Minn. Million Moms Aim to Repeal Concealed-Carry Bill

[WAGCEVP]

Minn. Million Moms Aim to Repeal Concealed-Carry Bill

The Twin Cities Million Moms have begun an effort to repeal Minnesota's
recently passed concealed-carry gun bill, the Minnesota Spokesman-Recorder
reported Sept. 17.

"We just think that this law is devastating," said Kate Havelin, community
outreach chair for the Twin Cities Million Moms. "The bill is called
'conceal and carry,' but you don't have to conceal the gun. The state
estimates that in three years there will be 900,000 total people who have
guns in Minnesota because of the bill. And right now there are about
11,000."

The group is particularly angry about the bill's passage because there was
little public support for it. "There was massive public outcry against
this bill -- no one was behind it," said Jose Gonzalez, a program manager
at the Bush Foundation and a member of Twin Cities Million Moms. "The
Minnesota state legislators couldn't pass it through a legislative vote,
so it went through other methods or, quite clearly, the legislators voted
against their constituency."

Million Moms members plan to lobby the legislature to repeal the bill.
They will be supported by Citizens for a Safer Minnesota. The latter
group, which is distributing a petition to repeal the bill, expects to
present lawmakers with a list of 5,000 to 6,000 names before the start of
the next session.

Activist Matt Little, a Million Mom participant, blames the power of the
National Rifle Association (NRA) for passage of the gun bill.

"Without all their high-powered lobbyists that they bring in every year,
we'd have a good chance to do something," said Little. "We had legislation
passed to require safety locks on guns. And the NRA brought heavy hitters
to fight that, and they spent several hundreds of thousands of dollars to
fight that bill -- to fight that innocuous bill. They are tremendously
resourceful and got plenty of money. That's our major enemy -- we can't
match them in any way. Without the NRA, there would be no
conceal-and-carry bill."

 

[greyhound]

The group is particularly angry about the bill's passage because there was
little public support for it. "There was massive public outcry against
this bill -- no one was behind it," said Jose Gonzalez, a program manager
at the Bush Foundation and a member of Twin Cities Million Moms. "The
Minnesota state legislators couldn't pass it through a legislative vote,
so it went through other methods or, quite clearly, the legislators voted
against their constituency."



Huh? I thought the majority was "fer" it, only the big city liberals "agin" it. Anyone from MN have the scoop? Good grief they just won't let it go, will they?

 

[El Tejon]

Too many soccer balls to the head or maybe the seatbelt on her minivan is too tight.

Who does she think the NRA is? Some group of supereeevilvillians that hang out in the LegionHall of Doom in D.C. and play cards? Yep, that bill wasn't passed because of the hard work of civil rights activists (some members of THR). Nooooo, it was the eeeevil NRA using their Jedi mind control and assault lobbyists.

Can the high-power lobbyists from the NRA come down here and rid us of the silly "no guns in skul" statute or the fact that I have to pay $25 every four years to exercise a right for my LTCH?

 

[Silver Bullet]

Without the NRA, there would be no conceal-and-carry bill.

Everybody here get that ? NRA-naysayers ?

 

[Bigjake]

and in other news another yuppie soccer mom movement tanks...

 

[Jake]

"The state estimates that in three years there will be 900,000 total people who have guns in Minnesota because of the bill. And right now there are about 11,000. "

I think this statement is one of the the most ignorant and pathetic things I have ever heard. Don't ya just love how it makes it sound like it is the new law that will make these horrible guns suddenly appear out of thin air.

" there will be 900,000 total people who have guns in Minnesota because of the bill. "



Not that they will be legally able to carry and defend themselves if needed but simply that the will have them. Idiots.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

People like this tend to make me ponder the concept of retroactive abortion.

 

[Moparmike]

Who does she think the NRA is? Some group of supereeevilvillians that hang out in the LegionHall of Doom in D.C. and play cards?

Odd, I always thought they were affiliated with KAOS.

Anyway, I hope these idiots are exposed for the blissninny sheeple they truely are.

 

[GSB]

Who does she think the NRA is? Some group of supereeevilvillians that hang out in the LegionHall of Doom in D.C. and play cards?

Lousy NRA. I'm a life member and I've never received my promised Army of Robot Zombies. Now they tell me I have to be an Endowment Member to get an Army of Robot Zombies, and that life member only gets a Decoder Ring and a black cape.

Seriously though, I grow weary of the Million Sheeplike Mommies and they should be very glad that I am NOT a supervillain, for they would be displeased at my acts of supervillainy (Adding subliminal pro-gun messages to Oprah and Dr. Phil episodes? Lacing soccer ball mini-van decals with Mind Control Glue?)

 

[goalie]

As a Minnesotan I just have to say that this state's left-wingers had gotten their way in this state without any opposition for so long that they are taking this right to carry loss (along with a major budget battle loss where they wanted to raise taxes......again) very, very hard. Understand clearly that when these laws pass there is a major problem for those public officials who stated loudly, nay, shrilly, over and over and over that allowing law abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons would lead to children being shot and pretty much turn Minneapolis (or, as we were called in the national news media BEFORE the right to carry law, MURDERAPOLIS) into some version of Beruit. When the predicted carnage does not happen, many of the people in other states have seen the light and realized that guns are not the problem, especially when carried by law-abiding citizens. The left here is very, very fearful that the uninformed people in the middle who prior to this law based their emotional opinions on crap and lies spewed by Michael Moore and HCI will actually see with their own eyes how little impact my carrying a gun in public alters their lifestyle or percieved safety. These people know that banning handguns in a state where the citizens have been carrying them in public with neutral or good results just isn't going to fly with the general populace, and more importantly, they know that there is not one state that "allows" concealed carry that has had anything but good results. In conclusion, my point is basically that to the anti's, their reaction to the state they live in passing CCW legislation is analogous to how most of us high roaders would feel if the 2nd Amendment was repealed. They know that they fought and lost, and in Minnesota, they are not going to go down easily or quietly. These people truely want to ban handguns, heck, I would say most even want to ban all guns, and now they are living where every law-abiding citizen is allowed to carry a **gasp** loaded handgun in public, and even if they won't admit it, they KNOW that all hell is not going to break loose.

 

[Cosmoline]

Only 11,000 people have firearms in Minnesota? That's a new one!

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Just the facts Ma'am...

As my good friend is fond of saying, BULL HONKEY...

Fact number 1: The state estimates that there will be 90,000 permits within a few years. Not 900,000. I would be happy if it was 900,000, but only 90,000 are excepted. It kind of convenient that that extra zero got stuck in there....

Fact number 2: The only reason that there are no more than 11 or 12 thousand permits right now is because the liberal chiefs in the Twin Cities have abused the may-issue system and kept the number of permits artificially low by refusing to issue to any except a select few. THAT is why there will such a huge increase, not any purported "loosening" of carry laws (the new law is actually stricter than the old may-issue law).
I was going to apply in Minneapolis, but the lady at the desk told me that the chief wouldn't issue unless you were LEO/security or had documented threats against you. Cuz all good criminals announce their intentions before hand...

Fact 3:

The group is particularly angry about the bill's passage because there was little public support for it. "There was massive public outcry against this bill -- no one was behind it," said Jose Gonzalez, a program manager at the Bush Foundation and a member of Twin Cities Million Moms. "The Minnesota state legislators couldn't pass it through a legislative vote, so it went through other methods or, quite clearly, the legislators voted against their constituency."

This statement just makes me ... For those of you who don't live in MN, here is what actually happened. The Minnesota Personal Protection Act (MPPA, the carry bill) passed the House of Representatives, as it has done for the past couple legislative sessions. Gov. Pawlenty promised to sign it and had been a major supporter during his time in the House, so he was in the bag. The sticking point was the liberal-controlled Senate. The Senate Democrats knew that there was support for the MPPA, so they refused to bring it to the floor for a straight up or down vote. So the House used a parlimentary manuever that allowed them to attach the MPPA to the House version of a bill the Senate had already passed. This forced the Senate to reconsider this bill (a minor bill regarding the Department of Natural Resources) with the attachment of the MPPA. Essentially forcing the MPPA to a floor vote. Which it passed...37-30, I believe. The Republicans did use "other methods", but they were perfectly legal and all they did was force the Democrats to allow a vote on legislation that was overwhelmingly supported by the House, the Governor, and the people (why else would there be so many pro-gunners in the state government?).

This article is a best misinformed and at worst flat out lying. But the best antidote to both is the accurate truth.

 

[capt_happypants]

GSB, I'm a regular member and I've gotten my Jennifer Garner Erotic Clone (Mark II, Mod 3 - the early ones had some horrific teething issues), the Alchemist's Stone, my M-41A Pulse Rifle (10,000 rounds of 10mm explosive-tipped caseless ammo included), and my official Cute Pupppy-Kicking Jackboots.

Take it up with the Membership Department. You are not doing enough for the Evil Gun Lobby(tm).

 

[Standing Wolf]

Say what you will about the leftist extremists in Minnesota, but you've got to admit they're doing the loudest snivelling and whining in the nation.

 

[SteelyDan]

The liberal mindset is deeply entrenched here. Think Hubert Humphrey, Eugene McCarthy, Walter Mondale. The leftists were seriously pissed when the Conceal and Carry bill passed, and I'd bet a nickle it will be modified next year. And yeah, the estimate was 90,000 permit holders, not 900,000 (based on results in Michigan, I think), but after four months even the 90,000 is starting to look way too high. The state as a whole may even go republican in 2004 (for the first time in years, but who knows), but the lib activists cannot be ignored and they really are working on the Conceal and Carry law. If it is not modified, that will be a really big victory.

 

[BogBabe]

"The state estimates that in three years there will be 900,000 total people who have guns in Minnesota because of the bill. And right now there are about 11,000."

"There was massive public outcry against this bill -- no one was behind it."

Regardless of whether it's 900,000 or 90,000 -- if you believe what these morons say, there are 90,000 (or 900,000) people who were against the bill, but who will be acquiring weapons as a result of its passage.

Things that make you go "Hmmmm...."

 

[MuzzleBlast]

Activist Matt Little, a Million Mom participant, blames the power of the National Rifle Association (NRA) for passage of the gun bill.

HOOWAH!

 

[jdege]

Actually, the NRA wasn't the major force behind this bill.

Like most of the shall-issue bill, most of the effort was by a local, grass-roots organization, and volunteer activists.

In this case, Minnesota Concealed Carry Reform, Now!

The NRA sent out some mailings to its members for us, a couple of times, and
they'd helped us get some national figures to testify before the legislature, over the years (John Lott, Suzanna Gratia-Hupp).

And they sent a lobbyist out, for a couple of weeks during the fight for Senate passage, and he (Todd Adkins) did a bang-up job in pushing the bill over the edge.

But it wasn't the NRA that got the bill to the edge.

It's just that it's easier for the dozen or so active opponents of this bill to blame an outside organization and outside money than for them to accept the simple fact that there were far more Minnesotans in favor of this bill than opposed.

(Of course, it was the opponents that consisted of a couple of dozen professional activists funded by six-figure grants by out-state organizations, and it was the pro-side that had the thousands of active supporters, working entirely volunteer, but they don't like to think about that.)

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Additionally

Just to correct a few misinformed comments (no offense meant) the MPPA actually is not a "conceal and carry" bill, despite repeated reference to it by the media as such. It is in fact a "carry" bill. Minnesota is silent on the subject of whether a handgun must be carried concealed or not. Legally, that means open and concealed carry are both legal with a permit. This is not to open up concealed vs. open, just to point out that open carry is perfectly legal, provided you have a permit.

 

[dustind]

The majority can get 5,000 people to sign a petition, while a few extremists can get 90,000 people to pay hundreds of dollars for a permit, training, and firearm, then endure several hours of classes and shooting tests. Something there does not make sense.

What!?!... they forced politicians to vote on a bill, Those

 

[Big_R]

Something very important to remember. There was a "rally" at the capital put on by the MMM and about 7 people showed up. It still made the news. The same legislative bodies who passed this law will still be in office when the session resumes. No change will happen.

Ryan

 

[greyhound]

For those that haven't seen this..apologizes to those that have, its important...

'Soft, white guys'

By law, officials can't reveal the identities of those applying for or receiving handgun permits, but Dakota County Sheriff Don Gudmunson has sized them up.

"They're soft white guys," he said. "They look in the mirror and see they're out of shape and think they need a gun to protect themselves. But they're living in an area where they have nothing to fear."

In Scott County, just west of Dakota, Sheriff Dave Menden has a different appraisal. "I've talked to quite a few of them," he said. "They're damn good citizens. We have nothing to worry about from them."

Washington County Sheriff Jim Frank noted that of 283 applicants to his office, only 12 have been women. He has issued 223 permits, for the highest acceptance rate so far in the Twin Cities, but he's doing it grudgingly.

Under his stamped signature on the permits are the words "sub recuso," Latin for "under protest," he said. He disagrees with the new law, saying it has forced him to issue permits to 11 people with arrest or misdemeanor records not specified in the statute as grounds for denial.

"I think the law worked fine before," when authorities had broad discretion to deny permits, Frank said. "I think there's going to be more harm than good to come from this."

Nearly 7,000 Minnesotans have voiced agreement with that sentiment by signing petitions for repeal of the new law, said Rep. Nora Slawik, DFL-Maplewood. She, along with other legislators and local officials, will hold a repeal rally at 3:15 p.m. today in Central Park in Eagan, one of the places where permitted handguns can't be banned.

"I get petitions every day in the mail," Slawik said. "They are from all over the place, all walks of people, companies and citizens, top of the state to the bottom of the state. People are nervous."

The law gives sheriffs 30 days to act on permit applications, and many of them have used nearly all of it. Almost no permits were mailed out in the Twin Cities until last week.

"We wanted to give people and businesses the whole 30 days to understand the new law and establish policy for their property," said Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher. "But we should have a 21-day turnaround going forward."

Fletcher has stuck to a policy of scheduling appointments to file handgun permit applications, although he said that with filings now down to 20 a day, "if people walked in, they'd be seen."

Anoka County, however, stopped requiring appointments when scheduling started backing up into July. "That wasn't reasonable," said sheriff's Lt. Ron Bouley. "It didn't look right."

The county hired some retired officers to speed up processing, and the backlog was quickly resolved, Bouley said. Now about 25 permit-seekers are showing up each day. "It's slowly dwindled from about 80 a day at first," he said.

Hennepin County had 222 applicants on May 28, the day the law took effect, 42 of them standing in line when the Government Center opened at 8:30 a.m. In the first two weeks, 883 applied, and it took eight staff members working full time to handle the paperwork, said Rosenn Campagnoli, spokeswoman for Sheriff Pat McGowan.

"It's an enormous change for us," she added. Already McGowan has issued 580 permits, compared with six in all of 2002. More permits than that were issued in the county last year, but under the old law, most applications in Hennepin County and other urban areas were handled by city police chiefs. Now only sheriffs have permit authority.

Inconsistencies in past

In the past, the number of handgun permits issued in different parts of the state generally reflected the opinions of local police chiefs and sheriffs on the issue of armed self-defense for citizens.

In the Twin Cities area, "it was pretty widely known that unless you needed a permit for work you weren't going to get one," said Washington County chief deputy Steve Pott.

But Itasca Sheriff Medure said he "took at face value" claims of personal safety hazards to warrant carrying handguns. He denied not one of 1,140 applications last year. In the past month, however, only five have applied, he said.

Applicants have been such "honest, law-abiding citizens" that only about a dozen permits were revoked in 28 years in Itasca County because of misconduct, Medure said. He also estimated that 95 percent of the county's permitholders never carried guns.

Gudmundson thinks he knows why.

"They're cold or hot, heavy, hard to conceal and they're downright dangerous," he said. In his 25 years as sheriff of Fillmore and Dakota counties and police chief of Lakeville, he added, he has never carried a gun off-duty.

"I've never been in a situation where I've needed it," he said. "I tell the people applying for permits that they have about as much chance of needing a gun as they do of winning the Gopher Lotto. And if that happens, they have as much chance of using it correctly as of winning the Powerball."

 

[cajunboy2k]

MMM

The tampon fuses are lit. I hope they EXPLODE when the loose.