andrewstorm
member
What rifle does josey whales use to send the redlegs on thier way,much to the discust of mr carpet bagger? and where can i get the replica......
Missouri boat ride
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Busyhands94
Member
If I recall correctly it was a Sharps or maybe a Spencer carbine.
Smokepole14
Member
I pretty sure that it was a sharps rifle. I'm not sure which model it is or if you can even get the long telescopic scope he used.You can't get replicas from dixie gun works and some other places I'll have to check.
Smokepole14
Member
Yes it is an 1865 sharps sniper rifle. I'm not sure where to get a replic other than dgw.
TheBigAR2003
Member
Urban dictionary says that it means to be dead and floating down a river
its a sharps rifle get one from dixie gun works
its a sharps rifle get one from dixie gun works
andrewstorm
member
joseys rifle
would it have been a percussion or a cartridge gun?
would it have been a percussion or a cartridge gun?
Smokepole14
Member
In the movie you never see josey load or unload the gun. He just backs the hammer when he's talkin to mr carpetbagger. I would assume it would be a metallic cartridge blank he was using. Most movies use metallic cartridge blanks in all the guns. If you noticed lone watie and the indian girl used a Richards mason conversion 1860 which is incorrect for this time period. Dixie gun works has sharps rifles all listed as black powder cartridge. 45/70, 45/90, .....etc.
andrewstorm
member
incorrect time period
it doesn't mention how many years had gone by after the red legs raided Josey's homestead and during the civil war there were many rim fire cartridge bored thru cylinder guns available and no doubt early gunsmith homemade illegals although we know the guns in the film were supplied by uberti.......
it doesn't mention how many years had gone by after the red legs raided Josey's homestead and during the civil war there were many rim fire cartridge bored thru cylinder guns available and no doubt early gunsmith homemade illegals although we know the guns in the film were supplied by uberti.......
It is a Falling Block Rifle, chambered in just about everything of the time.....
The 1874-pattern Sharps was a particularly popular rifle that led to the introduction of several derivatives in quick succession. It handled a large number of .40- to .50-caliber (most commonly the .50-90 Sharps) cartridges in a variety of loadings and barrel lengths.
Beauhooligan
Member
kBob
Member
Movie or not do keep in mind that Beecher's Bibles were originally paper or linen "cartridge" out side primed guns. The 1859 &1863 models were the second most common cav carbine in the union army in the ACW. Berdan's Sharpshooters 1st USSS eventually was armed with the full length rifle version. Reproduction outside primed guns are not only available, but a quick use of the search function would show discussions of the various out side primed models available.
Compared to some of the other breech loading carbines the union boys rated the Sharps fairly highly.
After the War the US Army kept some of the carbines and some were later converted to .50 metallic cartridge guns.
-kBob
Compared to some of the other breech loading carbines the union boys rated the Sharps fairly highly.
After the War the US Army kept some of the carbines and some were later converted to .50 metallic cartridge guns.
-kBob
AJumbo
Member
Given the number of Trapdoors and cartridge-converted revolvers carried in the movie, I can't recommend it as good reference work on ACW weaponry. "Josey" is on TV even as I type this, but I tuned in about 17 seconds after the "boatride" scene.
zimmerstutzen
Member
I could not figure out the year that the story is supposed to have taken place in. Last hold outs, could have been a some time after Appomattox. Maybe even a year or two. Good movie despite any anachronisms.
Beauhooligan
Member
:
General Joseph O. Shelby refused to surrender his command and headed off to Mexico in June of 1865. They were close to being the most "hard case" of the Missouri Militia. This story was horribly mangled in the John Wayne/Rock Hudson film Undefeated. I had two family members, the Wilson side of my family, from close to Springfield, Mo. that fought with Shelby, but neither made the trip to Mexico, so they would have been considered "hold outs". They never took the Federal oath, just went back to farming poor land. Both had been on the Lawrence, Kansas raid, which was a reprisal for the Sacking of Osceola, Mo by Senator James H. Lane's "Jawhawkers", a term that was replaced with the term "redlegs" in TOJW because the prior term has become a term of pride for Kansans. Everyone seems to know about Lawrence, but few remember Osceola, primarily because of pro-Union sentiment that has been taught in public schools, but also because the Osceola Raid was on a smaller scale. I would put the time of TOJW shortly after Shelby's departure for Mexico, but not as late as 1866. The anachronisms in the film go beyond the cartridge conversion pistols, which were used because of safety problems with muzzle loaders, and the Trapdoor Springfields, for the same safety reasons and because of dexterity problems with the female actors, to the 1872 Colt Gatling guns used in the surrender sequence. The '72 Colts had 20 and 32 round magazines, but run off more than triple either magazine capacity without being reloaded on screen. My SASS alias comes from an early interest in P.G.T. Beauregard, and the fact that my kin were called "Missouri border Hooligans". "Ruffian" is the alternate term, but Beauregard Ruffian doesn't quite SING.
General Joseph O. Shelby refused to surrender his command and headed off to Mexico in June of 1865. They were close to being the most "hard case" of the Missouri Militia. This story was horribly mangled in the John Wayne/Rock Hudson film Undefeated. I had two family members, the Wilson side of my family, from close to Springfield, Mo. that fought with Shelby, but neither made the trip to Mexico, so they would have been considered "hold outs". They never took the Federal oath, just went back to farming poor land. Both had been on the Lawrence, Kansas raid, which was a reprisal for the Sacking of Osceola, Mo by Senator James H. Lane's "Jawhawkers", a term that was replaced with the term "redlegs" in TOJW because the prior term has become a term of pride for Kansans. Everyone seems to know about Lawrence, but few remember Osceola, primarily because of pro-Union sentiment that has been taught in public schools, but also because the Osceola Raid was on a smaller scale. I would put the time of TOJW shortly after Shelby's departure for Mexico, but not as late as 1866. The anachronisms in the film go beyond the cartridge conversion pistols, which were used because of safety problems with muzzle loaders, and the Trapdoor Springfields, for the same safety reasons and because of dexterity problems with the female actors, to the 1872 Colt Gatling guns used in the surrender sequence. The '72 Colts had 20 and 32 round magazines, but run off more than triple either magazine capacity without being reloaded on screen. My SASS alias comes from an early interest in P.G.T. Beauregard, and the fact that my kin were called "Missouri border Hooligans". "Ruffian" is the alternate term, but Beauregard Ruffian doesn't quite SING.
andrewstorm
member
does the historical record reflect the date
Of the demise of the rebel leader bloody bill?
Of the demise of the rebel leader bloody bill?
KingContraryMan
Member
What do you think the odds are that a good shooter could actually hit that rope?
72coupe
Member
Looking at the third photo presented above there is no smoke from where the nipple would be so this is almost certainly a cartridge rifle correct or not.
andrewstorm
member
the odds are good
Josey wales,hit the rope in the movie ,and those who lived by the gun were very proficient with their weapons as a matter of life or death,and many exhibition shooters consistently shoot ropes in their shows....
Josey wales,hit the rope in the movie ,and those who lived by the gun were very proficient with their weapons as a matter of life or death,and many exhibition shooters consistently shoot ropes in their shows....
Beauhooligan
Member
andrewstorm
William T. "Bloody" Bill Anderson was killed on October 26, 1864. Union militia commanded by Colonel Samuel P. Cox managed to locate Anderson near the hamlet of Albany, which is now part of Orrick, in Ray County, Missouri. Union Colonel Samuel P. Cox described the event:
"I had only about 300 men under my command and gave the word to stand their ground – this fight must be victory or death – and not a man faltered. We dismounted at the wooden bridge leaving our horses in charge of the men with the commissary wagons. Crossing the bridge I stationed my men in the timber and gave explicit instructions not to begin shooting until I gave the command. Lt. Baker was sent ahead to reconnoiter and bring on the fight with instructions to retreat through our line. Cas. Morton, now a retired brigadier general, of Washington, D.C., was sent to Baker with the word to start the fight. Baker dashed up to where Anderson and his men were having meal ground and getting provisions, and opened fire. Instantly Anderson and his men were in their saddles and gave chase to Baker, who retreated under instructions and came dashing through our line. Anderson and some 20 of his men came in their historic manner, with their bridle reins in their teeth and revolver in each hand. When my men opened fire, many of Anderson's command went down. Others turned and fled, but the grim old chieftain and two of his men went right through the line, shooting and yelling, and it was as Anderson and one of his men turned and came back that both of them were killed. The celebrated (Capt.) Archie Clement, who had gone through our line with Anderson, kept right on across the bridge and stampeded my wagon train and its guards boy [sic] yelling to them to fly as the command was cut to pieces, and thinking it was one of their men, they ran and kept it up until I was a day or two getting them together again. In the hubbub, Clement escaped. Clell Miller, afterwards a noted bank robber and a desperate character, was wounded in this fight and taken prisoner. It was with difficulty I restrained my men and the citizens from lynching him."
"Anderson led his men in a charge straight into the waiting militiamen who opened fire upon them. "Bloody Bill" fell from his horse after being shot twice through the side of the head and his surviving men then retreated while being pursued.[7] It has been alleged that a silken cord with fifty-three knots was found on Anderson to mark the number of men he had killed."
Anderson's remains were taken to Richmond, Missouri, put on public display, and photographed. He was then decapitated, his head stuck on a telegraph pole and his body dragged through the streets before being buried in an unmarked grave in Richmond's Pioneer Cemetery. In 1908 the ex-guerrilla and outlaw Frank James arranged for a funeral service at Anderson's grave site. A veteran's tombstone was placed over his grave in 1967 and the birth year is there incorrectly stated as 1840.
William T. "Bloody" Bill Anderson was killed on October 26, 1864. Union militia commanded by Colonel Samuel P. Cox managed to locate Anderson near the hamlet of Albany, which is now part of Orrick, in Ray County, Missouri. Union Colonel Samuel P. Cox described the event:
"I had only about 300 men under my command and gave the word to stand their ground – this fight must be victory or death – and not a man faltered. We dismounted at the wooden bridge leaving our horses in charge of the men with the commissary wagons. Crossing the bridge I stationed my men in the timber and gave explicit instructions not to begin shooting until I gave the command. Lt. Baker was sent ahead to reconnoiter and bring on the fight with instructions to retreat through our line. Cas. Morton, now a retired brigadier general, of Washington, D.C., was sent to Baker with the word to start the fight. Baker dashed up to where Anderson and his men were having meal ground and getting provisions, and opened fire. Instantly Anderson and his men were in their saddles and gave chase to Baker, who retreated under instructions and came dashing through our line. Anderson and some 20 of his men came in their historic manner, with their bridle reins in their teeth and revolver in each hand. When my men opened fire, many of Anderson's command went down. Others turned and fled, but the grim old chieftain and two of his men went right through the line, shooting and yelling, and it was as Anderson and one of his men turned and came back that both of them were killed. The celebrated (Capt.) Archie Clement, who had gone through our line with Anderson, kept right on across the bridge and stampeded my wagon train and its guards boy [sic] yelling to them to fly as the command was cut to pieces, and thinking it was one of their men, they ran and kept it up until I was a day or two getting them together again. In the hubbub, Clement escaped. Clell Miller, afterwards a noted bank robber and a desperate character, was wounded in this fight and taken prisoner. It was with difficulty I restrained my men and the citizens from lynching him."
"Anderson led his men in a charge straight into the waiting militiamen who opened fire upon them. "Bloody Bill" fell from his horse after being shot twice through the side of the head and his surviving men then retreated while being pursued.[7] It has been alleged that a silken cord with fifty-three knots was found on Anderson to mark the number of men he had killed."
Anderson's remains were taken to Richmond, Missouri, put on public display, and photographed. He was then decapitated, his head stuck on a telegraph pole and his body dragged through the streets before being buried in an unmarked grave in Richmond's Pioneer Cemetery. In 1908 the ex-guerrilla and outlaw Frank James arranged for a funeral service at Anderson's grave site. A veteran's tombstone was placed over his grave in 1967 and the birth year is there incorrectly stated as 1840.
andrewstorm
member
wow!
Great story,and a time frame for the movie setting,1864-1865 thank you sir,your a gentleman and a scholar,I would like to see some historically accurate movies made about figures from the 1800s wild bill Hickok life story would be great.
Great story,and a time frame for the movie setting,1864-1865 thank you sir,your a gentleman and a scholar,I would like to see some historically accurate movies made about figures from the 1800s wild bill Hickok life story would be great.
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If the movie moves on the same timeline as the book, its 1867. There was no massacre of holdouts for the kid to be shot in. Rather, he, Josey, and their bunch spent the intervening time robbing banks and such, like the James-Younger Gang, and that's how the Jamie was wounded.
J.T. Gerrity
Member
Not a slant block breech, so def. the later cartridge version. If you want to see real gun confusion, watch "The Good, the Bad..." etc where Tuco's pistol keeps changing back and forth between BP and cartridge. These movies ain't exactly history lessons...
Beauhooligan
Member
Chief Dan George's character "Lone Watie" may be a round about reference to the Cherokee Chief Stand Watie who was a Confederate Brigadier General of cavalry in the Army of the Trans Mississippi commanding the 1st Cherokee Mounted Rifles, troops that were Cherokee, Muskogee and Seminole. He was an amazing man. Check out the Wiki page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_Watie
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