Minnesota: "Judge finds in favor of church’s opposition to gun law "

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cuchulainn

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http://www.mnsun.com/story.asp?city=Bloomington&story=114668
Judge finds in favor of church’s opposition to gun law
By Laura Waldon
Sun Newspapers
(Created 6/12/03 10:19:50 AM)

A Hennepin County District Court judge ruled in a temporary order last Friday that portions of the recently enacted “conceal carry†handgun law are unconstitutional, and granted an Edina church’s request to defy the statute’s signage and personal notification requirements.

However, District Court Judge Marilyn Brown Rosenbaum denied Edina Community Lutheran Church’s other request to prohibit firearms from the church’s parking facilities, according to the order filed in Hennepin County District Court.

“We’re very pleased with the release she did grant us,†said the Rev. Pamela Fickenscher, associate pastor of Edina Community Lutheran Church (ECLC), 4113 W. 54th St. “Obviously it did not give us all we asked for in the restraining order … but we think it’s a real positive step in the right direction.â€

Last month, ECLC asked the courts to declare parts of the new law unconstitutional, said the church attorney, David Lillehaug, former U.S. attorney for Minnesota. The new law took effect on May 28.

The church claimed that the Minnesota Citizens’ Personal Protection Act of 2003, also referred to as the “conceal carry†law, “violates their rights by infringing upon, controlling and interfering with, their right to worship and their freedom of conscience,†according to documents filed in Hennepin County District Court.

In order for an establishment such as the church to request that firearms not be brought into the establishment, it must prominently post a sign at every entrance containing the language that the establishment “bans guns in these premises,†according to the conceal carry law.

In addition, the requester must personally inform people who are entering the premises of the posted request, the law states.

Church officials felt that these requirements “intruded on our religious expression and on our mission on Sunday morning,†Fickenscher said. “We felt it was important for us to communicate our policy in language that matches our religious beliefs.â€

Last month, ECLC’s members voted unanimously to proceed with the lawsuit, Fickenscher said.

Following Rosenbaum’s decision, the signs that are now posted in ECLC’s front entrance and parking lot entrance read, “Blessed are the peacemakers. Firearms are prohibited in this place of sanctuary,†Lillehaug reported.

Since the lawsuit was filed, many other churches and “denominations representing several hundred congregations†have voted to join the lawsuit, Lillehaug said.

“Last week, all of the Catholic bishops voted to join the lawsuit and the statewide Methodist Conference did so also, and then the Minneapolis Area Synod of the Lutheran Church voted to join,†said Lillehaug. “So this small church in Edina is getting tremendous support.â€

In addition to the churches that oppose the law, Bloomington resident Kim Stanley is part of a group that is planning a rally against the new Minnesota law in Gov. Tim Pawlenty’s hometown of Eagan.

Stanley recently began a petition drive that is aimed at getting the law nullified.

“We’re very encouraged, both by the judge’s ruling and by the support we’ve gotten from other individuals and denominations and churches, and are very pleased with how things are proceeding so far,†Fickenscher said.

Hamline University law professor Joseph Olson, who helped draft the conceal carry legislation, has spoken out against Rosenbaum’s decision.

“She said the church doesn’t have to comply with the posting and request provisions of the law on the basis of their religious beliefs,†Olson said. “What [her decision] says is that a carefully drafted statute containing a number of compromises setting forth a clear legislative policy can be overturned at the drop of a hat. That doesn’t sound like democracy to me.

“The bill was carefully drafted, negotiated with a number of groups who cared enough to show up and participate in the process, and that carefully negotiated process should not be changed,†he said.

When Olson was asked if the conceal carry law violates churches’ rights to practice religion by imposing specific language to be used on signs banning guns, he said that the difference between the legally required language and the wording that ECLC chose to post was “95 percent the same.â€

“If there’s any infringement here, it’s infinitesimal,†he added.

Hilary Lindell Caligiuri, deputy attorney general, and Kristine Eiden, chief deputy attorney general, who argued on behalf of the state in this case, could not be reached for comment.

Although Rosenbaum’s ruling is only a “preliminary decision,†ECLC is grateful that the judge ruled “that the church could notify people of the prohibition on firearms as it saw fit,†Lillehaug said.

Lillehaug will be meeting with the leaders of the congregations and denominations that have joined the lawuit to decide how to proceed with the case, he said.

When asked if he knows how the state plans to proceed with this case, Olson responded, “Not that I’m at liberty to disclose.â€
 
Minnesota's leftist extremists are the biggest bunch of sore losers and whiners I've ever heard of. Can they really be stupid enough to believe for an instant law-abiding American citizens with C.C.W. permits are going to go on shooting rampages in churches?

What self-important fools!
 
These folks need to get back to preaching the gospel and forego the really stupid concern that one of their members may actually carry a CCW during church services. One would think using the money and time they are spending on lawyers and lawsuits could better be used in the many charities in their community.
 
What is everyone's opionion of buisnesses also having to give a verbal warning? I am personally against it. What sucks for us Minnesotans is that the antis have a reason to start an anti gun bill, which they will try to add other antigun garbage to. They fought tooth and nail for over eight years, all or nothing, no compramise. Finally they where the ones to get nothing this year, and we ended up with one of the better ccw laws. This year a lot of dems went out, and republicans went in, including the govenor, and senator.
 
Can they really be stupid enough to believe for an instant law-abiding American citizens with C.C.W. permits are going to go on shooting rampages in churches?

Yes.

They are anitgun, aren't they.

What is that legal phrase about letting the facts speak for themselves.:banghead:

I have read that the law does NOT require a verbal warning but rather a sign and/or a verbal warning, and that the antis are just playing their usual tricks.

NukemJim
 
If it really is "or" then a lot of news organizations are blatantly lying. They specifically said over and over that both were required, I will go look up the law.

EDIT: I looked, it is and for buisnesses acording to ccrn. Here is the text of the law.

(1) "Reasonable request" means a request made under the
28.12 following circumstances:
28.13 (i) the requester has prominently posted a conspicuous sign
28.14 at every entrance to the establishment containing the following
28.15 language: "(INDICATE IDENTITY OF OPERATOR) BANS GUNS IN THESE
28.16 PREMISES."; and
28.17 (ii) the requester or its agent personally informs the
28.18 person of the posted request and demands compliance.

http://www.mnccrn.org/
 
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“Blessed are the peacemakers

I think that statement is sort of ironic:D

Lets hear it for the "peace makers", Sam Colt's version that is:D

Unfortunately many "Christians" just don't get it. The term Liberal Christian comes to mind but life is filled with enough oxymorons:rolleyes:
 
To dustind:

Thank you. It appears that I was wrong. Thank you for correcting me.

NukemJim
 
And this ruling is surprising from the socialist courts of Minnesota because??? How about a law that says if you don't want to allow CCW holders to carry in your establishment you have to post a sign outside that says something like "we don't allow guns in this place". I'm sure that will keep all those evil guns away...:neener:
 
“Last week, all of the Catholic bishops voted to join the lawsuit and the statewide Methodist Conference did so also, and then the Minneapolis Area Synod of the Lutheran Church voted to join,â€
And all gun owners who are members of these Minnesota congregations should STOP PUTTING MONEY IN THE COLLECTION BASKET ON SUNDAY, AND TELL THE CHURCH LEADERS WHY!
 
When the collection basket comes by put in a slip of paper saying that you gave this weeks tithe to a RKBA organization to defend against silly lawsuit.

See if that does not jerk their chain.
 
I wish the leftist Christians would read C.S. Lewis. "A real Christian does not want to stop other people from doing things he himself would not do." (para-phrasing)

No Christian has a right to make others act as they would. This is what we call totalitarianism. God gave us choice for a reason and it was not to make others conform to our will because that, in fact, would be trying to become God.
 
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