Militias?

[MicroBalrog]

After reading the site of several US militias:
If you were a member (commander?) of a group like that during SHTF, what tactics would you use?

 

[Derek Zeanah]

If you were a member (commander?) of a group like that during SHTF, what tactics would you use?

Uhhh. Find a new crew to hang out with.

They're harmless for the most part. If the "S" ever "HTF," I'd rather depend on a handful of friends who think like I do than on any "militia" that I've seen. Go check out www.awrm.org if you like -- they're trying to be a central place for militias to coordinate -- see if you're impressed by what you see.

If you're prior service (you're working as an armorer in Israel, right?) you'll probably start to giggle...

No offense to any militia members (or Commanders, or Generals, or whatever) hanging out here. You've got to wonder about organizations that claim a military rank structure and don't have any enlisted guys though.

 

[MicroBalrog]

If you're prior service (you're working as an armorer in Israel, right?) you'll probably start to giggle...

Right now I'm on sick leave (neurological, don't ask), but yes.

Our government sometimes encourages similar units. Given that they can't own weapons here, they issue them with arms. They let a factory or a settlement organise their own independent "readiness squads" to be activated in case of emergency in coordination with the military. One such group is the "Aliyah Battalion", a group of Russian military combat vets...

will now go and review that site.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

As to the point of your question...

Turn on the news and you'll see that a couple of hundred displaced Baathists are doing a pretty good job of thumbing their noses at the most powerful military force anyone in the world can mount, and few of them would be considered "good shooters" by the standards of most on this board. We even know (approximately) where they are, and how many they are.

Hint: force-on-force ain't the way to go with an opponent who has armor, arty, and air support.

 

[MicroBalrog]

Uhm, while that is interesting, I was thinking of two things:

1.Non-governmental SHTF, like maybe mass rioting or an earthquake's aftermath.

2.Defending a compound/building (in case of SHTF of any sort).

 

[carpettbaggerr]

Given that they can't own weapons here, they issue them with arms.

I thought I'd read that carrying, both concealed and unconcealed, was encouraged if not normal in Israel. I'd also thought that individuals could possess fully automatic weapons there? Was I mistaken?

 

[MicroBalrog]

I thought I'd read that carrying, both concealed and unconcealed, was encouraged if not normal in Israel.

Compared to NYC, yes, you're right, if you do get your handgun license (for 1 handgun) you may carry it wherever you want. But it's impossible for most people.

Only circa 4.4% people have firearms licenses to posess anything, that includes airguns.

I'd also thought that individuals could possess fully automatic weapons there? Was I mistaken?

Yes. No full-autos, for all practical purposes.

:banghead:

 

[Quartus]

The Rodney King riots provided some pointers on what it takes to handle rioters: Not much.


A few shopkeepers with small (handgus and an occasional AK or shotgun) arms and NO discernable plan did just fine.

Roving bands after a large natural disaster? A good defensive position, some accurate deterrent fire at extended ranges, and they'll move on for easier pickin's, which will be plentiful.


And assuming that is adequate could be a fatal mistake.

 

[MicroBalrog]

What about (possible Israeli SHTF's listed below):


1.Roving BG (terrorist? serial killer?) in the area. Modus Operandi here seems to be to get the "Readiness Group" (when available)break out the EBR's, surround BG and wait for the cavalry (when available ).

2.Pogrom (sometimes perpetrated by Jews vs. Israeli Arabs after a particularly large terrorist attack). Arabs don't havee EBR's or readiness groups, of course, but the local cops simply stand shoulder-to-shoulder to block approaches and shoot lots of rubber bullets.

Any other situation in which a militia/Readiness Group might be useful?

 

[Devonai]

I'll go do whatever the Governor of Massachusetts and the Adjutant General tell me to do. If the SHTF this will either be static security for a facility or area, or direct combat support for existing National Guard units within state lines.

I doubt the MVM will ever be on its own. Anything that can take the National Guard out of action will do the same to us in the process. The National Guard won't be completely deployed out of the state any time soon.

 

[sasnofear]

any point in militas?

 

[G-Raptor]

Most people, here and elsewhere misunderstand what the militia is and what it's purpose is, and yes, there is definitely a point to them.

The American media has successfully convinced most Americans that the militia consists of small groups of "military wannabe gun nuts" who run around the woods in camo outfits. This is blatantly wrong.

The "militia" is the armed citizenry of their respective states (and the nation). The militia exists in two parts, the "organized militia" (which is the National Guard), and the "unorganized militia (which is everyone else). Both the organized militia and the unorganized militia are at the call of the Governor of their state - and during times of national crisis, the President.

The various "militia groups" are part of the unorganized militia who have decided to meet regularly to train and associate with those of like mind. They have no "official" authority or role except when called by the Governor - but they are not doing anything illegal and are not a threat to the community. Naturally, there a few nutjobs in any organization, but that is not the norm.

During times of war (foreign assault), the nation's first line of defense is the "standing army" (i.e. the military armed forces). The second line of defense is the "organized militia" (National Guard). The final line of defense is the "unorganized militia", which would inlcude the various police agencies.

During times of peace (civil disturbance), the first line of defense is the police. The second line of defense is the National Guard (as directed by the Governor). The third line is the unorganized militia.

Short of massive foreign invasion or widespread rebellion against the government, I can't imagine any scenario where the "militia" groups would operate independent of some civil authority. In a SHTF scenario that required militia support, they would most likely be assigned to a National Guard unit, or at least placed under the authority of a NG officer.

 

[another okie]

There are still are state guards in a few states. I know New York is one of them, and it seems like there are more. I'll look it up. But these are semi-military organizations run by the state separate and apart from the federal National Guard structure.

 

[Devonai]

I'm not sure what you mean by "semi-military," Okie. In the case of the MVM we are part of the Massachusetts National Guard command structure. We are either military or we are not, i.e. on duty or not. Our mission is purely military in nature.

 

[c_yeager]

I think that the question was aimed at the more "fringey" civilian militias. (i tend tend to refer to them with the catch-all term "wackos"). From my very limited experiences with the membership of the militias (and survivalist groups) in my area they strike me as just the sort of people that i would AVOID at all costs if things really went south. All too often good ideas get polluted with ulterior motives. In many cases the militia and survilvalist communities are rife with racists and wannabe commanders-in-chief of some post-apocolyptic world order. im sure that there are plenty of exceptions to this. But, honestly if things REALLY did go nuts around here im going to be found with my friends and family. I trust them more than i trust anyone else and if im going to have to die for a cause its going to be for THEM and not some flakey political view.

 

[G-Raptor]

C_yeager,

I agree with the comment on the "wacko" fringe. Being of the "minority persuasion", if the SHTF and those guys roll out I think they would be more likely to shoot AT me than WITH me.

Many types of groups use the label (or are labeled as) militias. I believe most support the true intent while others have questionable motives.

My personal ideal of the militia are the guys I regularly shoot with. I guess I would consider them more "minutemen" than militia - they are not "well regulated" as they saying goes. They are however, well armed, reasonablely trained, and committed to their believes of (collective) freedom and individual liberty - but they are not looking for a fight. They couldn't march in a straight line through a narrow tunnel, but I believe they would give any fighting unit (or gang of thugs) fits if they had too. That's what the militia is all about.

 

[Quartus]

The militia exists in two parts, the "organized militia" (which is the National Guard),

Lessee here...

The Militia was used in the Revolutionary War, and was well understood and highly regarded in those days. It was under the command of the State.

The National Guard was invented in 1917 (er thereabouts) and is a Federal organization which is allowed to pretend to partly belong to the States as long as that suits the Federal Government.


(Don't think it's a Federal Organization? Commit a crime agains the NG and see who prosecutes you and under what laws. HINT: It won't be the State under State laws. See also where their paychecks come from.)


So, yeah, I can see how the NG is the militia.

 

[geegee]

I've lurked at a few of their sights (as I'm sure many who post here have), and some of what I read is silly, some disturbing, some downright pathetic. I'd like to believe that in some sort of national-dare I say it?-SHTF disaster, I'd like to know that I could count on other like minded individuals who are armed and ready to defend their families, property, and country. The problem I see is that some of the folks who get involved in these organizations drift so far into the fringe that it becomes hard to take them seriously. They see a new government take over around every corner. I think I have a healthy sense of paranoia, and I resent the erosion of liberties as much as the next person, but for all the discussion of what needs to be done, what exactly do they do?

For all their talk, what was their combined effort at helping out the folks at Waco (they had nearly two months to get involved), or Ruby Ridge. Would these not qualify as a couple examples of defining "lines in the sand" moments? Where were the militia patriots? Maybe these weren't extreme enough for the militia to rally around, but for what you read on their websites, these two events were tailor made for some action on their behalf. geegee

 

[Devonai]

It seems to me that if you're going to create a privately organized and funded militia group, you'd want to have a more mainstream conservative philosophy. If it were up to me I'd also drill on public land whenever possible, and allow only lawfully concealed weapons during those drills. I would also stress community service, and our mission would be solely to assist the local towns during a crisis. Any thought of marching against the government wouldn't be kosher.

Banding together during a crisis is admirable, but you NEED to drill together once in a while or you'll end up quite the cluster

 

[Jeff White]

Para-military training is illegal in many states. Most of these laws date back to the late '70s, early '80s when the Survivalist movement began getting a lot of press.

I'm going to close this one.

Jeff