PCRCCW
Member
Well...Ive had a couple of 1911's in my shop lately making holsters for them. They are just local guys and I arranged to give them their leather at a local indoor range. The reality of the situation is I wanted to shoot their guns!
We all met up and I brought these hooligans their leather and the following 1911s back to their respective owners! Springfield stainless mil spec, an STI Spartan and a railed Taurus PT1911.
Heres a mini range report....just for the hell of it. It may give you an idea of which one of these guns I would buy for the same money....they range from around 520$ for the Taurus, 550$ for the springer and 600$ for the STI.
**Important note I show no bias in this...just my observations! Ive owned, shot and carried many 1911's and many other brands including Taurus! All are guns that Ive trusted my life with! I admittedly favor 1911's and CZ's over most others but at the same time, respect and recommend alot of other brands to my customers when and if they ask for my opinion!**
Initial Impressions: Fit and finish...more emphasis on fit than finish!
STI Spartan. HOLY CRAP!!!Slide to frame fit is SOLID! I mean Les Baer solid...no movement what so ever, side to side and up and down. Same with the barrel hood and bushing! The trigger is almost perfect for an "out of the box" gun. Very little take up and no over travel, breaking at 4#'s. The controls are STI and are very good quality. They snapped into place and stayed there, very smooth and light! This gun has no Firing pin block of any kind...just as JMB designed it to be! Its got the fiber optic front sight and the adj. target LPA rear sight. The gun feels very light and weighs about 5 oz's less than the other 2...strange!?. They are all either 4140 steel or stainless. The finish is a medium grey parkerizing..not the prettiest finish here!
Overall....for mostly the fit and questionable finish on this little base line STI is wonderful!
Springer stainless mil spec 1911. Great slide to frame fit...just a little bit of side to side and no vertical movement whatsoever! A little movement in the barrel hood and none at the bushing. The controls are very light and smooth and stay where they are put. The trigger had a little take up and broke like glass at around 5#'s with no overtravel. Again, no firing pin block is installed on this version of the 1911. Std. mil spec sights were the biggest weak point of the gun. Overall...nice fit and finish. I love the stainless frame and slide. Great starting point for a project gun IMO!
The Stainless finish is perfect but fit was a little less than the STI..a close 2nd place.
Taurus PT1911 Rail. Slide to frame fit was the loosest of them all, but wasn't a rattle trap like a WW2 Colt (not yet anyway!) Barrel fit was just like the Springer, just a tad loose at the barrel hood and tight at the bushing. Trigger was like the Springer also, but the pull weight seemed to vary from about 4-7 #'s which was strange to all who shot the gun! The controls are very well fit, light to move and stayed where put...very STI like! Sights are the Heine straight eights and are very nice to get on target fast. The rail is nice for those who like to dangle stuff off of their guns....lasers etc. With the slide/frame fit and the trigger that didn't know how much it wanted to weigh its in last place for fit/function and 2nd place for finish with a nice black enamel like finish....
Easy decision...'last place among these guns
Shooting Impressions at the range: Ease of shooting, reliability and accuracy!
Taurus PT...Interesting side note. I didn't realize it until we are at the range, this gun is a Colt Series 80 knock off. The schematic from Taurus is the same one Colt sent with their guns. Looks like it would take the same parts for the Firing Pin Block setup.
The Heine sights made easy work for sight acquisition, very nice and quick on target. The OEM mags IMO, left alot to be desired. We had no Failures of any kind but the mags just don't feel as quality as the others did. Off hand shooting at 7-10 yards the gun shot to the point of aim and did very well when the trigger stayed light to pull. But the triggers pull weight seemed to vary alot and would pull shots off of the paper at times. It felt like the trigger was 8-10 #'s at times. Very strange. From a rest, it grouped like the other 2 did...one hole out to about 15 yards with an occasional flyer which were mostly called.
Another interesting note..the slide to frame fit on the Taurus felt SUBSTANTIALLY looser after just 200-250 rnds through it. Calling Taurus they said that was strange and to send the gun in. I dont know what my client will do...its his gun!
Springer St. 1911 mil spec. Shooting the gun mostly from 7-10 yds left one thing....one ragged hole from both offhand shooting and from a rest. The trigger was wonderful and consistent. The down side at this indoor range was the lighting was on and off...spotty at best, leaving the OEM mil spec sights alot to be desired. At 10 yds the light hit the target just right and you could group it as well as any gun in the range. At 15 yds the target would get just dim enough that you couldnt do as well. The gun had no failures of any kind and the OEM mags are very very good quality. Overall...nice shooting gun.
Frame to slide fit was the same as when we started..as it should be. The sights would be the first thing Id change on this gun.
STI Spartan. Folks shooting this gun at the range reminded me of my Trojan I had years ago, my dads LB Concept and other hi end 1911's Ive shot over the years. From 7-10 yds it shot at least as well as the Springer and probably better. The orange glow from the front sight let you shoot tight groups all day long and the trigger was mostly responsible for the tight holes we were making. The gun comes with 1 mag from the factory and Id put the mag between the Taurus and Springer for quality. The STI had no failures of any kind and shot exactly where it was pointed by all who shot it. We even had people coming over to see what we were shooting because it was grouping so well!
The last group of the day was a friend of mine who shot the Spartan...9 rnds through one little tiny hole off hand at about 20 yds. After that I decided it was time to leave on that note!
Final summary of all three. Fit/Finish/Range Work and the final thoughts.
Taurus PT1911 Railed version. Given all of the great things Ive heard about these guns from the Rags and reviews by owners on the net. I had very high hopes for this gun...very high hopes. The sparatic pull weight of the trigger and how it effected the group size at the range. Combined with he loose fit of the frame and slide when we were done...Im more disappointed to say the least.
Note: The Taurus is marketed as a hand fitted gun by skilled smiths etc! If this gun is an example of what you get from "hand fitted frame/slide/barrel/parts"? Id hate to see an example put togethor by someone who wasnt so skilled! At first glance and handling the gun, for the money its very impressive..lots of bells and whistles! But they seem to cut corners a little in the application of the extras they offer. Example: The checkering on the front strap and under the trigger guard, is pressed into the steel instead of being machined. I noticed the checkering was actually a little off center on the front strap.
All in all Id give this little 1911 about a 5 out of 10 and last place in our mini shoot out. I wanted it to be a better gun and from what I hear, most other examples are!
Springer Mil Spec SS. Ive shot alot of Springfields over the years and this is one of the nicer and tighter guns Ive shot. The finish on the gun is perfect!
The controls are consistent and crisp to use. Again...a great gun for those who love to tinker and add stuff when they can, to make it "Their own!" The sights are its biggest down fall...but thats what you get when you get a mil spec gun.
All in all, Id give it a very solid 7-8 out of 10 and second in our shoot out.
STI Spartan. Ive got to give it to these guys........the frame is Armscor, as is the barrel and slide. The controls and trigger parts are all STI and who ever puts these things together KNOWS 1911's.
This guns fit, level of accuracy and crispness of its controls and trigger put it well above any other in the price range. And Id easily put it well ahead of every Kimber Ive had except one TLE I had years ago and put it right up there with my STI Trojan which cost over 400$ more than the Spartan. The fit/function of this example compares well with my old mans LB Concept 7 which cost over twice what this gun does.
Overall Id give it a solid 9 out of 10 and the easiest decision Ive had to make in a long time...the winner of our shoot out.
**If I could combine the STI's fit and function, with the Springers Stainless finish...you would have "The perfect 1911!" IMO anyway.
If you have around 600$ to spend on a good solid 1911...look no further! Run dont walk to your nearest STI dealer and get you one before they are all gone! The STI Spartan is THAT GOOD! Especially for the money!!!!
While I claim to be NO 1911 Expert..not even close. I have owned, carried and shot a dozen or so over the years. Ive also shot and handled dozens of others from my Gpa's 1942 Colt that rattled when shook to a 5000$ SVI Race gun. I have a good idea of how I like them to fit, handle and function.
Hope you found this informative and interesting.....just one mans opinion.
Shoot well and god bless.
We all met up and I brought these hooligans their leather and the following 1911s back to their respective owners! Springfield stainless mil spec, an STI Spartan and a railed Taurus PT1911.
Heres a mini range report....just for the hell of it. It may give you an idea of which one of these guns I would buy for the same money....they range from around 520$ for the Taurus, 550$ for the springer and 600$ for the STI.
**Important note I show no bias in this...just my observations! Ive owned, shot and carried many 1911's and many other brands including Taurus! All are guns that Ive trusted my life with! I admittedly favor 1911's and CZ's over most others but at the same time, respect and recommend alot of other brands to my customers when and if they ask for my opinion!**
Initial Impressions: Fit and finish...more emphasis on fit than finish!
STI Spartan. HOLY CRAP!!!Slide to frame fit is SOLID! I mean Les Baer solid...no movement what so ever, side to side and up and down. Same with the barrel hood and bushing! The trigger is almost perfect for an "out of the box" gun. Very little take up and no over travel, breaking at 4#'s. The controls are STI and are very good quality. They snapped into place and stayed there, very smooth and light! This gun has no Firing pin block of any kind...just as JMB designed it to be! Its got the fiber optic front sight and the adj. target LPA rear sight. The gun feels very light and weighs about 5 oz's less than the other 2...strange!?. They are all either 4140 steel or stainless. The finish is a medium grey parkerizing..not the prettiest finish here!
Overall....for mostly the fit and questionable finish on this little base line STI is wonderful!
Springer stainless mil spec 1911. Great slide to frame fit...just a little bit of side to side and no vertical movement whatsoever! A little movement in the barrel hood and none at the bushing. The controls are very light and smooth and stay where they are put. The trigger had a little take up and broke like glass at around 5#'s with no overtravel. Again, no firing pin block is installed on this version of the 1911. Std. mil spec sights were the biggest weak point of the gun. Overall...nice fit and finish. I love the stainless frame and slide. Great starting point for a project gun IMO!
The Stainless finish is perfect but fit was a little less than the STI..a close 2nd place.
Taurus PT1911 Rail. Slide to frame fit was the loosest of them all, but wasn't a rattle trap like a WW2 Colt (not yet anyway!) Barrel fit was just like the Springer, just a tad loose at the barrel hood and tight at the bushing. Trigger was like the Springer also, but the pull weight seemed to vary from about 4-7 #'s which was strange to all who shot the gun! The controls are very well fit, light to move and stayed where put...very STI like! Sights are the Heine straight eights and are very nice to get on target fast. The rail is nice for those who like to dangle stuff off of their guns....lasers etc. With the slide/frame fit and the trigger that didn't know how much it wanted to weigh its in last place for fit/function and 2nd place for finish with a nice black enamel like finish....
Easy decision...'last place among these guns
Shooting Impressions at the range: Ease of shooting, reliability and accuracy!
Taurus PT...Interesting side note. I didn't realize it until we are at the range, this gun is a Colt Series 80 knock off. The schematic from Taurus is the same one Colt sent with their guns. Looks like it would take the same parts for the Firing Pin Block setup.
The Heine sights made easy work for sight acquisition, very nice and quick on target. The OEM mags IMO, left alot to be desired. We had no Failures of any kind but the mags just don't feel as quality as the others did. Off hand shooting at 7-10 yards the gun shot to the point of aim and did very well when the trigger stayed light to pull. But the triggers pull weight seemed to vary alot and would pull shots off of the paper at times. It felt like the trigger was 8-10 #'s at times. Very strange. From a rest, it grouped like the other 2 did...one hole out to about 15 yards with an occasional flyer which were mostly called.
Another interesting note..the slide to frame fit on the Taurus felt SUBSTANTIALLY looser after just 200-250 rnds through it. Calling Taurus they said that was strange and to send the gun in. I dont know what my client will do...its his gun!
Springer St. 1911 mil spec. Shooting the gun mostly from 7-10 yds left one thing....one ragged hole from both offhand shooting and from a rest. The trigger was wonderful and consistent. The down side at this indoor range was the lighting was on and off...spotty at best, leaving the OEM mil spec sights alot to be desired. At 10 yds the light hit the target just right and you could group it as well as any gun in the range. At 15 yds the target would get just dim enough that you couldnt do as well. The gun had no failures of any kind and the OEM mags are very very good quality. Overall...nice shooting gun.
Frame to slide fit was the same as when we started..as it should be. The sights would be the first thing Id change on this gun.
STI Spartan. Folks shooting this gun at the range reminded me of my Trojan I had years ago, my dads LB Concept and other hi end 1911's Ive shot over the years. From 7-10 yds it shot at least as well as the Springer and probably better. The orange glow from the front sight let you shoot tight groups all day long and the trigger was mostly responsible for the tight holes we were making. The gun comes with 1 mag from the factory and Id put the mag between the Taurus and Springer for quality. The STI had no failures of any kind and shot exactly where it was pointed by all who shot it. We even had people coming over to see what we were shooting because it was grouping so well!
The last group of the day was a friend of mine who shot the Spartan...9 rnds through one little tiny hole off hand at about 20 yds. After that I decided it was time to leave on that note!
Final summary of all three. Fit/Finish/Range Work and the final thoughts.
Taurus PT1911 Railed version. Given all of the great things Ive heard about these guns from the Rags and reviews by owners on the net. I had very high hopes for this gun...very high hopes. The sparatic pull weight of the trigger and how it effected the group size at the range. Combined with he loose fit of the frame and slide when we were done...Im more disappointed to say the least.
Note: The Taurus is marketed as a hand fitted gun by skilled smiths etc! If this gun is an example of what you get from "hand fitted frame/slide/barrel/parts"? Id hate to see an example put togethor by someone who wasnt so skilled! At first glance and handling the gun, for the money its very impressive..lots of bells and whistles! But they seem to cut corners a little in the application of the extras they offer. Example: The checkering on the front strap and under the trigger guard, is pressed into the steel instead of being machined. I noticed the checkering was actually a little off center on the front strap.
All in all Id give this little 1911 about a 5 out of 10 and last place in our mini shoot out. I wanted it to be a better gun and from what I hear, most other examples are!
Springer Mil Spec SS. Ive shot alot of Springfields over the years and this is one of the nicer and tighter guns Ive shot. The finish on the gun is perfect!
The controls are consistent and crisp to use. Again...a great gun for those who love to tinker and add stuff when they can, to make it "Their own!" The sights are its biggest down fall...but thats what you get when you get a mil spec gun.
All in all, Id give it a very solid 7-8 out of 10 and second in our shoot out.
STI Spartan. Ive got to give it to these guys........the frame is Armscor, as is the barrel and slide. The controls and trigger parts are all STI and who ever puts these things together KNOWS 1911's.
This guns fit, level of accuracy and crispness of its controls and trigger put it well above any other in the price range. And Id easily put it well ahead of every Kimber Ive had except one TLE I had years ago and put it right up there with my STI Trojan which cost over 400$ more than the Spartan. The fit/function of this example compares well with my old mans LB Concept 7 which cost over twice what this gun does.
Overall Id give it a solid 9 out of 10 and the easiest decision Ive had to make in a long time...the winner of our shoot out.
**If I could combine the STI's fit and function, with the Springers Stainless finish...you would have "The perfect 1911!" IMO anyway.
If you have around 600$ to spend on a good solid 1911...look no further! Run dont walk to your nearest STI dealer and get you one before they are all gone! The STI Spartan is THAT GOOD! Especially for the money!!!!
While I claim to be NO 1911 Expert..not even close. I have owned, carried and shot a dozen or so over the years. Ive also shot and handled dozens of others from my Gpa's 1942 Colt that rattled when shook to a 5000$ SVI Race gun. I have a good idea of how I like them to fit, handle and function.
Hope you found this informative and interesting.....just one mans opinion.
Shoot well and god bless.
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