Missouri Lead in the 10MM?

[steve4102]

I have been shooting my 10MMs an awful lot lately. Sending all these jacketed bullets down range is putting a strain on my pocket book. I really like the Missouri 200gr LSWC in my 45's so I though about trying lead in my 10MMs.
So, how fast can these bullets be pushed in the 10 and 40 without causing problems like leading? I have load data that sends a 185gr lead bullet out at 1250fps at 35,000psi. Can the Missouri 180gr lead TCFP handle that kind of velocity/pressure?

Thanks

 

[popper]

I tried HP-38 in 40 with 180 gr. MBC and didn't like it. Too much smoke and some leading after 50 rounds (XDM). Changed back to Unique and very happy. Xtreme says don't run their plated any faster than 1000, so it looks like you will have problems with MBC, not the bullets problem.

 

[noylj]

Lead bullets: the only way to go

If the bullet is larger than barrel groove diameter and the bullet is lubed with the proper lubricant, you can go up to 1800 fps.
Slug your barrel or simply get a few 0.401 lead bullets and fire them and see if you are getting leading. For some reason, commercial lead bullets in 0.402" are hard to find.
I had a minor problem with leading. Found that taking the commercial bullets and giving them a light tumble lube with Lee Liquid Alox solved that problem.
I dump 500 bullets into a casserole pan, dribble a little LLA into the pan, and shuffle the bullets around for a minute or until they are all shiny/wet looking. I then pout them onto a wax paper or aluminum foil the dry. You need very little LLA to make a big difference.
I plan to try Rooster Jacket wax emulsion when I run through all the bullets I have on hand to see if that will also eliminate the residual leading and not smoke as much as LLA.

One commercial lead bullet manufacturer that doesn't need extra lubrication and doesn't smoke is Precision Bullet's Black Bullets lubricated with a Moly-Kote. You can get their 170gn RNFP bullets for $87/1000.
An excellent cast bullet company is Penn. They can supply you with 165gn L-TCBB bullets for $76/1000. This is a GREAT 10mm/.40 bullet.
You can get 180 GR FP bullets for 62.54/1000 from Mastercast.net. I have never ordered from them, but they get good reviews.
However, the price of commercial lead bullets and plated bullets have gone up and real jacketed bullets have not gone up as much. You can get 165gn FMJ bullets for $103/1000 and 180gn FMJ bullets for $110/1000 from Precision Delta. Montana Gold can supply 165gn FMJ bullets for $295/2700 (equivalent to $109/1000) and 180gn FMJ bullets for $295/2500. These are a huge step up from plated bullets.

 

[MissouriBullet]

For some reason, commercial lead bullets in 0.402" are hard to find.

Not a big deal for us, as we have .402 sizing dies and will size to that diameter upon request.

Just FYI.

Brad

 

[General Tso]

I use the MB 180grn. in my Delta Elite. Im running AA#9 and power pistol and I can't get them to not lead my barrel. I use MB for 9mm and they work great, but I can't seem to get the 10mm to not lead.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[MissouriBullet]

Let's do a field experiment -

The 10mm is a mighty round with the potential for very high pressure loads. I love that round, obviously, having bought two Delta Elite's when they were introduced in the mid-80's. They are my favorite handguns out of the 30 or so that I own.

Drop me an email and I'll send you some 180's and some 200's sized to .402 to try out.

If I had the time, I would do the development myself. But I just don't have time to shoot anymore.

Brad

 

[steve4102]

Brad,I've got 500 of your .401 180gr TCFP.
Loaded 50 of them last night with 6.3gr of Unique. Ran them through my DW CBOB. Ran through without a hiccup and accuracy was excellent at 21 yards. Didn't shoot them over a Chrony, sorry. Pulled the barrel and inspected for Lead, nothing that I could see. Ran a Chore-Boy brush through the bore and everything looks good. Maybe 50 rounds isn't enough, duno.

Lots of smoke though, more than I get with my MBC 200gr LSWC in my 45's. I know lubed lead bullets smoke, just wondering if changing powders may reduce some of the smoke in my 10MM?

Who's got a good 180gr Lead bullet load for the 10MM? Yes I have manuals and data, just want to know what others have had success with.

 

[Yarddog]

Unique & Lead = Smoke, But they are accurate
Y/D

 

[noylj]

Brad:

Thanks for information. Do you offer any discounts for over 2K bullets.

Going on with my prior post, you can get 170gn SWC bullets for $33/500 and 180gn TCFP bullets for $34/500 from Missouri Bullets. I have never tried their bullets, but they are on my list to try.

 

[J.R.W.]

I have some of the MBC 180gr TCFPL loaded up in some 400 CorBon cases waiting to shoot. I'm hoping to make it to the range this week. I'll report back when I do. I don't have a chrono but by the books the should be moving ~1150-1200FPS.

 

[LiveLife]

Do you offer any discounts for over 2K bullets.

MBC offers bullet bundles in 1000-4000 quantities and remember that Brad already offers 5% THR discount with the promo code of THR-Original.

Examples:
3000 125 gr 38Spl/9mm bundle comes to $165-5%(THR discount)/3 = $52/1000.
3000 140 gr 40S&W bundle comes to $177-5%(THR discount)/3 = $56/1000

(This for me, depending on component costs, translates to about $4.50-$5.00/50 for 38Spl/9mm and $5.00-$5.50/50 for 40S&W)

I can't find the thread/post right off hand (it's early and coffee hasn't kicked in yet), but Brad offers further discount for 12K, 25K, 50K+ bullets. Contact Brad/Jo Ann at MBC for more details on volume discounts.


Here are other discounts MBC offers from their home page:

Discounts for Dealers and Quantity Orders:
We offer discounts for quantity orders starting at 12,000 bullets. Our generous quantity discounts and immense production capacity make it quick and easy for groups and dealers to stock our wide array of hardness-optimized bullets. We can turn any order around in days and have it stretch-wrapped and banded on one or more pallets, ready for freight pickup for you very quickly.

Discounts for Registered Gun Clubs:
As a reflection of our commitment to the shooting sports, we invite your club to join our registered gun club discount program. Once your club has registered, you will receive a discount code for your members to use when placing orders.

Discounts for Law Enforcement & Military Personnel (active and retired):
We are proud to offer discounts to those who serve. Please give us a call or email us for details.

 

[MissouriBullet]

bds nailed our discount thing, thank you! The first dealer-level discount is 10% at 12k bullets, up to 25% for 100k.

bigwhiteyj, looking forward to the range report.

 

[zxcvbob]

If the bullet is larger than barrel groove diameter and the bullet is lubed with the proper lubricant, you can go up to 1800 fps.

I haven't tried Missouri Bullets (yet) but I have run cast bullets over 1700 fps in a revolver without leading -- with .30 Carbine, which is a higher pressure cartridge than 10mm. So it should be doable.

The no leading was a pleasant surprise. Cleaning a little lead out of the barrel is no big deal; it's easier than cleaning out copper. Just watch out for severe leading so bad that it fills up the rifling and/or constricts the bore.

 

[orionengnr]

I have 500 of the 180 gr TCFPs from Missouri. I have loaded up a total of 100 so far (20 rounds each with 231, Unique, Bullseye, HS6 and Red Dot).
Each load "books" at ~1100 fps.
I have not shot any yet, but will report back after I do.
In the meantime, I am subscribing to see whatever anyone else comes up with.

 

[J.R.W.]

Well, I finally got out and gave the 400 CorBon a run and it was a success. I used Power Pistol and a rather hot load was by far the most accurate. That should have put them moving just over 1200fps. I shot 100 of them today with no leading at all in the G21 with a conversion barrel I was using.

 

[orionengnr]

I ran 5-10 of each of my five different loads (mentioned in post #14 above).
The HS6 feels the snappiest; the rest feel quite tame.

What COAL are you using? Mine are set at 1.260, and I think they are too long. Probably every other round would fail to completely chamber (slide hangs open by 3/8" or so).

Hitting the magazine release (indoor range, to clear a malfunction drop mag and clear chamber) almost always allowed the slide to continue fully into battery. Then re-insert mag, fire round, and 50/50 it would happen again....

 

[noylj]

orionengnr

COL of 1.20x-1.18x works for me.
Also, you are removing all the belling?

 

[orionengnr]

Are you shooting .40S&W?
Because a 1.18 - 1.2 sounds like a .40 S&W round.
A 10mm round should be between 1.240 and 1.260.
I started at the max, because, as my father the carpenter said, it's easier to cut it shorter than to cut it longer.

 

[noylj]

I'm sorry, I have .40 on the brain.
Yeah, my loads are generally 1.260-1.250".

 

[loadedround]

I have been shooting lead in my Delta Elite ever since I bought the first one to hit my area. After trying many types of powder, I have settled on Alliant's Blue Dot for all my medium 10 mm loads with the 180 gr lead bullets.

 

[orionengnr]

How many grains of Blue Dot, what COAL, what velocity?

 

[jeepmor]

I recall that missouri will provide you the proper hardness such that you get good sealing characteristics to reduce leading. However, in my experience, that lube is most of your smoke and you can't get away from it. Fun, but not much rapid fire accuracy shooting, the smoke eventually obscures your vision.

 

[loadedround]

Orionengr: I usually don't post loads here lest someone misuse this data. I basicly use data from both the Lyman and Speer manuals if that would be a help to you. When I started loading for my 10mm there was very little data published, so some loads were by trial and error. I will tell you that it did turn me off AA powders #2 and #5.

 

[orionengnr]

Understood.