyone who would attempt it would be crazy. No one wants to kill or engage fellow Americans in combat. But, to have an organized group of people to deter local government(hopefully without shots fired) would be more along the lines of an acceptable solution. Example: Natural disaster occurs, Militia forms and takes care of the members family's first, then proceeds to help the area that they are in, expanding the area as the areas are cleared. Some idiot makes a stupid decision(huuupnaginhuup) Locals come to take away rights under the cloak of the fear of violence. We bassically say, we got this, this area is secure. Didn't some of the Katrina people hire security guards and refuse to let them disarm them. We are certain to have all relevant law documents available for their viewing pleasure. Document everything, I mean everything. Videotape the whole ordeal, contact the higher branches of our government, let them know what is occuring as it happens. See that's part of the Katrina deal, the mayor took it upon himself to enforce the gun confiscation. He had NO authority to do that. He was trying to put martial law into effect and from what I've seen and read he didn't have the authority to do it. It wasn't until after everything was said and done did the facts that this happened come to light. That would be a course of action to be considered. But God forbid, a holtile action would occur it would be the last resort. On a side note: The people following the orders my not know that the mayor doesn't have the authority to empliment martial law on his own. The president and I think the governer are the ones who that power is given to.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
Another thing. alexd has is spot on. I've got a strong suspicion that virtually all of the self-described Patriots wouldn't last 2 days in a fight with a modern 1st world military like the US. There's a lot of talk about having weapons capable of fighting tanks and body armor. But look at the insurgency in Iraq. Their weapon are a mixture of ancient Soviet junk, and home made bombs. Why do they put up a such a good fight? Ingenuity, hard earned experience, and toughness. Is that something most Americans, even the survivalist types have? Not even close. What would Al-Qaeda be like if they were all in their 40s or 50s, weighed 250+ lbs, spent most of their day sitting down at work or on the interweb, smoked, ate jerky, chewed Skoal and drank whiskey? What would terrorists be like if their desert training camps consisted of an hour or 2 of standing around shooting at targets and then 6 hours of drinking and telling stories? They would be a joke. And American militias are a joke. Tell me Patriots, what's your 2 mile run time? What do you know of guerrilla tactics? (Watching Red Dawn once a week doesn't count) Do you know what the weak parts of a 1025 up-armored HMMWV? Know how to build shaped charge roadside bombs? Even with all the full auto SBR AR-15s you can dream of, most "militia" types couldn't run more than 50 yards from the advancing enemy vehicle columns before either getting shot in the back, or keeling over from a heart attack. Probably both.
The Hadjis fought the Soviets, the Iranians, and each other for most of their lives. What have you ever done? I'm sure groups like the Michigan Militia are a lot of fun over the weekend. But the reality is, they have a lot more in common with teens playing Airsoft or paintball than they do with a real fighting force training for combat.
The Hadjis fought the Soviets, the Iranians, and each other for most of their lives. What have you ever done? I'm sure groups like the Michigan Militia are a lot of fun over the weekend. But the reality is, they have a lot more in common with teens playing Airsoft or paintball than they do with a real fighting force training for combat.
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Treo
member
Would I join a private military organization ? letmethinkaboutitno!
Immediately prior to the American revolution the crown crossed a lot of lines but without inciting an insurection. Every time the king crossed a line he pushed more & more people past the breaking point, when enough people got pushed over the line to tip the scale, the war started.
In essence the civil war started the same way.
The problem I see now is this. if the government pushes enough people over the line to the point where the people decide to take up arms to get redress. (BTW if /when it happens I'm positive the who's in charge question will sort itself out)
But the problem is do you think China is gonna stay out of it? do you think we aren't going to end up fighting a three front war as the American military tries to fight the American citizens AND what ever outside fources try to capitalize on our civil unrest ?
Immediately prior to the American revolution the crown crossed a lot of lines but without inciting an insurection. Every time the king crossed a line he pushed more & more people past the breaking point, when enough people got pushed over the line to tip the scale, the war started.
In essence the civil war started the same way.
The problem I see now is this. if the government pushes enough people over the line to the point where the people decide to take up arms to get redress. (BTW if /when it happens I'm positive the who's in charge question will sort itself out)
But the problem is do you think China is gonna stay out of it? do you think we aren't going to end up fighting a three front war as the American military tries to fight the American citizens AND what ever outside fources try to capitalize on our civil unrest ?
ZombiesAhead
Member
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- May 10, 2007
- Messages
- 460
treo:
That seems to connote something different than the traditional American militia...Most dictionary definitions define "military" as a full-time occupation. We (hypothetical "high road militia") are not full-time guerilla fighters nor full-time government military (army/navy/marines/air force).
Treo, you are missing the point. Any "high road militia" is not out to overthrow the government.
That seems to connote something different than the traditional American militia...Most dictionary definitions define "military" as a full-time occupation. We (hypothetical "high road militia") are not full-time guerilla fighters nor full-time government military (army/navy/marines/air force).
Treo, you are missing the point. Any "high road militia" is not out to overthrow the government.
JohnMcD348
Member
Likes been said before. I am the militia. I'm just not in a militia.
If something were to happen in this country(Red Dawnish), I would have aboslutely no hessitation to take arms and defend my land and my family to my last breath.
If something were to happen in this country(Red Dawnish), I would have aboslutely no hessitation to take arms and defend my land and my family to my last breath.
Treo
member
I'm not missing the point I'm trying to keep W/in the context that a couple of posters have mentioned, that of an entity whose sole purpose is to act as a check against a government that's overstepped its bounds.
I'm not a joiner ( said the guy that re-enlisted 3 times) I wouldn't sign up I'd help out but I wouldn't join.
I'm not a joiner ( said the guy that re-enlisted 3 times) I wouldn't sign up I'd help out but I wouldn't join.
ColinthePilot
Member
i'm in the military, but i would take my personal weapons and join a militia. I wouldn't see it as much of a change though. I've already sworn an oath to protect the constitution, so it would just be a matter of where my paycheck comes from. and I get the impression that militias pay about as well as volunteer fire departments.
QUOTE:
Quote:
Whatever the disagreement between the people and the government, it is not we the people bound by the U.S. Constitution, but the government, we the people are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights, not the government.
It is when the government exceeds the boundaries as set forth in the Constitution, as stewards and watchman over those appointed by us to carry out our will, when they cross that line, it is our duty to put them back in their proper place. What other more important reason for the implementation of the Second Amendment?
Quote:
Of course they want us to think that behavior is prohibited, "they" are the government and "we" are the "governed"........wrong answer. We the people retain all the power, most don't seem to want that obligation/responsibility, don't know it is their obligation/responsibility or just don't care.
Spoken like a true Patriot....there aren't many of us left.
This thread proves it.
~~~~~
YOU got that right!
Catherine - Montana
Quote:
Whatever the disagreement between the people and the government, it is not we the people bound by the U.S. Constitution, but the government, we the people are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights, not the government.
It is when the government exceeds the boundaries as set forth in the Constitution, as stewards and watchman over those appointed by us to carry out our will, when they cross that line, it is our duty to put them back in their proper place. What other more important reason for the implementation of the Second Amendment?
Quote:
Of course they want us to think that behavior is prohibited, "they" are the government and "we" are the "governed"........wrong answer. We the people retain all the power, most don't seem to want that obligation/responsibility, don't know it is their obligation/responsibility or just don't care.
Spoken like a true Patriot....there aren't many of us left.
This thread proves it.
~~~~~
YOU got that right!
Catherine - Montana
FourNineFoxtrot
Member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
- Messages
- 361
This is a dangerous question to leave somewhat unqualified.
If one refers to a militia being raised for the express purpose of enacting a violent, political revolution, then obviously "no". Now is not the time, here is not the place, and this is not the way, to go about such a thing. Ask me again when the federal government is about to prohibit civilian firearm ownership, or starts chipping people, or refuses to stand for reelection, or if a segment of the government seizes de facto control from legitimate, elected authority. And if any of that should come to pass, kindly do not ask me here, publicly, because I'll say no very loudly.
If one refers to a state or federal sanctioned and recognized militia not dissimilar in function from the National Guard, then the answer is still "no". One thing that is perhaps being overlooked here is that no militia that operates with the approval of a governing body is going to do anything to "fight tyranny and oppression", come the day. Governments are not in the habit of sanctioning armed bodies of men whose stated purpose is acting in an armed "watchdog" role over said Government. Any militia with the stated purpose of "preserving our freedoms" is implicitly antithetical to the interests of government, and therefore to be considered a threat... certainly not sanctioned.
For the time being, I consider myself part of the "unorganized militia", which has been mentioned in this thread many times already. And that is enough for now.
However, I would not mind seeing very, very local militias... small enough and independent enough (and numerous enough) to be relatively free of direct interference with state/federal government. Like a town militia, or a district militia, or county militia. That sort of thing. A very decentralized, part-time, inclusive, not-government-subsidized, generally non-threatening sort of organization, whose stated purpose is something fairly innocuous, like "providing manpower in the event of local emergencies". If this sort of phenomenon were allowed to become widespread, it would provide (I think) a useful nucleus of organization at the local level if Bad Things ever happened.
Not that such a thing would ever be allowed, of course.
Realistically, the only way to start a militia without getting your own FBI case file is by calling it anything but a militia. Don't start militias. Start... er... book clubs.
Anybody interested in joining my book club? heh.
If one refers to a militia being raised for the express purpose of enacting a violent, political revolution, then obviously "no". Now is not the time, here is not the place, and this is not the way, to go about such a thing. Ask me again when the federal government is about to prohibit civilian firearm ownership, or starts chipping people, or refuses to stand for reelection, or if a segment of the government seizes de facto control from legitimate, elected authority. And if any of that should come to pass, kindly do not ask me here, publicly, because I'll say no very loudly.
If one refers to a state or federal sanctioned and recognized militia not dissimilar in function from the National Guard, then the answer is still "no". One thing that is perhaps being overlooked here is that no militia that operates with the approval of a governing body is going to do anything to "fight tyranny and oppression", come the day. Governments are not in the habit of sanctioning armed bodies of men whose stated purpose is acting in an armed "watchdog" role over said Government. Any militia with the stated purpose of "preserving our freedoms" is implicitly antithetical to the interests of government, and therefore to be considered a threat... certainly not sanctioned.
For the time being, I consider myself part of the "unorganized militia", which has been mentioned in this thread many times already. And that is enough for now.
However, I would not mind seeing very, very local militias... small enough and independent enough (and numerous enough) to be relatively free of direct interference with state/federal government. Like a town militia, or a district militia, or county militia. That sort of thing. A very decentralized, part-time, inclusive, not-government-subsidized, generally non-threatening sort of organization, whose stated purpose is something fairly innocuous, like "providing manpower in the event of local emergencies". If this sort of phenomenon were allowed to become widespread, it would provide (I think) a useful nucleus of organization at the local level if Bad Things ever happened.
Not that such a thing would ever be allowed, of course.
Realistically, the only way to start a militia without getting your own FBI case file is by calling it anything but a militia. Don't start militias. Start... er... book clubs.
Anybody interested in joining my book club? heh.
primer
Member
The militia that I have in mind is for the sole purpose of helping/protecting the people and the peoples rights. A major offensive against the government isn't the purpose. If the situation of a local official oversteped his bounds and trampled on the rights of the people he was sworn to protect, it would act as a deterent. The objective would be to do no harm, but rather stop harm from coming to the citizens. Use of force would be the very LAST resort. But even then it would have extreme implications. It would have to be to the letter of the law. If not, the end result would be devastating. You would have to be able to prove that the law and peoples rights were being violated. You would also have to be fully informed of the situation with up to the minute facts. It is possible for our government to suspend our rights in extreme situations. It's not pretty, but it is a fact. And you would have to have up to the minute infomation on the status of it. The aggressor my start off breaking the law and violating rights, but if the situation changes and what they are doing becomes legal it would be important to have that information. Or you could end up facing the force of our military. That would suck
As far as engaging the military, I just really can't imagine that. I would hope/pray that the men and women that serve in the military would see what was going on before it comes to that. The men and women that serve in our military are great Americans and I think they would know wrongdoing when thay see it. Maybe it's just wishful thinking.
As far as engaging the military, I just really can't imagine that. I would hope/pray that the men and women that serve in the military would see what was going on before it comes to that. The men and women that serve in our military are great Americans and I think they would know wrongdoing when thay see it. Maybe it's just wishful thinking.
Prince Yamato
Member
See, I always thought the whole militia thing was interpreted thusly:
If things go to hell and the US Army is knocked to hell, you can band together members of your community as a surrogate US Army and you won't be charged with treason or something like that after the fact.
If things go to hell and the US Army is knocked to hell, you can band together members of your community as a surrogate US Army and you won't be charged with treason or something like that after the fact.
FourNineFoxtrot
Member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
- Messages
- 361
Prince Yamato said:
Certainly, if the US military is fighting a losing war on our own soil, or if it has been essentially destroyed as a fighting force, the legalities of raising a militia are the least of our worries. Although I would surely expect a wholesale draft if things got that bad, unless of course events occurred too quickly for mobilization of the army, the reserves, and draftees. In which case, I'm afraid, there is little for a citizen militia to do openly, its only option in what is presumably occupied territory being guerilla warfare, and such a militia might be more correctly termed "partisans".
There are militias, and there are militias. A wartime militia is a different animal than a "peacetime" militia. The former is a tool in any nation's arsenal, if one of limited use, generally. The latter, I had thought, is what this thread was intended to discuss.
Certainly, if the US military is fighting a losing war on our own soil, or if it has been essentially destroyed as a fighting force, the legalities of raising a militia are the least of our worries. Although I would surely expect a wholesale draft if things got that bad, unless of course events occurred too quickly for mobilization of the army, the reserves, and draftees. In which case, I'm afraid, there is little for a citizen militia to do openly, its only option in what is presumably occupied territory being guerilla warfare, and such a militia might be more correctly termed "partisans".
There are militias, and there are militias. A wartime militia is a different animal than a "peacetime" militia. The former is a tool in any nation's arsenal, if one of limited use, generally. The latter, I had thought, is what this thread was intended to discuss.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration.html
The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
The 56 signatures on the Declaration appear in the positions indicated:
~~~~~
More on the links...
Constitution
Bill of Rights
Etc.
We the people... we are the militia... individuals.
Most gun owners shoot more often, practice self defense, plink, some hunt, know and clean our firearms more often and most likely can shoot BETTER than some professions that qualify once, twice or ? times a year. Most of the military people that I know, including my late husband, who are INTO self defense and the RKBA issue considered themselves in a militia and it was even AFTER they retired from service. I know many who consider themselves in a 'militia' even in unorganized ones!
By the way, the MASS MEDIA and the government were ones that wanted to PORTRAY all militias like what SOME people want to think or believe what 'they say'!!! Ugh. Geesh!
There are SEVERAL organized and unorganized militias in this country who have a clue about self defense, defending this Republic, first aid, disaster response teams, etc. They are former or retired military people including ones who did not serve their country OFFICIALLY and MANY of them are professional people... you name it and their job skills!
I consider myself in my own militia. The goobmint wants to portray militias as x, y or z and give them ALL a bad name. On top of that, they want to portray them as terrorists or some other 'name' according to Homeland INsecurity. That is a fact when you start to read what is in those Pat Acts and other rules/regs.
Read what has been posted here... that will give you a clue.
By the way, the militia is NOT only about the National Guard or any other regular military or reserve group... some may THINK it is but it is not.
The gun CONTROL freaks want to make people think that BECAUSE they want them to think that ONLY the military and police should only own/use firearms along with those special rights people - politicos with THEIR taxpayer PAID protection!
Catherine - Armed and Female
Pro Militia - We the People ARE the Militia... all of us!
The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
The 56 signatures on the Declaration appear in the positions indicated:
~~~~~
More on the links...
Constitution
Bill of Rights
Etc.
We the people... we are the militia... individuals.
Most gun owners shoot more often, practice self defense, plink, some hunt, know and clean our firearms more often and most likely can shoot BETTER than some professions that qualify once, twice or ? times a year. Most of the military people that I know, including my late husband, who are INTO self defense and the RKBA issue considered themselves in a militia and it was even AFTER they retired from service. I know many who consider themselves in a 'militia' even in unorganized ones!
By the way, the MASS MEDIA and the government were ones that wanted to PORTRAY all militias like what SOME people want to think or believe what 'they say'!!! Ugh. Geesh!
There are SEVERAL organized and unorganized militias in this country who have a clue about self defense, defending this Republic, first aid, disaster response teams, etc. They are former or retired military people including ones who did not serve their country OFFICIALLY and MANY of them are professional people... you name it and their job skills!
I consider myself in my own militia. The goobmint wants to portray militias as x, y or z and give them ALL a bad name. On top of that, they want to portray them as terrorists or some other 'name' according to Homeland INsecurity. That is a fact when you start to read what is in those Pat Acts and other rules/regs.
Read what has been posted here... that will give you a clue.
By the way, the militia is NOT only about the National Guard or any other regular military or reserve group... some may THINK it is but it is not.
The gun CONTROL freaks want to make people think that BECAUSE they want them to think that ONLY the military and police should only own/use firearms along with those special rights people - politicos with THEIR taxpayer PAID protection!
Catherine - Armed and Female
Pro Militia - We the People ARE the Militia... all of us!
primer
Member
Prince Yamato, In some of the articles the I have been able the find there is mention of the militias being for that purpose, but I have also seen articles that state that there is more than one type of militia. That may be the case today. But I'm not convinced that it was the original purpose or intent. The second amendment seems to point to a militia in a way that it is to be a check against the infringment of our rights, possibly from our own government. Am I wrong?(serious question)
PS
PS:
I don't know about you gals or guys but I do believe in my God given right to self defense, defending my loved ones, a stranger in need, in defense of my country against foreign and domestic ENEMIES. I don't have to take an OATH to understand and know what I would do as a lady who CAN shoot if she was needed to do those things even if I am a female and going on 58 years old. I have many other important SKILLS and experience to contribute if needed for leadership in regular and emergency situations.
Catherine
PS:
I don't know about you gals or guys but I do believe in my God given right to self defense, defending my loved ones, a stranger in need, in defense of my country against foreign and domestic ENEMIES. I don't have to take an OATH to understand and know what I would do as a lady who CAN shoot if she was needed to do those things even if I am a female and going on 58 years old. I have many other important SKILLS and experience to contribute if needed for leadership in regular and emergency situations.
Catherine
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html
Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
It is a check - plain and simple. It protects all of your other rights and Amendments. IT is IGNORED in anti gun towns and states including the District of Criminals for now!
It means EXACTLY what it says... the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed NO matter what some teachers, new age thinkers, the mass media, the Brady Bunch, all anti gun U.N. - NWO control freaks and POLITICOS want to say and shove down your throat while they DISarm YOU and others!
Learn from history!
Catherine
It means EXACTLY what it says... the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed NO matter what some teachers, new age thinkers, the mass media, the Brady Bunch, all anti gun U.N. - NWO control freaks and POLITICOS want to say and shove down your throat while they DISarm YOU and others!
Learn from history!
Catherine
primer
Member
I think I'm going to talk to a veteran. Thank you Caterine! Other than the fact that all that reading made my eyes hurt
, I really appreciate the post. I think that it's just hard for me and some other people to think that it would really come to the extreme of having to protect against a domestic enemy of that magnitude.
, I really appreciate the post. I think that it's just hard for me and some other people to think that it would really come to the extreme of having to protect against a domestic enemy of that magnitude.You're very welcome. Best wishes!
Remember... NOT all Veterans think the same freedom loving way in GUN ISSUES! We, gun nuts, are all individuals you know! Grin. I have met a few Veterans and policemen who even thought that CCW and/or Open Carry was bad along with certain kinds of firearms - think evil black rifles or semi or full auto firearms! My late husband did NOT believe that along with most of my close military and civilian = NON military friends.
It is about FREEDOM - ALL of your freedoms including your own freedom. Your country's freedom. Gun control and ANTI GUN = ANTI FREEDOM.
Gun control and ANTI MILITIA = ANTI Second Amendment = ANTI FREEDOM in ALL freedom issues! My opinion.
Catherine = PRO FREEDOM
AGAINST gun control freaks... no matter how they want to put lipstick on that pig... it is still a pig. It is still the same issue with those folks! UGH.
Night... on vacation.
Remember... NOT all Veterans think the same freedom loving way in GUN ISSUES! We, gun nuts, are all individuals you know! Grin. I have met a few Veterans and policemen who even thought that CCW and/or Open Carry was bad along with certain kinds of firearms - think evil black rifles or semi or full auto firearms! My late husband did NOT believe that along with most of my close military and civilian = NON military friends.
It is about FREEDOM - ALL of your freedoms including your own freedom. Your country's freedom. Gun control and ANTI GUN = ANTI FREEDOM.
Gun control and ANTI MILITIA = ANTI Second Amendment = ANTI FREEDOM in ALL freedom issues! My opinion.
Catherine = PRO FREEDOM
AGAINST gun control freaks... no matter how they want to put lipstick on that pig... it is still a pig. It is still the same issue with those folks! UGH.
Night... on vacation.
- Status
