Milwaukee shootings - Mayor responds

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security6

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From: http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=683887

Residents of south side divided on whom to blame
Shootings that injured 5 are likely related, mayor says
By LINDA SPICE
[email protected]
Posted: Nov. 7, 2007
In the south side neighborhood where at least four dozen gunshots injured five people in a chaotic series of shootouts Tuesday night, most people were reluctant to talk Wednesday, and others were divided about whether gangs are to blame for the violence.


At the corner of S. 12th and W. Madison streets, bullet holes marked by evidence technicians as "46" and "47" splintered the siding on the back of Eddy's convenience store. Owner Fayz Hussein heard the gunfire just before one of the victims ran through his front door holding a dog.

"He said, 'Someone is shooting outside,' " Hussein recalled. The boy was screaming and crying. Then he ran toward the back of the small store and fell to the ground, wounded in his legs, Hussein said.

More bullet holes scarred a truck and at least two homes along Madison St. Terry Bounds said his 10-year-old daughter and his wife's 17-year-old cousin were inside when his house was hit with gunfire. They were not hurt.

He blamed trouble in the area on poverty and the lack of connections between police and neighbors.

"We don't have kids throwing up gang signs on the corner," he said. "It's not the gangs. It's young kids who are broke with no money."

Deanna Silvas, however, said she has seen kids wearing gang colors and "knew it was a matter of time" before something would happen. She said she moved to 12th and Madison recently from S. 5th and W. Maple streets to get away from gunfire that she said had become too common in that neighborhood.

Around the corner at S. 14th St. and W. Greenfield Ave., where the two officers were shot moments later, residents spoke of problems with drugs, prostitution and shootings. They spoke with anger and cynicism about police response to the area, saying it was usually slow or sometimes wouldn't happen at all.

Two victims in critical condition
Police said two boys, ages 15 and 16, victims in the first shooting, were in critical condition Tuesday night; no updated conditions were available Wednesday.

A 26-year-old police officer remained stable Wednesday at Froedtert Hospital in Wauwatosa, recovering from a gunshot wound to the groin. He is expected to survive. A 31-year-old officer shot in the shoulder was treated Tuesday night and released.

The officers had been called in as backup after drug investigators heard shots fired from Madison St. and saw suspected shooters. The officers, also members of the vice control and intelligence unit, were showered with gunshots as they arrived, police said, and returned fire. One of the suspects, a 15-year-old boy, was hit. Both he and a second suspect, a 24-year-old man, were arrested.

District Attorney John Chisholm and investigators from his office were on the scene Tuesday night. Deputy District Attorney Kent Lovern said the office doesn't have all the police reports yet and would have a better idea of who might be charged with what by the end of the week.

Police Chief Nannette Hegerty is scheduled to talk about the case at a news conference this morning. She made no official statements Wednesday. Police Department spokeswoman Anne E. Schwartz said the chief was visiting the wounded officer at the hospital and was attending previously scheduled training with command staff.

Mayor Tom Barrett spoke Wednesday morning, confirming that the two shootings were likely related and praising the work of the police officers involved.

"This incident is a reminder of the bravery of the men and women of the Milwaukee Police Department who put their lives on the line every single day," Barrett said during a news conference at City Hall. "These individuals knew that there had just been shots fired. They had the description of the individuals. They were looking for people with guns. They clearly knew they were facing danger when they entered this scene, and they did it to protect the public."

Barrett said the fact that a squad car responded so soon after police surveillance officers reported the first shooting shows the city is well covered. Then he asked why a 15-year-old would have a semiautomatic weapon with a high-capacity magazine.

"Just the fact that someone cares so little about human life in this community that they are willing to give a gun to a 15-year-old shows you there's a real problem with the moral compass of some people in this community," he said.

The mayor said he hoped Tuesday's shootings might spur debate at both the state and national level about the availability and legality of large-capacity magazines.

He said he would continue to address crime by putting more officers on the streets and by working with faith-based initiatives and families to address crime.

"But there comes a time when parents have to step forward and say, 'I will be responsible for my children,' " Barrett said. "That's what we have to press upon this community. There has to be a moral compass in this community for these young people, and if we don't have that, then we can't be shocked by these actions. But we have to remain shocked by these actions because if we don't, we are going to be paralyzed into doing nothing."
(empahsis added)


So residents blame this incident on poverty, a lack of police-citizen connections, and slow police reponse to the area. The mayor responds by blaming the problem on high-capacity magazines, although to his credit he did say that parents need to be more responsible for their kids.
 
Even in Chicago we're finally starting to get some of the more liberal Tribune columnists, like Eric Zorn, to acknowledge that the problem may be more deeply rooted than any new gun control laws might resolve.

When the community lives and dies (literally) by the "Don't snitch" code then they are putting their own children at risk from these animals.

To be absolutely brutal about it, the loss of a few innocent children each year is like a blood tax they pay for the stupidity of the self-imposed community rules they choose to live with.

Want to save your children? Call the police and turn in a gang banger and their guns now. Make it downright impossible for them to hide the guns or run their drug business from your corner.

Every community minister and parent that has been showing up at these anti-gun marches with Jesse and Flaky Pfleger is a shameful hypocrite. They already know who the gang members are and many know where they hide their guns. But they are afraid to tell the police. Afraid of both retribution by gang members and from being ostracized from the community by their neighbors.

About two years ago we had an older man on the South Side speak out against the gang members in his neighborhood after a child was killed in the crossfire. The police provided some security from the gang members, but his own neighbors eventually drove him out of the community because he broke the Don't Snitch to the cops rule.

Daley will never admit any of this though because it would mean alienating a majority of his voters. It's always easier to blame the gun shops and manufacturers to distract people from the truth and facts.
 
My parents were poor.

My parents grew up during the depression. Neither graduated from high school. My dad lost his job many times and never made a lot of money - my mom was a waitress and she made about as much as my dad when he was working. I myself was in poverty most of my life and when I was 30 I lost my job and was evicted from my home.

My parents wern't out robbing liqour stores, blaming 'the man', or doing anything illegal. We were poor so that meant we didn't do what we couldn't afford. If something cost too much we didn't do it or we got a second minimun wage job and saved up until we could afford it. We payed the bills first, not last. Never once do I recall thinking that we were poor, pissed on, or repressed. We just didn't have a lot of money but what we had we gave thanks for and appreciated. Then again, we didn't have Al Sharpton in our church telling us that poverty causes people to rob liqour stores.

My dad was abandoned at birth and got kicked from foster home to foster home and I never once heard him bring this up, much less bitch about it or blame anyone. I would have never known had my mother not told me this. He raised a family of four boys and took us out hunting and fishing - never ran out when the going got tough.

I'm white. Am I allowed to say that?

After I lost my job in a small southern town, we moved in with parents (up north). My wife went back to school and I switched to computer work. She graduated three years later (while working midnight shift FedEx) and scored a high tech job. We are now back on our feet. Hard work. That's what I'm talking about. Hard work. Stay off drugs. Pay your bills first. Don't do what you can't afford.

If poverty causes crime, then how come our forebears were better people than us? Many of our parents grew up in shacks with dirt floors. I often wonder why the Chinese who are decended from railroad workers aren't out bitching that they are decendents of exploited workers ... Only in America can you rob a liqour store and when you are jailed you can say you are a 'political prisoner' because of your race - and the local moonbats will have a 'march for justice' on your behalf - with Jesee J and Al Sharpton leading the march.
 
I think I might have an idea that might help. As police officers retire, replace them with ex-gangbanger black males -police officers that the locals can relate to, possibly even know personally. Hire people that aren't that riled up about drugs or firearms, and possibly have these people unofficially and off the record encourage firearm ownership for peaceful residents to help discourage gang violence.

And example of this is a police officer I know, except he worked in a very safe area of Michigan. He simply ignored neons on cars and fireworks as long as they weren't being set off in crowded areas.

Another is a police officer from Colorado who encouraged somebody I know to carry concealed with no license illegally, because the particular area was quite dangerous.

Let the residents know, that as long as they aren't unprovoked (meaning self defense should be encourage) and violent, their crimes will go unnoticed. But the second that they start flashing gang signs and lighting each other up, make it very clear that the police will descend upon them in a Blitzkrieg.

Maybe then they won't think about it as "snitching", merely asking your neighbor for some help, who happens to work for the police. I just feel you would get less of this incidents if people treated the police as their friends. If they felt the polcie were not there to kill their buzz or simply cause them aggravation due to whatever reason, if they were merely there to keep that angry looking bunch of hooligans from the other side of town from causing mayhem (who happen to dress in different colors from the angry looking hooligans on your side of town), I think things would be much smoother.

Of course, this would never happen. It's far too easy. Let's have another outreach program, or some lame government sponsored campaign with some mindless slogan. Hey! How about more gun control, that's worked everytime before!
 
The moral decay, lack of personal responsibility, and lack of positive parental role models is the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. I'ts a lot easier to blame a thing than to be honest about why the problem exists. :fire:
 
As police officers retire, replace them with ex-gangbanger black males -police officers that the locals can relate to, possibly even know personally.
Chicago and DC both have substantial numbers of gang members on their police forces. Does not seem to help any.
 
When Milwaukee's police chief was Harold Brier and the mayor was Henry Meyer, this sort of garbage didn't occur. Things have changed -- and not for the better.:(
 
Lance, you are blessed.

That mayor does not deserve the last name Barrett. I do really like how the government did nothing wrong in that case. By that i mean according to him the police, his office, etc, did nothing wrong. The parents are questionable, but what it all boils down to is the high cap magazines. if you got rid of those the kids would stop killing other kids. they would all stop doing drugs and selling themselves.

people are saying that gangs are going to make their way down the highway(from chicago) to our little town. I'll tell them right now they'll regret it. The people are welcome, the gangs are not.
 
Latest reports last night showed the two guns involved as a standard looking semi-auto like a 9mm, and one that looked like a Mac-10 with a silencer. Reports said the shooters had spare magazines as well, and that the police were undercover and responding to a shooting call. The local Latin Kings are reported to be the gang in question and that the initial shooting was gang related. Fairly sure the silencer wasn't registered, and know the 15 year old wasn't supposed to be armed, no reports yet last I checked if the Mac-like gun was semi or full auto.

Just great. Sort of adds additional perspective to the situation and of visiting the area down there. We've had dinner at some of the restaurants in that area as well as shop at some stores around there.

Just sad. Don't talk + don't tell = no resolution to the problems.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=684295
hinesj1110907.jpg
 
The problem is not the ammunition capacity of the magazines, the problem is the evil capacity of the criminals. The lack of religious and moral codes, and the lack of parental rules and behavior reinforcement has led to a generation that has no self discipline and no fear of discipline by any authority. They have learned that what they want, they are entitled to, and they can just take it using whatever means is most expedient. The right to life is not important to them, and the glorifying of death and destruction in the entertainment industry has created a callousness of attitude that permeates the generation.

As the family unit has been eroded by unchecked divorce, and the free sex morality has resulted in unwed mothers who were encouraged by government welfare systems to keep having babies as a means of support, the crime problem has exploded. When the youth see no visible means of support, except a welfare check, and have no father figure except a social worker, and are allowed to run free with no supervision and with no consequences for their mischief, then they see no reason to work or obey authority.

The availability of firearms has not caused the increase in violence, it has just made the violence easier to commit; instead of having to get up close and personal, as with a blade or a club, the gun allows force to be projected from a distance which makes violence safer for the criminal. That safety for the criminal with a gun can only be eliminated when the victims of criminal attack start shooting back at the attackers.

The police can not stop the crimes (there are too few police to do that, and we don't want to live in a police state), so that leaves the responsibility of self-defense to the person that is being attacked; the one being attacked and needing to defend themselves may in fact be a criminal and have victimized other innocent people. Disarming the law abiding and innocent people only encourages the violent criminals to continue committing violence. The criminals will not obey laws passed to disarm them; the only way to create an even force projection is to encourage the lawful citizens to carry firearms at all times, and to ensure that they are proficient in the use of those firearms.

The government has a responsibility to provide training for the citizen Militia, who have the responsibility to provide their own arms for the defense of self and society. The government has abdicated it's responsibility to train the militia and to provide ammunition for that training, and is now conspiring to prevent the people from meeting their duties as citizens, by depriving the citizens of their natural human right of self-defense. That situation is exacerbated by citizens that have been conditioned by years of government 'entitlement' programs to be dependent on government for everything, instead of having the government dependant of self-reliant citizens with a sense of personal responsibility and duty.

The question we all need to ask, is HOW do we turn this situation around, and restore order to our society? It certainly is NOT by making everyone more dependent on government.
 
The question we all need to ask, is HOW do we turn this situation around, and restore order to our society? It certainly is NOT by making everyone more dependent on government.

One of Many, thanks for the great post. There is no single answer but one thing I know is that everyone who cares about these issues need to be registered to vote and to actually show up on voting day to let their voice be heard. We need to support and vote for candidates who will defend the Constitution.
 
The mayor said he hoped Tuesday's shootings might spur debate at both the state and national level about the availability and legality of large-capacity magazines.
Right. If the kid had a 38 Special revolver, or a sawed-off shotgun, that would make everything all right.
 
I guess it's time to pass another law, make carrying guns "Double Super Secret Illegal" in Wisconsin and tout how we "did something" about "Gun Crime".

Clearly no one can kill people with six 10 round magazines rather than four 15 round magazines. This logic is flawless don't even try to dispute it or I will respond by calling you ignorant, stupid, fascist, and baby killer. And if after I call you all those names you continue to debate I will ignore you and continue to repeat what I have decided is correct despite all evidence to the contrary.

There I got the anti-gun side of the argument out of the way, and the adults can discuss real solutions.
 
Interesting that

the community perceives that the police do not respond, but when other police call them they do.
 
Interesting that

the community perceives that the police do not respond, but when other police call them they do.

I think that is a pretty fair perception. average police call for help gets a whole lot more response than average citizen call for help. not all that surprising.

An interesting anecdote. A friend of mine many years ago got traffic stopped. Cop took his DL and went back to his squad. A few minutes later cop takes off still holding DL. Friend waits a few minutes trying to decide what to do, eventually decides to go home planning to call police station in morning to ask about his DL. Several hours later cops show up at his home and threaten to charge him with evasion (I think that was what they were calling it) for going home, and take him to station.

Eventually they decide to let him go, but now he is like 5 miles away from home in the middle of the night. Cops will not let him use the phone there, and he has no money for pay phone to call anyone or to take cab. Cops think is very funny. Ends up walking home.

later, he found out the cop took off cause he went to backup his BIL (a cop in a nearby town).
 
Response time in Milwaukee isn't that great. The cops have a lot on their hands. But when a fellow officer is in trouble, all the others are on the way. I'd be the same way if I were a cop.

I live just five doors south of Milwaukee in a suburb. I called the non-emergency number last night to let them know my wife's car had been egged the night before. A squad was at my home in five minutes.

As for Mayor Barrett, he's a lifelong anti. He was the congressman for Milwaukee's north side for many years, and his voting record is rated F by the NRA. God forbid he would lay the blame on anything other than guns.
 
I live just five doors south of Milwaukee in a suburb. I called the non-emergency number last night to let them know my wife's car had been egged the night before. A squad was at my home in five minutes.

I called the locals once a few years ago because I could hear breaking glass at the pole barn next door. Two squads showed up from opposite directions within about ten minutes. Just missed the three kids who had been out there drinking and throwing their empties against the pole barn.

Sixty seconds earlier and they would have had them.
 
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