Mini vs regular short action rifle actions

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RussellC

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Thinking about Howa barreled action for my next gun, short action.

Wondering about what and whys are in selecting one over the other? In another thread I read where someone suggested the mini for its smoothness at its price point and really got to wondering. .223 Remington and 6.5 Creedmoor, maybe 308 are about the only calibers I am currently interested in if that makes any difference.

Thanks for any and all explainations,

Russellc
 
The mini-Mauser action will work for a 223 but not for the Creedmoor or 308. I have one in 6.5 Grendel. It's size makes for a very compact rifle but it's limited to smaller cartridges.
 
'Mini' actions are for .223 length cartridges. Short actions are about .308 family cartridges, mostly. Has to do with the case head diameter and mag length too.
The Creedmoor and .308 are short action cartridges. Max OAL is 2.825". .308's is 2.800". .223 is 2.130".
 
Think about the Mini's as a bolt action length equivalent of an AR-15. They're really designed only for use with AR-15 length cartridges. I'm not sure what the max COAL actually is, but largely, you're talking about 2.30" cartridges, instead of true short action cartridges of 2.80" (which can usually be pushed out to about 2.9-2.93ish in a short action).
 
I guess I will stick to the "regular" short action. Thanks for the info guys! I've had enough trouble loading the longer (2.250+) in .223 with my Savage...well at least for the SMK 52 and 53 grainers. They will work if I make them under 2.240. Due to different ogive, the 69 grain SMK works fine at 2.260.

Russellc
 
I have a .223 Howa Mini. I'm trying to figure out what it's good for. Sub MOA for 5 shots, after that she starts to drift due to the #2 light contour barrel. I'm thinking maybe a good varmint rifle. I'm shooting Hornady 55 gr FMJBT without any issues. It's a 1/9 twist so I'm not going to experiment with heavier bullets.

Grendel would be a better cartridge but I didn't want another reloading adventure. I also have a Howa 1500 short action. Highly recommended.
 
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Does anybody make a truly mini action, as in smaller diameter as well as shorter than a full size action? I've always thought a receiver the size of say a Remington 700 or any of the other mainstream receiver sizes is just way overkill for a 223. I wish someone made like a 75% scale action.
 
CoalTrain49 said:
I have a .223 Howa Mini. I'm trying to figure out what it's good for. Sub MOA for 5 shots, after that she starts to drift due to the #2 light contour barrel. I'm thinking maybe a good varmint rifle. I'm shooting Hornady 55 gr FMJBT without any issues. It's a 1/9 twist so I'm not going to experiment with heavier bullets.

Grendel would be a better cartridge but I didn't want another reloading adventure. I also have a Howa 1500 short action. Highly recommended.
Click to expand...
Why not heavier? 1/9 should be good to 77 grains?

Russellc
 
someguy2800 said:
Does anybody make a truly mini action, as in smaller diameter as well as shorter than a full size action? I've always thought a receiver the size of say a Remington 700 or any of the other mainstream receiver sizes is just way overkill for a 223. I wish someone made like a 75% scale action.
Click to expand...
What about the CZ 527? It has a micro-Mauser action. I have a CZ 527 chambered for .223 and I also have a Yugoslavian M48 Mauser (which is already a slightly shorter Mauser action). Comparing the two side by side it's clear to see that the bolt of the CZ 527 is smaller in diameter and length compared with my M48. This isn't a surprise since the case-head of the .223 of .378", is much smaller than the 8mm Mauser, which is .473" - according to SAAMI drawings (source:http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/206.pdf). Therefore, there's no need for having such a chunky bolt for the .223 case.

I also have a Remingotn 700 SA for the 6.5x47 Lapua (was originally used for a .308). The CZ definitely feels smaller than the Remington, and the bolt operation is shorter too. The CZ action is beneficial for standard length .223 rounds (max COAL of 2.260") however, I think the Remington SA is beneficial if you want to use long throated .223 rounds, like if you're using bullet weights >77gr (i.e. COAL's greater than 2.260"). The 6.5x47 Lapua that I load has a COAL of 2.660" so definitely wouldn't fit in a micro-action.

I can get a picture of the three bolts side by side tonight.
 
CoalTrain49 said:
Shoots fine with 55 gr. and they're about .08 apiece. I don't hunt with it so no reason for me to go to a heavier bullet. I believe 55-62 gr is optimal for 1/9 twist, but I could be wrong. :)
Click to expand...
Oh I thought it was a weight of bullet thing. I see and understand, I have quite a few 55 grain FMJ bullets on hand (Hornady).

Russellc
 
WelshShooter said:
What about the CZ 527? It has a micro-Mauser action. I have a CZ 527 chambered for .223 and I also have a Yugoslavian M48 Mauser (which is already a slightly shorter Mauser action). Comparing the two side by side it's clear to see that the bolt of the CZ 527 is smaller in diameter and length compared with my M48. This isn't a surprise since the case-head of the .223 of .378", is much smaller than the 8mm Mauser, which is .473" - according to SAAMI drawings (source:http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/206.pdf). Therefore, there's no need for having such a chunky bolt for the .223 case.

I also have a Remingotn 700 SA for the 6.5x47 Lapua (was originally used for a .308). The CZ definitely feels smaller than the Remington, and the bolt operation is shorter too. The CZ action is beneficial for standard length .223 rounds (max COAL of 2.260") however, I think the Remington SA is beneficial if you want to use long throated .223 rounds, like if you're using bullet weights >77gr (i.e. COAL's greater than 2.260"). The 6.5x47 Lapua that I load has a COAL of 2.660" so definitely wouldn't fit in a micro-action.

I can get a picture of the three bolts side by side tonight.
Click to expand...

If you could take a picture of the cz527 action next to your 700 that would be great. I've never seen a 527 in person so I would like to get a sense of how big they are. Also if you have a caliper handy I would be interested in the width of the receiver.
 
Nature Boy said:
So, have you ordered it yet?
Click to expand...


No, my Savage in .308 is still on back order, and it will be next after that. Really like the .308 you were showing in another thread, in Handloading I believe? Very nice groups!

Russellc
 
RussellC said:
No, my Savage in .308 is still on back order, and it will be next after that. Really like the .308 you were showing in another thread, in Handloading I believe? Very nice groups!

Russellc
Click to expand...
Whoops, thought this was at me....sorry!

Russellc
 
someguy2800 said:
If you could take a picture of the cz527 action next to your 700 that would be great. I've never seen a 527 in person so I would like to get a sense of how big they are. Also if you have a caliper handy I would be interested in the width of the receiver.
Click to expand...

I've gone ahead and taken some pictures and measurements using a calipre of the CZ 527, Remington 700 and Yugoslavian M48 Mauser. I measured:
  • The diameter of the bolt body near the bolt handle
  • The diameter of the bolt body near the locking lugs at the bolt face.
  • Maximum diameter of the lugs at the bolt face.
  • Overall length from rear of bolt to the bolt face.
I included a tape measure for scale in the bolt pictures. You can clearly see the difference in size between the three bolts! It's further confirmation that the Remington 700 bolt is overkill for the .223 calibre (assuming you don't exceed a COAL of 2.260", i.e. standard ammunition). The CZ is a true micro-Mauser action, it utilises a controlled feed and extraction system like the Mauser. One difference is that the CZ uses two locking lugs up front, whereas the Yugo M48 has two locking lugs up front and one locking lug in the rear, just between the bottom of the extractor sleeve and the bolt handle (not pictured).

Unfortunately, my Remington 700 sits inside an MDT Tac 21 chassis which is fully covered so I am not able to make any measurements of the receiver. If you'd like, I can do the measurements on the CZ 527 and the Yugo M48, but my calipers only extend to a maximum length of 6" so would need to rely on the tape measure.

From Left to Right:
  • CZ 527
  • Remington 700
  • Yugoslavian M48 Mauser
The individual images below were cropped and are set to the same scale, so you can compare the images side by side if you want to download them.



Summary of Data.png


Bolt1.png

CZ527 Bolt.png



Bolt for Remington700.png



Yugo M48 Bolt.png
 
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Oh dear, obviously that lug-to-lug measurement on the CZ 527 is not correct! I will need to edit that image and correct when I get back to my home computer.

EDIT: Previous post updated; the CZ 527 bolt dimension has now been corrected. In addition, I have added a summary table of the measurements.
 
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