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miltary arms for hunting??

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by brian923, Apr 27, 2009.

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  1. brian923

    brian923 Member

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    i have always wondered why so many say that military (surpluse rifle) should not be used for hunting?

    my qustion is just to see how many men and women here use their military arms for hunting as well.

    i want to take my garand and k98 mauser out for some hunts. i think that these guns are more than capable for cleanly taking game all around this wonderful contenent. what do you think?

    thanks, brian
     
  2. jacob.elliott

    jacob.elliott Member

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    2 mausers an enfield a Japanese arisaka and an sks. I own all and all have killed game very quckly and very DEAD.
     
  3. jimmyraythomason

    jimmyraythomason Member

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    Eight 98 Mausers(Gew98 and K98),Chinese SKS and U.S.G.I. .30cal Carbine. All game takers. DO NOT use military FMJ ammo to hunt with!
     
  4. jak67429

    jak67429 Member

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    Enfield, M1A, SKS If my AR for prairie dogs counts then all 4. Forgot my Dads 8mm mauser.
     
  5. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    Oh, they'll work, but I prefer a nice, light, handy scoped hunting rifle for serious meat collection. When I started hunting, early 60s, people really weren't into the surplus military thing all that much. Heck, there were still countries using the K98. LOL My first deer rifle was a Remington M722 in .257 Roberts. It's still neigh on the perfect deer rifle for Texas and hard to improve on. For sure can't be improved on with an SKS or other military gun IMHO. I've killed one deer with an SKS. I'll keep my hunting rifles for hunting. The SKS ks just fun and that's why I have it. Makes a neat ranch gun, too, for bumming around on the place. Will take vermin or a hog at the ranges I'm likely to see 'em down there. Even without a scope, though, it outweighs my M7 Remington in .308, isn't as accurate, nor as powerful. But, it has its place and it CAN be used for taking game, I've done it. But, I have much better hunting rifles.
     
  6. lukepriebe

    lukepriebe Member

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    Took my first deer with an M1 cabine and my dad has killed more than his fair share if deer with his Garand.
     
  7. steveracer

    steveracer Member

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    I shot a deer two years ago with a 1911. Does that count?
     
  8. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    Brother uses an 8mm Mauser for elk. Quite adequate.
     
  9. paintballdude902

    paintballdude902 Member

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    i have taken my enfield fr-8 m1 carbine and my mosin

    that have all taken an animal without a problem
     
  10. mbt2001

    mbt2001 Member

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    The Moisin Nagant is a legitimate and deadly hunting rifle. Likewise the .30-06 round and platform has been used extensively in North America, as has the .303 been used in Africa from the Enfeld platform.

    The .308 has also been used from surplus rifles on game to great effect.

    So I am not sure who told you that "you are not to use them" they were mistaken.
     
  11. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    The term "sporterized" comes from altering military surplus Enfields and '03 Springfields and SMLEs to make them more suited to hunting. You can find endless examples of '98 Mausers that were put into "sporting" stocks dating from just after WWII on. Heck, there are plenty of sporting stocks for Mosin Nagants available.

    So, there are plenty of milsurp rifles that have been taken to the hunting camp in original or modified form.
     
  12. Olympus

    Olympus Member

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    I guess I've never heard anyone saying not to use military surplus rifles for hunting. Most military rifles are chambered in great rounds. They're also usually well worn so people don't hesitate to take them into the woods. They generally heavier than modern rifles and the sighting systems are slightly more crude than modern rifles. That could be why you've heard that before. But as long as you know how to shoot your prospective rifle accurately, I say take the milsurp rifle to the woods. It might even make you feel like you're in the old days again!
     
  13. caribou

    caribou Member

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    A Finned M-39 Mosin Nagant is my all around Hunting rifle.

    Ive used an K98k, 1917 enfeild , an M-91 , and a Czeck M-24.
    I love my M-39!

    I also use Czech milsurp ammo , because its Soooooo Goood.:D
    Mil surp ammo come in Big boxes, usually, so I can shoot all Month long.

    The Rifle was made to be able to stand up to the use I give it, is Very accurate and has a "Coolness" all its own.
     
  14. Mp7

    Mp7 Member

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    isn´t the K98 the base for most bolt action hunting rifles today?
     
  15. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    The design, with modifications, yes. The actual gun, no. Most modern hunting rifles don't have claw extractors or static ejectors, not that this isn't a desirable feature on a Mauser, it is, I'm just sayin'. You will find sporting guns with "controlled round feed" advertising the point, though I can take it or leave it. I guess it's a good feature for a dangerous game gun, but I've never had a problem with my Remingtons feeding. Some bolt guns use 3 lugs and 60 degree bolt throws for a little more speed (Browning A bolt). But, they are all on the original Mauser pattern much as most semi auto pistols, while they might not resemble the 1911, use John Brownings locked breech idea in one way or the other.

    Sporterizing military bolt guns used to be popular 50 years ago because you could pick up a K98 mail order in VG condition for 25 bucks or less and modify it cheaper than buying an equivalently good sporting arm. Back then, gunsmiths worked pretty cheap, too. Those days are over. You can buy a Remington 700 cheaper than you can buy a K98 and turn the bolt, drill and tap,mod the stock, etc. Savages are excellent sporting rifles, very accurate, and can be had for cheaper than a decent surplus K98 BEFORE the mods. There is no longer an economic reason to sporterize a military gun, not when such quality sporting rifles can be had for such a reasonable price.

    And, hell, if I can shoot game with a friggin' handgun, a black powder Hawken rifle, and even practicing up with my re-curve bow, though I haven't shot game with it, why couldn't I use my Mauser or my Hakim in 8x57 if I wanted to? I've used a LOT less caliber/weapon to kill deer and hogs.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  16. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Brian, I've never heard the word "shouldn't" used about hunting with military surplus rifles.

    Up until the 1950s, there were no really lightweight alternatives. And, not all that many options for cartridges if you got away from lever actions.

    In today's world, as McG pointed out, sporterized military rifles are not cost effective. And, nowadays, there are beaucoup options for cartridges that are much different from the common-use military.

    And even the most common military cartridges, the .223 and the 7.62x39, have had development of hunting bullets.
     
  17. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Cool. Keeps you pointing into the wind at all times - is that the idea? :neener: :D

    Caribou shows us that the proof is in the pudding up there in verycoldland.

    I've never heard that - where do you live that people say this?
     
  18. Pulse

    Pulse Member

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    never heard that one should not use military surplus rifles for hunting, but i sure as hell heard that one should not use military surplus ammo for hunting.
     
  19. Dr.Rob

    Dr.Rob Moderator Staff Member

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    Would not hesitate to take my Kar98K hunting. I'd load it with softpoints of course, but no hesitation with the rifle or caliber.
     
  20. Eric F

    Eric F Member

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    Well I had a mosin nagant then moved to an enfield RFI 308 oh and a daewoo dr200 for varmits for a while although not a military surplus it is a civilian copy of a military rifle.
     
  21. Reid73

    Reid73 Member

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    Perhaps Brian was thinking of Jim Zumbo's comments:
    Hunters and shooters are an opinionated lot. The above is one person's opinion, and I'm sure it is shared by others. It's also easy to find hunters who dislike handguns, magnums, lever actions, etc. etc. However, the 'bottom line' is that everyone is free to use whatever firearm they prefer, as long is it complies with applicable legal requirements/restrictions.

    Yes, I agree. It just isn't suitable (or humane).
     
  22. hoosier8

    hoosier8 Member

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    All rifles used for hunting were originally derived from military rifles so it should come as no surprise that the current batch will be used for hunting. The flintlock, lever action, and bolt action rifles can trace their history back to military development before ever being used for hunting. You would not think twice about taking a lever action rifle hunting today but when they were first used for hunting, there were those that thought it was a bad thing and unfair for the animals.

    History tends to repeat itself.

    I do hear this all of the time from certain people.

    Would a person be terrorizing the world with their once military style rifle they use for hunting? Is it accurate? If a particular style of rifle, as defined by Congress (where the definition of "Assault Weapon" was made with the AWB), has no place in hunting, then no rifle has a place in hunting. If history were known and rational thought used, one would come to the same conclusion. Right now there is no formal definition of Assault Weapon with the retirement of the last AWB, only the fear bandied about as fact by those aspiring for the power to control what you think and do. I, for one, will not let them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  23. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    Most states have laws restricting ammo capacity on firearms used for hunting. Typically the rule is 5 rounds for rifles. By the same token, military rifles frequently could hold more rounds than this. Plugging a fixed magazine isn't exactly the easiest thing to do, either, due to the leaf springs, and, until recently, you were unable to come by 5-round Garand en bloc clips (CtD has them). These laws frequently made it difficult or even outright impossible to hunt with a military firearm.

    This is why I'm glad I live in Arizona. The magazine capacity limit applies exclusively to semi-automatic rifles, and it says nothing about detachable magazines, so you can have a true 5-round magazine, not just 4+1. Or if you've got a centerfire handgun as a sidearm, you can load the magazine to its maximum capacity. The only real restriction is no FMJ ammo.
     
  24. Deer Hunter

    Deer Hunter Member

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    Not all military surplus bullets are created equally. You are kidding yourself if you think they are.

    Take bulgarian 53 grain 5.45 and place it next to some Wolf 70 grain 5.45. Look exactly the same, and convential wisdom would say that the 70 grain stuff, if one had to choose, would be better.

    But the bulgarian causes a MESS when it hits something. Whereas the wolf just kinda pokes a small hole.

    Now let's talk about Caribou's choice. Czech Silvertip lightball. It's a 148 grain bullet traveling at around 2800 fps out of his rifle. It does this when it hits things.

    [​IMG]

    Courtesy of Brassfetcher.com

    Don't ever judge a bullet by its cover. Just because you spend over 2 dollars a round on your newest wiz-bang bullet combination from X company doesn't mean it'll do any better than what has been availible for years. On another thread I discussed the potential downside of buying premium ammunition for casual hunters, arguing that because the ammo costs so much they usually don't practice nearly enough with it to become proficient. I have seen this personally with the guys that hunt on my land. They put a round through their gun at Carter's Country at the 50 yard line and then come out and try to shoot a deer at usually closer distances.

    I'll say it again, the bullet is not the most important thing about obtaining a clean kill. I use the cheapest serbian soft-points I can find at academy and use them in my FN FAL when it comes to fill the freezer.

    Ask the deer if they care one way or the other.
     
  25. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    You're quite correct in that, Deer Hunter. I chose .223 68 grain Black Hills hollowpoints for my javelina hunt, primarily because it was the only non-FMJ round I could find above 55-grain and at or below 68, and 68 grain was the exact optimal weight for my rifle's twist rate. I had originally wanted to use soft points, but none were available. Every single round went straight throught. No expansion, no tumbling. Not a single bullet or even a fragment was left in the animal. It took a perfect shot to the vitals (heart and both lungs) to put the animal down.

    Were I to do this again, I would go for a lighter weight bullet in a design that is more likely to expand. This round was clearly too much for a javelina at 100 yards. Even my guide, an experience hunter, was surprised, as he had thought 68-grain was the bare minimum (he later told me he didn't want to discourage me, so he didn't say anything until later). No, a 68-grain bullet will go clean through if it doesn't mushroom. I had originally wanted to use soft points because I knew soft points were guaranteed expansion, whereas various things can affect hollowpoints. But, to bastardize a certain quote, "You go on the hunting trip with the ammo you have, not the ammo you would like to have."
     
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