Minors/access to guns

[Combat-wombat]

Okay, I am a very responsible and safe 13 year old. My parents are leaning on the side of not allowing me access to a gun. This is something I want, so I can be able to defend myself when they are not here. Please tell me what you think, and if you are on my side, try and help me persuade my parents.
Let's not make the mistake of last thread-people voted "no" because "It's up to the parents" or they don't "know me". If you are uncomfortable taking my side because of those reasons, DON'T ANSWER. Only make a negative argument if you have a real reason. Again, I am very responsible, probably the safest kid in my school. Thanks!

 

[winstonsmith]

I would like to say that I know you fairly well, and if I was your parent I would allow you this. But minors have basically no rights, especially regarding keeping and bearing arms, so as they say in "l337 speek," "joo are teh fuxxored."

But I would ask why you are asking this on the gunboard? Are you looking for vindication? Are you trying to collect arguments for a debate with your parents?

You may be the most responsible kid in your school, but that's not a great standard. You have to compare yourself to adults, if you want the adult responsibility.

 

[cratz2]

Well, across the board, I would generally say 'no' to gun access to a 13 year old male. But in your defense, I think this could depend on the situation. If the house was out in the country and the young man seemed generally well adjusted (no staying in the bedroom for hours on end listening to Marilyn Manson through headphones and writing cryptic messages on school folders) and had reason to be alone during certain hours then, yes... I could see it. But 98% of the time, I'm gonna have to go against you on this one.

I'm only 30 and I remember quite clearly when I was 13... And I'll leave it at that. Not knowing you makes it hard for any responsible young person or adult to give you ammunition (pardon the gratuitous pun ) to use against your parents to attempt to leverage them in to doing something they aren't comfortable with. The best neutral advice I could give you would be to say to arm yourself (again... ) with as many facts regarding gun 'accidents' vs legitimate uses for self defense from pro-gun websites.

 

[winstonsmith]

no staying in the bedroom for hours on end listening to Marilyn Manson through headphones and writing cryptic messages on school folders

That describes me very well... Heh, Some of us need our cave time...

 

[cratz2]

Don't get me wrong... I know that kid very well... I was that kid! (Well, maybe Ozzy with Randy Rhoads instead of Mr Manson )

I know I'm now glad that I didn't have full time access to a handgun or a shotgun at that age. But I know I was me and you guys are you... I don't know you and I don't pretend to know what you're about.

 

[Shaughn Leayme]

"Let's not make the mistake of last thread-people voted "no" because "It's up to the parents" or they don't "know me". If you are uncomfortable taking my side because of those reasons, DON'T ANSWER. Only make a negative argument if you have a real reason. Again, I am very responsible, probably the safest kid in my school. Thanks!"

A meaningful debate on the merits of an arguement are found when, both positive and negatives are freely aired and presented for contemplation.

I don't know you and I do believe that your parents are the suitable arbiters of this decision, even though that is not what you obviously want to hear.

So, mark this post up as "To be ignored"

 

[rayra]

"It's up to the parents" or they don't "know me". If you are uncomfortable taking my side because of those reasons, DON'T ANSWER. Only make a negative argument if you have a real reason.

I consider both of those to be very real 'arguments'.

You should (re)consider your deliberate effort to exclude those reasons.

Your scenario of defending yourself with a firearm in their absence aside, you and most specifically, YOUR ACTS, are indeed their legal, ethical, moral responsiblity until at least your 18th birthday.
Their opinions and concerns are the only ones that matter (re this particular situation).

 

[Steve in PA]

And why would a 13 year old be left home alone?

 

[SoCalGeek]

It's increasingly common these days. I've been left home alone for increasingly long periods of time since i was 9, but i suppose the mileage varies from family to family.

 

[cratz2]

Our oldest child is 7 years old and she stays with a trusted neighbor (who has a child in the same grade) after school so we haven't had to make that decision yet. But like I said, I remember when I was 13 and I was very trustworthy when I was that age. Now trusting others around a 13 year old child is another matter entirely.

Point is, 13 year old children are left home alone often times... Just a matter of life.

 

[Combat-wombat]

I might be left home alone for a couple hours while my parents go out to dinner or something, I don't mean for days or anything.

 

[S_O_Laban]

I say the best argument would be real life situations, where young people used a gun to defend themselves or others. Two that come to mind: Recently ( past couple of years) I read an Ayoob file where a nine year old shot a guy who forced his way into the boys grandmas house intending to steal the guns in the house. Look in Guns Magazine. The second one is a famous case that I belive happed in CA where the guns were locked up and a thirteen year old girl was not able to defend herself or siblings. Someone else may have better details. IOW find real examples of minors using guns responsibly.

Now, having said that, I have a thirteen year old son that stays home by himself for a few hours sometimes. He is a good kid. He has never done anything that would cause me not to trust him while I'm gone. I do not leave him access to any guns while I'm gone, but, make no mistake he is not unarmed. Your mind is your best weapon and the ability to see trouble coming and avoid it is better than dealing with the trouble. IOW even though you don't have access to guns a smart man, like yourself, is far from unarmed. Hang in there ( my mom bought a black powder pistol for me when I was 14 ) some times parents suprise you.

S_O_Laban

 

[Steve in PA]

I have a daughter (freshman in college) and a son (senior in HS), they are only a year apart and they were never left home alone when they were 12 & 13.

When I was growing up in the 60's & 70's....being left alone at 13 was one thing.....heck, you could leave your doors unlocked and go away for the day and not have to worry.

 

[Moparmike]

Take it from a 20yr old:

I too remember what 13 was like, and I can tell you that a loaded gun nearby would have caused my mother more ulcers than my being left alone for a couple hours at home. 13 is not an age that any one is ready to posess an instrument of great responsibility. Would you expect your parents to give you a copy of the car keys? Also remember the most important thing: Child Protection Services have ears in the most unlikely of places, and parents fear having you taken away because a "condition" exists that the government has deemed "unhealthy and detrimental" to your well-being. You're in the PRK, and unless you live on a farm or where bears are knocking on your door, then a gun will put your parents under intense scrutiny at the least. If CPS catches a whiff of something like this, they will not hesitate to take you away, and your parents will be watched VERY CLOSELY if they get you back. Parents arent just watching out for your saftey, they are also doing a CYA move. Sometimes CYA and keeping your son is the better option than letting your responsible son have something and putting keeping your son in jeopardy, even if he would treat it with all the respect it deserves.


Start with a baseball bat. I have found that a T-ball bat is quite nice in a single-handed fashion. Are the butcher knives handy? Start small and work your way up.

 

[c_yeager]

When i was thirteen (11 years ago) my parents kept "my" pistol in the safe in their office (in the home). I had the combination to the safe. But, i was on strict instructions not to open it without very good reason. Did i occasionally open it without the specified "very good reason" sure did. But, i felt bad enough about it that i didnt do it often. During that time and through most of highschool i simply had a baseball bat within easy reach most of the time. That pretty much gave me all the peace of mind that i needed. There was a breif time at the age of 16-17 that i was under a very specific threat. And i chose to have a closer access to a firearm for that purpose. By that age my parents were comfortable with me keeping it locked away in my room (god help me if they knew it rode in my car a few times). But, overall i dont think its the best of ideas allowing completely unrestricted access to a 13 year old. That may sound like a generalization but, since i dont know you thats really the best your going to get. And i was frequently left on my own from the age of 13 on. I started babysitting other kids by the age of 14 so that really depends on the person in question as well.

 

[inventory0297]

I'm all for kids handling guns, feel the best way to reduce accidental shootings of minors would be to FORCE kids in school to take a gun orientation course of some type.

That said, your situation depends on .000005% you, 99.99995% your parents. If they won't have it, you're SOL, and I doubt anyone on a gun forum is going to turn the tables. Free access is a huge responsibility, and when you look back in ten years on what being 13 was like you'll realize its a very borderline proposition, trust me.

For myself, when I was thirteen (a decade ago) I had a 22 and a 12ga. in my room, but I have been shooting since I was 5 and was very well versed in safety practices. The pistols stayed in the safe unless I asked specific permission.

 

[Barbara]

I don't give my (teen-aged) kids open access to firearms, not necessarily because I don't trust them, but because there are often other young people here and I can't trust their level of maturity and/or knowledge.

 

[Drjones]

Make them read the story of the two young children that were brutally murdered with a pitchfork.

The daughter was quite proficient with firearms, but the family guns were locked up.

That should change your parents minds.



Link: http://www.saveourguns.com/selfdefense0008.htm

 

[WonderNine]

Not putting you down CW, putting myself down here.....

Quite honestly I've done so many stupid things with pellet guns/firearms in my youth up until now that I couldn't imagine my 13 year old self owning a REAL firearm without something awful happening.

Of course when I was 13 I knew it all and thought I should be treated like an adult....those were the days....

 

[Tamara]

Please tell me what you think, and if you are on my side, try and help me persuade my parents.

So you're going to present the results of an anonymous online poll to your folks as proof that you should be allowed to keep the gun in your room, along with commentary and anecdotes from anonymous online "grown-ups" as supporting evidence? That sound you hear dead ahead is surf on the rocks; may I recommend a change of course?

Let's not make the mistake of last thread-people voted "no" because "It's up to the parents" or they don't "know me". If you are uncomfortable taking my side because of those reasons, DON'T ANSWER. Only make a negative argument if you have a real reason.

"It's up to your parents" and "I don't know you well enough to answer one way or the other" are both very valid answers.

FWIW, I abstained from voting in your poll, not having enough information at hand to offer a qualified "Yes" or "No" answer. This thread, however, has revealed a sort of insistent, demanding side of you, Mssr. -Wombat, that has provided me the data I need to go vote in your poll.

Post one again when you develop more equanimity, which is a highly desirable trait for those with access to firearms.

 

[JohnBT]

The only two rules I had when left alone as a kid in the '50s were: don't let a stranger into the house and if you must play with matches stand on a kitchen chair and do it in the sink(of course, since I could I never did.)

The only time I was left alone was on Saturday morning when my mom and my aunt went shopping for dresses or some such boring stuff. This started when I was in the third or fourth grade.

Everybody I knew had guns in the closet or hanging on the wall.

Trust must be earned. You, by your actions, will persuade your parents.

John

 

[Ransom]

What are the laws where you are? I think some places might have laws agianst kids of your age owning guns. Besides, what do you expect them to get you? A handgun? I doubt any parent would give a 13 year old anything bigger than a deer rifle. Not exactly good for home defense.

Plus its not like you can just go to a range and practice. Your parents would have to invest the time to make sure you know how to use it properly. Not to mention that at your age they are pretty much 100% responsible for what you do with that gun. All those things add up and they might not see any real benefit. So if they tell you no its not because they are being jerks its probably that they just dont want to invest that much into it.

 

[StuporDave]

The answer to this question depends, totally and completely, on the individual kid involved. Not knowing you personally, I can't answer you.

When I was a teenager, the worst thing I could have had was a gun. But I was not a good kid. Adding guns to a bad attitude and substance abuse would have been a major disaster. (Thankfully, all that is many, many years behind me.)

When my son was your age, there were (are) guns that were "his". He didn't have unsupervised access to them, but he never asked for it. Not sure how I would have answered that question then. Knowing how he's turned out now (He's 18) it wouldn't have been a problem. But I wasn't sure of that then. All I had was my own experience to go by, which wasn't good.

I think what I'm getting at is this. Give your parents a break. They're concerned about your safety and your future, that's all. Don't rush then and continue to prove to them that you're as responsible and muture as you say you are. They'll come around eventually.

Dave

 

[JPM63US]

I have a 13 year old . . .

As the present parent of a 13 year old son, I'll voice my rare opionion.

What is access? This is a key point. My guns are locked in the safe in basement. Son knows where the key is and how to use it . . . so he has access to guns and ammo. But, should I find out he has been playing with any of this when unauthorized . . . well we have ways of making him understand.

He has far greater access to our current father - son project with is the sporterizing of a Yugo M48A as we turn it into his deer rifle for next year. At present is is sitting on our work bench as we fit the new stock. There is not a single round of ammo in the house for that rifle.

He also has access to a 10 meter target air rifle as he is on the rifle team I coach.

We do leave him alone at home for periods ranging from 15 minute trip to the store, to a 2 hour period when he is "babysitting his sisters". The neighbors are great and provide his back-up support if needed. They have similar aged kids and we do this for each other - parents need some time alone.

Bottom line - it is the parents responsibility to teach his children about firearms and to control the access to a level they are comfortable with. Each must decide for themselves based on their own shooting and social experience with teh children.

My 2 cents - JPM

 

[TonyB]

The problem with giving YOU access is that means all your friends have it too when you're around.....you may be the most responsable 13yr old in the world,but your best friend may be a child....this happened to me when I was 13 or 14..best friends have a way of talking you into all kinds of trouble...I had access to my Dad's guns...it lead to me and my best bud shooting a "plastic" trainning buttlet in the basement....thanks God no one was hurt..........it is a balancing act...raising kids that is.I have a 16yr old daughter...does she have total access to my guns.....no......but then agian I KNOW her friends are air-heads.......she knows how to protect herself w/out a gun,and hopefully has common sense about strangers....in a couple of years it may be a different story...but for now I'll be in charge of the home defense......