Mini-14 Scope Placement

[Snowblind]

So, my Mini-14 came with a factory-made picatinny-style rail designed to fit over the breech, where the factory scope rings go.

I decided it was a nifty (and FREE in that it came with the gun) way to mount my red-dot sight. Originally I had thought of doing a scout-style setup by replacing the handguard with a railed one, but since I already had the rail, I gave this a go.

As of now it's set up like this:



However this presents a few interesting issues. For starters, I've had three spent casings get wedged in the action between the scope and the top of the action bar. I've owned the gun for about three weeks and put nearly 700 rounds through it, so 3/700 isn't bad (as this was the only malfunction to date), but still kind of annoying.

The other issue is that it seems to be acting as an unintentional brass deflector. The rail has a cutout, presumably for the brass to clear it, but I'm getting little gold impact marks all on the underside of the rail, and tiny flecks of brass all over the place after I'm done shooting. Not only that, but after the last run I found a few golden pockmarks in the lip of the scope itself! Could it be that the brass is shooting up into the rail before bouncing out? if the brass is hitting either the rail or the scope, that really can't be good for accuracy or the long-term life of the scope...

Thoughts?

 

[Sheepdog1968]

The brass marks don't bother me. The three in 700 would personally bother me IF this is a self defense weapon (as opposed to a range toy). If it is planned to be a self defense weapon, I personally would go with a forward mounted position or just irons.

By the way, I had a firearm that had three malfunctions that I couldn't attribute to a user induced error. This was over five thousand rounds. I sent it to the manufacturer to get some areas polished because I was concerned about reliability. I've had 7,000 trouble free rounds since. It is a self defense weapon and I personally tend to be really fussy about reliability.

 

[Art Eatman]

I'd do some judicious grinding of the underneath side of the rail, on its right. Likely wouldn't hurt its strength.

 

[Riomouse911]

Last week I spent 2 days sighting in and cleaning 65 mini 14's at the range, I swear if I see another I wil faint. As for reliablility, if it isn't 100%, it isn't reliable.

That being said; Mini's eject "briskly", with the case being pulled upwards for a little bit (to clear the port) and then kicked out to the right by the ejector, often with cases landing 10+ feet away. You will start get a brass stain on the operating handle where the case hits it on the way out (see video for slow-mo operation, you can see the case hit the handle then kick away, especially on the last "bolt hold open" shot.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbQnB9Sy7ks

The scope rings set the scope up higher than that rail sits, allowing the case to clear without hitting it. If ANYTHING is getting hit other than that handle, there is an issue...IMHO the rail is too low, changing the dynamics of the ejection when the case is hitting it. If the dot is also getting hit, it is just a matter of time before it is knocked silly.

You might be able to dremel some material from the rail and open up the area to allow the case to clear it cleanly. If this doesn't work, get a forward mounted picatinny rail and keep the port clear of all obstructions.

 

[wally]

So, my Mini-14 came with a factory-made picatinny-style rail designed to fit over the breech, where the factory scope rings go.

Are you sure this rail was made by the Ruger factory? My Mini came with Ruger 1" rings. The problem you are having sounds like when I tried one of the aftermarket Mini-14 rails.
Riomouse911 has given a good explanation of what is happening.

 

[Riomouse911]

Here is a better quality mini-14 firing vid, from different angles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPy4ud7NaOc

 

[M1key]

Mini-14s tend to have very robust extraction/ejection, throwing brass into the next county.

A possible fix might be to replace your gas port with a smaller one to cut down on the amount of gas to your op rod. This should help minimize or eliminate the problem.

Gundoc at GreatWestGunsmithing.com makes a 5-pack of assorted sized ports to "tune" your rifle for optimum performance.

Also many folks on the Perfect Union forum report good results with adding a 1911 style buffer on the back end of the mainspring assembly to help dampen the recoil operation a bit.

Good luck

M

 

[Ironman615]

I think Riomouse has identified the problem. I'm considering trying a red dot on my Mini-14, and I've just about decided to go with scout-type rail mount. Replacing the top hand guard with a rail is a little more expensive, but it should be trouble free.

 

[Apple a Day]

The problem I have with that setup is getting the bolt out for cleaning without removing the rail/optic. I got a forward rail rig and did a scout mount with an EER scope. No worries.

 

[Snowblind]

Are you sure this rail was made by the Ruger factory? My Mini came with Ruger 1" rings. The problem you are having sounds like when I tried one of the aftermarket Mini-14 rails.
Riomouse911 has given a good explanation of what is happening.

As far as I know, it is... came in the Ruger factory box packed with all the other Ruger factory stuff. It did also come with Ruger scope rings.

My buddy had actually snapped a photo of the first jam I had and sent it to me. It was really wedged in there!



Seems like the only fix is just to not have the scope there. I wasn't thrilled by the price of most of the forend rail mounts, but I guess it is what it is.

 

[M1key]

Just move the red dot further back on the rail.

M

 

[Apple a Day]

Another solution to consider: add a riser and make the optic sit higher. With more clearance the empties shouldn't get wedged but it would mean that you have a higher line of sight.

 

[Snowblind]

Just move the red dot further back on the rail.

M

Gonna give that a try for now, before moving to more expensive solutions.

I've moved it all the way back on the rail, and the base actually clears the cutout in the rail now. Hopefully that means the shells will be obstruction-free.

I was curious though, the recommendations for red dots are to mount it as far forward as you can, and now I've done the exact opposite. I still like the sight picture, I'm just looking through more of the optic, is that really going to make much difference?

 

[Jackal]

I actually prefer close up placement of my red dots. Unless you do a lot of both eyes open rapid target transitions, close placement is perfectly fine. I hate having my optic sitting right above my charging handle.

 

[M1key]

I prefer my red dots mounted more to the rear. I do not like scout-style forward mounted optics at all...

M

 

[hentown]

Just move the red dot further back on the rail.

M

What?? Injecting logical, cogent thought into a thread like this?? What's this forum coming to??

OF COURSE move the scope back a little! There is no eye-relief problem with that scope. I have five of them mounted on various firearms.

 

[Snowblind]

I actually prefer close up placement of my red dots. Unless you do a lot of both eyes open rapid target transitions, close placement is perfectly fine. I hate having my optic sitting right above my charging handle.

Jackal, I do like having the ability to leave both eyes open with the red dot, typically unless I'm at the bench this is how I shoot. Am I going to find it hard to work with now that I've moved it all the way back?

hentown, it was not so much a matter of eye-relief, just trying to best take advantage of the red dot's properties. Like I said, general advice you get is to mount it forward.

 

[Tommy Medlin]

Just move the red dot further back on the rail.

M

X2,move the scope back,eye relief is not a problem with a red dot. Sorry about the repetition,posted before reading earlier post !!

 

[wally]

I do like having the ability to leave both eyes open with the red dot, typically unless I'm at the bench this is how I shoot. Am I going to find it hard to work with now that I've moved it all the way back?

Only you can tell if it'll work for you or not, shoulder the unloaded rifle and aim at something 25+ yards away, if you get a good view looking through the dot at the target with both eyes open, I'd wager it'll work for you.

Let us know if moving it back solves the ejection problem or not, as I recall I had my red dot mounted all the way back and had the ejection issues you describe with a similar rail, although your buddy's photo sure looks like they are wedging on the red dot mount and not the rail, so if all the failures are like that I'd suspect this will be the solution.

 

[Jackal]

I can have the red dot either close or far away and shoot both eyes open just fine, but some people cant so it depends on the individual.

 

[Apple a Day]

Moving the red dot closer makes the red dot seem larger, obstructing more of the target. If you're okay with that, enjoy