Intune
Member
Oh, please! And what about the innocent woman (denied the ability to ccw) attacked by a CRIMINAL road rager? Gun owners/carriers are always painted as the villains. Grrr.
Missouri Supreme Court desicion handed down today!!!!
- Thread starter jmcc11
- Start date
- Status
Oh, please! And what about the innocent woman (denied the ability to ccw) attacked by a CRIMINAL road rager? Gun owners/carriers are always painted as the villains. Grrr.
Uh, what if he did? Obviously, criminals never let a little thing like the law stop them. At least legal CCW means the woman could legally carry if she wanted and would keep delinquents guessing. An unarmed woman is no match for a man without proper training and even then it may not be enough.
I wonder what the law will do for carjackings? Potentially most every vehicle could have a firearm in it. Doesn't matter if the driver is permitted or not. There might be a statistic to ram down Bradys throat one of these days.
outdoorman63
Member
Pa state lisc
after reading the info Missouri residents cannot apply for a Pa lisc..it states that the residents state issues you must send a copy....if anyone trys let us know if you get one
after reading the info Missouri residents cannot apply for a Pa lisc..it states that the residents state issues you must send a copy....if anyone trys let us know if you get one
10mmshooter
Member
Well fellas....
I contacted the Jackson County Sheriff's Department this morning, and was told that I was welcome to carry concealed in my vehicle if I chose to do so.
The gentleman that I spoke with said that he supports gun rights for law abiding citizens, and said that they will be working very hard to resolve the Hancock issue. He said that it will only be a matter of time before Jackson County starts to process permit applications, and that until then....Car carry IS LEGAL!
I work in a rough part of town, and get off work after dark. I was a little more comfortable on my way home tonight!
I contacted the Jackson County Sheriff's Department this morning, and was told that I was welcome to carry concealed in my vehicle if I chose to do so.
The gentleman that I spoke with said that he supports gun rights for law abiding citizens, and said that they will be working very hard to resolve the Hancock issue. He said that it will only be a matter of time before Jackson County starts to process permit applications, and that until then....Car carry IS LEGAL!
I work in a rough part of town, and get off work after dark. I was a little more comfortable on my way home tonight!
Roger rodbolt
Member
I'm happy to hear that Jackson Co. is correctly interpreting the car carry provision. I'm the state rep. that sponsored concealed carry and the veto override. Concealed carry is legal in Missouri and there is no contest to car carry or reciprocity. Any county is not prohibited from taking applications or issuing permits for CCW but the liberal trial lawyers that filed and donated their money for the constitutional challenge vow to sue each county on a taxpayer status of an unfunded mandate. I doubt if they will sue in all counties but I filed a place holder bill this past Wednesday (HB 1565) which I hope to move quickly through the legislature. We won!! Just a bit more work to the go the last 3" to the goal line....... Larry
Gray Peterson
Member
LARRY!
Hey, I gotta talk to you about some stuff. I realize you're busy, and I know I'm not a constituent, but I gotta a lot of ideas on how to solve this god forsaken problem!
Hey, I gotta talk to you about some stuff. I realize you're busy, and I know I'm not a constituent, but I gotta a lot of ideas on how to solve this god forsaken problem!
revlar
Member
I have a very difficult time believing that Mr. Miller is going to find very many people who will be willing to post more bond money for county-by-county legal challenges with that quarter mil still floating around in the Twilight Zone.
And hey - it's great to see you here on THR Larry! We Missourians owe you a huge thank you!
And hey - it's great to see you here on THR Larry! We Missourians owe you a huge thank you!
Roger rodbolt
Member
Revlar,
I appreciate the thanks but it's easy to work for something you believe in and know will make Missouri a safer place.
Lonnie,
It's good to hear that you in the NW are willing to share and help us in the midwest. My wife asked who called at 1:00am! Larry
I appreciate the thanks but it's easy to work for something you believe in and know will make Missouri a safer place.
Lonnie,
It's good to hear that you in the NW are willing to share and help us in the midwest. My wife asked who called at 1:00am! Larry
outdoorman63
Member
Safer
i moved to Mo from Il to be safer and enjoy life...thank you for helping to give me a chance to protect my family...i have spent 22 years in public service fire/ems and i know that the police cant protect us..that we have to have the will and ability to do it ourselves and you and the lawmakers helped us to do that thanks ...john g
i moved to Mo from Il to be safer and enjoy life...thank you for helping to give me a chance to protect my family...i have spent 22 years in public service fire/ems and i know that the police cant protect us..that we have to have the will and ability to do it ourselves and you and the lawmakers helped us to do that thanks ...john g
longrifleman
Member
Big thanks to R Rodbolt
Thank you Thank you Thank you
I have a few questions that others here might have on some details.
Is the car carry provision going to be "interpereted" differently in different counties for a while? I can see the folks in Boone ,St. Louis, Platte and maybe a few others having to deal with some sore losers and even if the arrests are thrown out it is still a big potential problem.
Also, what is the timeline on getting the Hancock mess fixed? Do you have a veto proof majority to override our idiot Governors threatened veto?
Can't stay on the board long-the cat fight is about to start!!!
(for those not from around here MU Tigers vs. K State Wildcats)
Thank you Thank you Thank you
I have a few questions that others here might have on some details.
Is the car carry provision going to be "interpereted" differently in different counties for a while? I can see the folks in Boone ,St. Louis, Platte and maybe a few others having to deal with some sore losers and even if the arrests are thrown out it is still a big potential problem.
Also, what is the timeline on getting the Hancock mess fixed? Do you have a veto proof majority to override our idiot Governors threatened veto?
Can't stay on the board long-the cat fight is about to start!!!
(for those not from around here MU Tigers vs. K State Wildcats)
Another whining article from the Post Dispatch
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...uri+sorts+out+law,+some+get+permits+elsewhere
While Missouri sorts out law, some get permits elsewhere
By Terry Ganey
Jefferson City Bureau Chief
02/28/2004
JEFFERSON CITY - For the past several days, Vicky McCloskey, a secretary for the sheriff's department in Pennsylvania's Centre County, has been processing applications for concealed weapons permits from Missouri residents.
For a $20 fee, a copy of a drivers license and a filled-out form, Missouri residents can get a Pennsylvania concealed weapons permit if they pass a criminal background check, according to McCloskey.
"We've been sort of bombarded from Missouri," McCloskey said in a telephone interview. "They want a permit from our state."
One of the provisions of Missouri's new concealed weapons law allows people to carry hidden guns in Missouri if they have "a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state."
Some concealed weapons proponents in Missouri are applying for permits from other states in order to carry guns in Missouri while sheriffs and legal experts try to sort out the impact of a decision last week by the Missouri Supreme Court.
The court upheld the constitutionality of the state's concealed weapons law on Thursday, but found fault with its funding mechanism. Until the Legislature repairs that mechanism, Attorney General Jay Nixon has asked county sheriffs around the state to hold off issuing permits.
A bizarre byproduct of the Supreme Court decision is that while there are still unanswered questions about Missouri's permit process, people with permits issued elsewhere - including states where no weapons training is required - would be allowed to carry hidden guns.
Just when that would go into effect is open to legal interpretation. But given all the uncertainties with Missouri's permit law, it appears people licensed in other states will be able to carry guns in Missouri sooner than Missouri-licensed residents.
Meanwhile, Nixon and the law's original sponsor say what's needed to resolve the court's concern about funding is clarification of how county sheriffs may spend the $100 fee that applicants must pay for a permit. The law said sheriffs must use the money for "training and equipment."
However, there are other costs for processing permit applications - fingerprinting for example - that were not covered by the law. Failing to cover those expenses violates the state constitution's revenue lid known as the Hancock Amendment, the court said.
State Rep. Larry Crawford, R-California, the sponsor of the concealed weapons law, has filed a bill that makes a correction. It would say sheriffs can spend the fee for equipment, training "and any reasonable expenses related to accepting and processing" applications for permits.
Crawford's fix seems simple enough, but the concealed weapons issue has vexed the Legislature for more than a decade. The last time it was approved, votes were forced in both the House and Senate, and eventually lawmakers had to override Gov. Bob Holden's veto.
Crawford said that if lawmakers focus only on the fact that his bill is a funding correction and not a part of the controversial concealed weapons law, there should be no problem getting it approved quickly.
"It's an election year," Crawford said. "It's tough to do a lot of things in an election year. But I think it's clear that a two-thirds' majority of the General Assembly overrode a governor's veto. That's a strong message about how strongly we feel about the protection of conceal and carry."
Cloudy issues
In an attempt to clarify the law, the Missouri Sheriff's Association on Friday distributed a memo to sheriffs around the state that seemed to add to the confusion.
The memo told sheriffs they could not charge the entire $100 fee that is contained in the law, but that they had to calculate a fee equal to their costs for "training and equipment."
"Each sheriff's office is going to have to calculate these training and equipment charges before applications can be accepted," said Jim Vermeersch, general counsel for the Missouri Sheriff's Association. "This will take some time."
Vermeersch advised sheriffs to prepare to accept applications, but that to wait until their fee amounts are calculated. This raises the prospect that the fees could vary from county to county.
"This delay is beneficial because it will allow the courts, the attorney general or the Legislature to fix the funding problems in the statute," Vermeersch added.
He also pointed out that the fee is not refundable once it is received by the sheriffs.
"So it may not be in anyone's best interest to begin the application process and pay the 'nonrefundable fee' because an injunction may be applied in every county before the permit can be issued," Vermeersch said.
Because of the Supreme Court's opinion on the Hancock Amendment, opponents to the gun law have threatened to file lawsuits around the state challenging any sheriff's funding mechanism that does not meet the court's test.
Kevin Jamison, the president of the Western Missouri Shooters Alliance, said such delays create an irony. He said suits could be filed in all 114 counties and the city of St. Louis, shutting down the issuing of licenses in the entire state.
"But you can send 20 bucks off to Pennsylvania and people can get a license without taking a safety course and not being oriented on the Missouri law and cheating sheriffs out of the money," Jamison said.
Jamison, who lives in the Kansas City suburb of Gladstone, has done just that. Two weeks ago he sent $20, a copy of his drivers license and a completed form to the sheriff's office in Bellefonte, Pa. He said he's yet to get his concealed weapons permit, but that he knew of others who had.
Jamison said a Missouri resident could do the same thing in Florida but that the fee was $117. Opponents of the Missouri law say the ability to carry a gun in Missouri with a license issued by another state is one of its glaring loopholes.
"We have issued a lot of them to Missouri," said McCloskey, the secretary in the Centre County sheriff's department. She said she did not know how many, but that demand had become so great that the turnaround time had become four weeks.
Not counting Missouri, 35 states have "right-to-carry" laws, which give a state agency or the county sheriff the power to issue concealed gun permits. Nine states have a "may issue" law, which gives law enforcement some discretion in issuing permits.
The law the Missouri Legislature enacted over Holden's veto requires county sheriffs to issue concealed weapons permits to people at least 23 years old who have passed a criminal background check and completed handgun safety training. Missouri voters defeated a similar provision in a statewide referendum in 1999.
The new Missouri law also allows people who are 21 and older to carry handguns in the glove compartments of their cars without a permit. That provision, like the one involving out-of-state permits, apparently goes into effect without any more judicial scrutiny.
Nixon, the attorney general, said he believed those parts of the law became effective when the Supreme Court on Thursday dissolved the injunction that had been issued in October by St. Louis Circuit Judge Steve Ohmer against enforcement of the law. Jamison, who is a lawyer, said Supreme Court decisions are effective 15 days after they are issued to give parties time to file for reconsideration.
Jamison said he believed Nixon's interpretation was correct, "but it would be a terrible thing to be the last person charged carrying concealed in your car."
Reporter Terry Ganey
E-mail: [email protected]
Phone: 573-635-6178
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...uri+sorts+out+law,+some+get+permits+elsewhere
While Missouri sorts out law, some get permits elsewhere
By Terry Ganey
Jefferson City Bureau Chief
02/28/2004
JEFFERSON CITY - For the past several days, Vicky McCloskey, a secretary for the sheriff's department in Pennsylvania's Centre County, has been processing applications for concealed weapons permits from Missouri residents.
For a $20 fee, a copy of a drivers license and a filled-out form, Missouri residents can get a Pennsylvania concealed weapons permit if they pass a criminal background check, according to McCloskey.
"We've been sort of bombarded from Missouri," McCloskey said in a telephone interview. "They want a permit from our state."
One of the provisions of Missouri's new concealed weapons law allows people to carry hidden guns in Missouri if they have "a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state."
Some concealed weapons proponents in Missouri are applying for permits from other states in order to carry guns in Missouri while sheriffs and legal experts try to sort out the impact of a decision last week by the Missouri Supreme Court.
The court upheld the constitutionality of the state's concealed weapons law on Thursday, but found fault with its funding mechanism. Until the Legislature repairs that mechanism, Attorney General Jay Nixon has asked county sheriffs around the state to hold off issuing permits.
A bizarre byproduct of the Supreme Court decision is that while there are still unanswered questions about Missouri's permit process, people with permits issued elsewhere - including states where no weapons training is required - would be allowed to carry hidden guns.
Just when that would go into effect is open to legal interpretation. But given all the uncertainties with Missouri's permit law, it appears people licensed in other states will be able to carry guns in Missouri sooner than Missouri-licensed residents.
Meanwhile, Nixon and the law's original sponsor say what's needed to resolve the court's concern about funding is clarification of how county sheriffs may spend the $100 fee that applicants must pay for a permit. The law said sheriffs must use the money for "training and equipment."
However, there are other costs for processing permit applications - fingerprinting for example - that were not covered by the law. Failing to cover those expenses violates the state constitution's revenue lid known as the Hancock Amendment, the court said.
State Rep. Larry Crawford, R-California, the sponsor of the concealed weapons law, has filed a bill that makes a correction. It would say sheriffs can spend the fee for equipment, training "and any reasonable expenses related to accepting and processing" applications for permits.
Crawford's fix seems simple enough, but the concealed weapons issue has vexed the Legislature for more than a decade. The last time it was approved, votes were forced in both the House and Senate, and eventually lawmakers had to override Gov. Bob Holden's veto.
Crawford said that if lawmakers focus only on the fact that his bill is a funding correction and not a part of the controversial concealed weapons law, there should be no problem getting it approved quickly.
"It's an election year," Crawford said. "It's tough to do a lot of things in an election year. But I think it's clear that a two-thirds' majority of the General Assembly overrode a governor's veto. That's a strong message about how strongly we feel about the protection of conceal and carry."
Cloudy issues
In an attempt to clarify the law, the Missouri Sheriff's Association on Friday distributed a memo to sheriffs around the state that seemed to add to the confusion.
The memo told sheriffs they could not charge the entire $100 fee that is contained in the law, but that they had to calculate a fee equal to their costs for "training and equipment."
"Each sheriff's office is going to have to calculate these training and equipment charges before applications can be accepted," said Jim Vermeersch, general counsel for the Missouri Sheriff's Association. "This will take some time."
Vermeersch advised sheriffs to prepare to accept applications, but that to wait until their fee amounts are calculated. This raises the prospect that the fees could vary from county to county.
"This delay is beneficial because it will allow the courts, the attorney general or the Legislature to fix the funding problems in the statute," Vermeersch added.
He also pointed out that the fee is not refundable once it is received by the sheriffs.
"So it may not be in anyone's best interest to begin the application process and pay the 'nonrefundable fee' because an injunction may be applied in every county before the permit can be issued," Vermeersch said.
Because of the Supreme Court's opinion on the Hancock Amendment, opponents to the gun law have threatened to file lawsuits around the state challenging any sheriff's funding mechanism that does not meet the court's test.
Kevin Jamison, the president of the Western Missouri Shooters Alliance, said such delays create an irony. He said suits could be filed in all 114 counties and the city of St. Louis, shutting down the issuing of licenses in the entire state.
"But you can send 20 bucks off to Pennsylvania and people can get a license without taking a safety course and not being oriented on the Missouri law and cheating sheriffs out of the money," Jamison said.
Jamison, who lives in the Kansas City suburb of Gladstone, has done just that. Two weeks ago he sent $20, a copy of his drivers license and a completed form to the sheriff's office in Bellefonte, Pa. He said he's yet to get his concealed weapons permit, but that he knew of others who had.
Jamison said a Missouri resident could do the same thing in Florida but that the fee was $117. Opponents of the Missouri law say the ability to carry a gun in Missouri with a license issued by another state is one of its glaring loopholes.
"We have issued a lot of them to Missouri," said McCloskey, the secretary in the Centre County sheriff's department. She said she did not know how many, but that demand had become so great that the turnaround time had become four weeks.
Not counting Missouri, 35 states have "right-to-carry" laws, which give a state agency or the county sheriff the power to issue concealed gun permits. Nine states have a "may issue" law, which gives law enforcement some discretion in issuing permits.
The law the Missouri Legislature enacted over Holden's veto requires county sheriffs to issue concealed weapons permits to people at least 23 years old who have passed a criminal background check and completed handgun safety training. Missouri voters defeated a similar provision in a statewide referendum in 1999.
The new Missouri law also allows people who are 21 and older to carry handguns in the glove compartments of their cars without a permit. That provision, like the one involving out-of-state permits, apparently goes into effect without any more judicial scrutiny.
Nixon, the attorney general, said he believed those parts of the law became effective when the Supreme Court on Thursday dissolved the injunction that had been issued in October by St. Louis Circuit Judge Steve Ohmer against enforcement of the law. Jamison, who is a lawyer, said Supreme Court decisions are effective 15 days after they are issued to give parties time to file for reconsideration.
Jamison said he believed Nixon's interpretation was correct, "but it would be a terrible thing to be the last person charged carrying concealed in your car."
Reporter Terry Ganey
E-mail: [email protected]
Phone: 573-635-6178
The Post is also running a poll:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/city-county
On the right side of the page, about 1/3 down.
Do you plan to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon in Missouri?
68%
YOU BET -- Finally I have the means to defend myself
32%
NO WAY -- We don't need more guns on the street
http://www.stltoday.com/news/city-county
On the right side of the page, about 1/3 down.
Do you plan to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon in Missouri?
68%
YOU BET -- Finally I have the means to defend myself
32%
NO WAY -- We don't need more guns on the street
MizzouDrew
Member
Larry,
What is the procedure for HB 1565? I'm assuming that Holden will have to sign the bill. Is this going to be a problem?
Regards,
Drew
What is the procedure for HB 1565? I'm assuming that Holden will have to sign the bill. Is this going to be a problem?
Regards,
Drew
It sure looks like there is all kinds of confusion. I guess you could be prosecuted in ST Louis County until March 12, but you're gold with an out of state permit in the city today.
Jeff
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...Officials+differ+on+when+gun+law+takes+effect
Officials differ on when gun law takes effect
By Heather Ratcliffe
Post-Dispatch
02/28/2004
The St. Louis County prosecutor says the Supreme Court ruling upholding the law allowing concealed guns won't become final until March 12. The city prosecutor says her office will act as if the law took effect immediately.
Some might call it Missouri's confused weapons law.
Only a day after the state Supreme Court ruled that the law allowing the carrying of concealed weapons was constitutional - but the way it was funded was not - confusion emerged about exactly when the ruling goes into effect.
The Supreme Court's ruling says state residents over 21 can begin carrying weapons in the passenger area of their vehicles.
But St. Louis County Prosecutor Robert McCulloch says that doesn't mean immediately.
He said motorists won't have the right to carry a gun until the Supreme Court's decision becomes final after March 12. That's when the deadline expires for parties who might wish to file a motion asking the court to reconsider its decision. After the deadline, the court will issue a mandate to enforce its decision.
"Right now, police officers should take the gun," McCulloch said. "It's still illegal."
Or is it?
St. Louis Prosecuting Attorney Jennifer Joyce saw it differently. She said Friday, "We are treating it as if it went into effect today."
In Jefferson City, Beth Riggert, communications council with the Missouri Supreme Court, said "The decision is not final until the mandate is issued."
The Missouri attorney general's office said lawyers were reviewing the decision and meeting with legislative leaders to find a solution to the problems presented in the law.
Beth Hammock, a spokesman for Attorney General Jay Nixon, said she could not clarify when the concealed weapons law goes into effect.
But it if there's confusion about when people can carry guns in their cars, there's definite interest in getting a concealed weapons permit.
On Friday, several sheriffs departments, including those in Lincoln and Warren counties in the St. Louis area, began accepting applications for the permits.
Six people had gone to the Warren County Sheriff's Department for an application by late Friday.
In Lincoln County, about 10 people were waiting outside when the Sheriff Department's opened Friday morning, said Sheriff Dan Torres.
Steve Williams, 54, of Winfield, applied for a permit Friday. He said a gun would make him feel safer and give him more power to protect himself and his family.
"I know somebody's not going to take my vehicle or my life because they think they need it a little more than I do," he said. "At least it makes it a little more of an even playing field."
Dennis Hamack, 57, of Elsberry, even went to Jefferson City last week to rally for the law and has sent dozens of postcards and letters to government officials. He says carrying a gun won't make him feel any different - in the worst-case scenario, he could use it to help somebody in trouble.
"This isn't going to be Dodge City. This isn't going to be the O-K Corral," he said Friday after turning in his application. "Guns save lives. ... It tells those perpetrators, you don't have free reign over everyone out here."
Paul Bass, 66, of Moscow Mills, called Friday a "great day for the state of Missouri."
Bass is a former police officer who worked in several police departments in the St. Louis area, and says normal citizens carrying concealed weapons had come to his rescue several times, possibly saving his life.
Police will be wary
Meanwhile, some police will be changing the way they approach drivers during routine traffic stops once the concealed weapons law takes effect.
What has some officers worried is that the law allows people 21 years or older to carry a weapon in their cars even without a permit.
"The first thing they are going to ask the driver is if he is carrying a gun," said St. Louis County Police Chief Ronald Battelle.
Most officers will take away the gun while in contact with the driver. Some officers will handcuff the driver and passengers while they retrieve the weapon, Battelle said.
"Safety will be foremost in all our minds," Battelle said. "Police work is a risky business at best. This just makes it more risky."
Officers may unload the weapon and secure it. Then they will check computer records to determine if the gun is stolen.
"The officer has a responsibility to make sure the gun is legal," McCulloch said.
The officer may put the weapon in the trunk of a passenger car or the toolbox of a pickup truck. Motorists can retrieve the weapon after the officer leaves.
"The police officer will return the firearm unless the individual is being charged with a violation," St. Louis Police Chief Joseph Mokwa said in a statement.
But confusion persists about the high court's ruling.
"It's so new, and there's so many questions," said Maj. Kevin Harrison, of the Warren County Sheriff's Department. "If (deputies) stop somebody tonight (Friday night) and there's a concealed weapon in the car, they're going to handle it the same way as they would last Friday night."
"They're going to err on the side of caution, and they're going to let the rest be determined in the courts."
Jeff
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...Officials+differ+on+when+gun+law+takes+effect
Officials differ on when gun law takes effect
By Heather Ratcliffe
Post-Dispatch
02/28/2004
The St. Louis County prosecutor says the Supreme Court ruling upholding the law allowing concealed guns won't become final until March 12. The city prosecutor says her office will act as if the law took effect immediately.
Some might call it Missouri's confused weapons law.
Only a day after the state Supreme Court ruled that the law allowing the carrying of concealed weapons was constitutional - but the way it was funded was not - confusion emerged about exactly when the ruling goes into effect.
The Supreme Court's ruling says state residents over 21 can begin carrying weapons in the passenger area of their vehicles.
But St. Louis County Prosecutor Robert McCulloch says that doesn't mean immediately.
He said motorists won't have the right to carry a gun until the Supreme Court's decision becomes final after March 12. That's when the deadline expires for parties who might wish to file a motion asking the court to reconsider its decision. After the deadline, the court will issue a mandate to enforce its decision.
"Right now, police officers should take the gun," McCulloch said. "It's still illegal."
Or is it?
St. Louis Prosecuting Attorney Jennifer Joyce saw it differently. She said Friday, "We are treating it as if it went into effect today."
In Jefferson City, Beth Riggert, communications council with the Missouri Supreme Court, said "The decision is not final until the mandate is issued."
The Missouri attorney general's office said lawyers were reviewing the decision and meeting with legislative leaders to find a solution to the problems presented in the law.
Beth Hammock, a spokesman for Attorney General Jay Nixon, said she could not clarify when the concealed weapons law goes into effect.
But it if there's confusion about when people can carry guns in their cars, there's definite interest in getting a concealed weapons permit.
On Friday, several sheriffs departments, including those in Lincoln and Warren counties in the St. Louis area, began accepting applications for the permits.
Six people had gone to the Warren County Sheriff's Department for an application by late Friday.
In Lincoln County, about 10 people were waiting outside when the Sheriff Department's opened Friday morning, said Sheriff Dan Torres.
Steve Williams, 54, of Winfield, applied for a permit Friday. He said a gun would make him feel safer and give him more power to protect himself and his family.
"I know somebody's not going to take my vehicle or my life because they think they need it a little more than I do," he said. "At least it makes it a little more of an even playing field."
Dennis Hamack, 57, of Elsberry, even went to Jefferson City last week to rally for the law and has sent dozens of postcards and letters to government officials. He says carrying a gun won't make him feel any different - in the worst-case scenario, he could use it to help somebody in trouble.
"This isn't going to be Dodge City. This isn't going to be the O-K Corral," he said Friday after turning in his application. "Guns save lives. ... It tells those perpetrators, you don't have free reign over everyone out here."
Paul Bass, 66, of Moscow Mills, called Friday a "great day for the state of Missouri."
Bass is a former police officer who worked in several police departments in the St. Louis area, and says normal citizens carrying concealed weapons had come to his rescue several times, possibly saving his life.
Police will be wary
Meanwhile, some police will be changing the way they approach drivers during routine traffic stops once the concealed weapons law takes effect.
What has some officers worried is that the law allows people 21 years or older to carry a weapon in their cars even without a permit.
"The first thing they are going to ask the driver is if he is carrying a gun," said St. Louis County Police Chief Ronald Battelle.
Most officers will take away the gun while in contact with the driver. Some officers will handcuff the driver and passengers while they retrieve the weapon, Battelle said.
"Safety will be foremost in all our minds," Battelle said. "Police work is a risky business at best. This just makes it more risky."
Officers may unload the weapon and secure it. Then they will check computer records to determine if the gun is stolen.
"The officer has a responsibility to make sure the gun is legal," McCulloch said.
The officer may put the weapon in the trunk of a passenger car or the toolbox of a pickup truck. Motorists can retrieve the weapon after the officer leaves.
"The police officer will return the firearm unless the individual is being charged with a violation," St. Louis Police Chief Joseph Mokwa said in a statement.
But confusion persists about the high court's ruling.
"It's so new, and there's so many questions," said Maj. Kevin Harrison, of the Warren County Sheriff's Department. "If (deputies) stop somebody tonight (Friday night) and there's a concealed weapon in the car, they're going to handle it the same way as they would last Friday night."
"They're going to err on the side of caution, and they're going to let the rest be determined in the courts."
Gray Peterson
Member
It's good to hear that you in the NW are willing to share and help us in the midwest. My wife asked who called at 1:00am! Larry
Sorry, Larry. I was kinda caught up in the heat of the moment, and it's 2 hours behind that here!
Sorry, Larry.
I was kinda caught up in the heat of the moment, and it's 2 hours behind that here!Gray Peterson
Member
Yep. I bet you dime on a dollar that Holden will veto.
revlar
Member
Lonnie - I have a strong feeling you're right. They don't call him One-Term Bob for nothing. He might as well go down in flames.
But I try to look at the upside - now that the out-of-state cat is out of the bag, should they try to attach an amendment to do away with those - he'll end up killing that revision too. And anyway - what the heck - I'm sure Florida can always use the money.
Either way - in the meantime, I'm already covered - thanks to Pennsylvania (and my ability to read the handwriting on the wall).
But I try to look at the upside - now that the out-of-state cat is out of the bag, should they try to attach an amendment to do away with those - he'll end up killing that revision too. And anyway - what the heck - I'm sure Florida can always use the money.
Either way - in the meantime, I'm already covered - thanks to Pennsylvania (and my ability to read the handwriting on the wall).
Frohickey
Member
I think Missouri sheriffs better wise up fast. Thats a lot of money going into other states for CCW permits instead of Missouri.
lessthan
Member
Rep. Crawford,
I just wanted to join the other Missouri High Road members in thanking you for all of your hard work.
Wish there were more like you!
I just wanted to join the other Missouri High Road members in thanking you for all of your hard work.
Wish there were more like you!
goalie
Member
If they cuff you for legally carrying during a routine traffic stop and no other reason I would talk to an attorny ASAP. I would also refuse to allow the police to search my vehicle. Looks like Missouri wants to give the whiney Minnesotan's a run for their money in the sour-grapes department.
Does MO have a provision to identify whether or not you have a weapon?
If not, and you know you're in for some "rough justice," can you just refuse to answer and let the cop determine if he has probable cause to do a search? You may as well not make it easy if they're gonna slap the bracelets on no matter what.
If not, and you know you're in for some "rough justice," can you just refuse to answer and let the cop determine if he has probable cause to do a search? You may as well not make it easy if they're gonna slap the bracelets on no matter what.
Chuck Jennings
Member
I have heard of this happening before. It is done under the guise of officer saftey. The theory is, "If there is one gun, there may be two."
PATH
Member
I hope the 4th Amendment as well as other rights are not violated in Missouri. I have been waiting a bit for my PA license. I now know why I have been waiting so long!
I doff my cap to all you folks in Missouri who made concealed carry a reality there.
I doff my cap to all you folks in Missouri who made concealed carry a reality there.
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