Load ok for lead?

[gregj]

Shot my first batch of lead bullets today, IDP #1, 18BRN, 200gr LSWC from Missouri Bullet. I ran them with 5.7gr of W231 and OAL of 1.25. The accuracy was great, little smoke, and fed well. I really liked them, but had a some leading in both my Kimbers.

To reduce leading:
- would the 12BRN better?
- should I reduce my load a little?

TIA

 

[Hondo 60]

You don't say what caliber you're shooting, but I take it it's 45 acp, correct?
Hodgdon's site gives a range of 4.4 - 5.6 grains of 231 with a 200 gr lswc.
Seems you're just a hair over.

But that shouldn't cause leading.

BRN?? I think you mean BHN (Brinell Hardness Number)
And yes, I think your bullets are too hard.
You're only running in the high 800s or low 900s.
No reason to use such a hard bullet at those speeds.

MBC has a GREAT selection in softer lead - 12 BHN

Good luck & stay safe

 

[Sunray]

Like Hondo 60 says, if you're shooting .45 ACP, you're 1/10th of a grain over max (5.6 @ 914 fps) of 231 and .025" too long(1.225" is the OAL for a cast 200 SWC). Neither is going to give you any grief(too long might give you feeding issues though), but it sounds like you don't have a manual. You need one.
Leading is caused by trying to drive cast bullets too fast.

 

[Hondo 60]

Leading is caused by trying to drive cast bullets too fast.

That's one cause, but not the only.
In this case the bullet most likely isn't obturating (sealing off the hot gases) because it's too hard.

A softer bullet should "get the lead out". LOL

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You're both right...
Leading is caused by driving soft lead bullets too hard and too hard bullets driven not hard enough. (that's 2 of the many causes)

 

[snuffy]

Leading is caused by trying to drive cast bullets too fast.

Nothing is so cut and dried. And 1000 fps and under is NOT too fast. IF the bullet is the right size AND it's pushed hard enough to obturate/slug-up in the bore to seal the hot powder gases behind the bullet. The right bullet lube and type is another factor.

 

[gregj]

Sorry guys for the incomplete post, had been a long tiring day.

Yes, 45ACP, Yes I meant BHN. I plan on using these loads for USPSA, and the 18BHN is supposed to be better for making Major, which is why I thought I would try these first.

The leading looked to be primarily about the first half inch of the barrel from the chamber. The rest of the barrel looked pretty clean (that is, no leading). So I'm interpreting this as the bullet has obturated about 1/2" after leaving the case.

but it sounds like you don't have a manual

Actually, I have do have a few, but they often conflict, as we all know. This is the same load I have used for thousands of Berry's 200gr SWC, which they say use a mid range load or for a lead load - so I thought I would try this first, since everything was already set up for it.

My go-to manual is Sierra, doesnt list lead loads specifcally, for 200gr FPJ it lists COAL 1.155, W231 from 5.0 to 6.4. 5.7 puts me right in the middle per Sierra.

Speer #14 lists 5.7 to 6.3 of W231, COAL for TMJ Match SWC as 1.275, and no specific lead loads.

Hornady 7th ed list 5.7 to 6.8 of W231, COAL of 1.245 for FMJ-C/T ENC and for a 200gr LSWC 5.2 to 6.5gr of W231 with COAL of 1.200

Lyman 49th lists 5.4 to 6.1gr of W231, COAL of 1.235 for LSWC.

So the 5.7gr charge, according to my manuals, should put me right in the middle of most load ranges.

Leading is caused by driving soft lead bullets too hard and too hard bullets driven not hard enough. (that's 2 of the many causes)

Given the 18BHN of the bullets, sounds like I need to up my charge a little, and/or maybe shorten the COAL (though I didnt have any feeding problems)? Or is leading the first 1/2" of the barrel normal (gotta give the bullet time to obturate)?

Thanks

 

[LiveLife]

I would increase the OAL to reduce lead/fouling smear near the chamber end that's caused by gas cutting and bullet base erosion.

I use both 18 BHN IDP #1 and 12 BHN Bullseye #1 with 5.0 gr of W231/HP38 at 1.26" - 1.27" OAL out of .451" barrel and don't get leading in the rifling.

As to published OAL, since individual pistol/barrel combinations vary from the testing barrel fixtures used to develop the load data, reloaders should determine the max/ideal OALs by doing a dummy round (no powder/no primer) drop test with the barrel out of the pistol (max OAL) and function test by feeding/chambering from magazine and manually releasing the slide.

Longer OAL will engage the rifling sooner and produce more consistent chamber pressures which reduce gas cutting/bullet base erosion.

 

[Blue68f100]

One thing that your over looking is bullet fit to barrel. Lead bullets should be over sized to seal, 0.001"+ is the std. Yes a softer bullet will help but if the bullet is not sized right it want make much difference. Stay away from ultra fast burn powders with lead. I like 5.1 grs of WST with the 200gr LSWC.

 

[LiveLife]

Ultra fast burn powders like Bullseye have been successfully used for 45ACP (many happily use Titegroup).

W231/HP38 is comparable in burn rate (actually slower) than WST.

My favorite plinking load is with another ultra fast burn powder Promo/Red Dot (4.0 gr with 200 gr SWC).

 

[snuffy]

Stay away from ultra fast burn powders with lead.

Actually it's just the opposite. A fast powder gives the bullet a slap in the butt to begin obturation. A slow(er) powder takes a while to get to top pressure, that's where the leading starts in the first inch or so of the barrel.

One thing that you're over looking is bullet fit to barrel. Lead bullets should be over sized to seal, 0.001"+ is the std. Yes a softer bullet will help but if the bullet is not sized right it won't make much difference.

That's exactly right. If you DON'T know what your bore size is, you can't order bullet sized right. The bores DO vary to a small degree, but standard is .451. Slugging the bore is one of the basic things to do before loading lead. .001 over bore diameter is pretty much standard. If you have to go much over .452, you'll run into problems loading them.

BTW blue68, welcome to THR. Even if you ARE a ford fanatic!

 

[Blue68f100]

BTW blue68, welcome to THR. Even if you ARE a ford fanatic!

Thanks for the welcome. I'm in the middle of a custom restoration on the old PU, hope to finish it one of these years. It's been in the family since 1970.. My dad bought it used in 1970, I drove it in HS.... Dating my self now.