Mix Safe Action with DA/SA ?

[Jenrick]

The DA trigger pull is quite shootable in the VAST majority of guns, though I will admit that certain manufactures do seem to have exceptionally heavy DA triggers. The two main arguments against the DA pull:

That it's heavy, and makes for poor first round accuracy and speed. Ironically for decades the DA revolver was the preeminent weapon used in live fire fast draw competitions such as the leather slap, as well as early gun games (like the SW Pistol League shoots). It was felt that no other weapon had the combination of speed and accuracy that a DA revolver offered. A TDA semi-auto is no less mechanically accurate due to a heavier longer first trigger pull, it simply requires a shooter to exercise better trigger control to reach the mechanical accuracy.

The second complaint is that there are "two trigger pulls." Well there are two trigger pull weights, but only a single reset. The reset length is the only issue that would affect a shooter with good trigger control. A trigger of reasonable weight (say 12lbs or less) should be pulled the same as a trigger that is dangerously light - smoothly straight to the rear. The issue that arises is that shooters don't execute a correct trigger pull and end up slapping the heck out of the DA trigger , and the SA trigger. A shooter whoever who has a good DA stroke easily transitions to the SA stroke, as you simply pull it to the rear smoothly (just like ANY other trigger system!). A reset of varying lengths would create problems for shooters who are used to shooting off the reset. However there is only 1 reset on the pistol, and it is the same from DA to SA, and for SA to SA. So that's not a problem.

As already noted the major advantage a TDA provides is the vast majority of the shooting you will do in competition will be done in SA mode. Even a mediocre SA trigger on a quality pistol like a Sig or HK, will be far superior to even a tuned SF trigger.

I find value in both systems, but don't give up on a TDA pistol just because you have to focus on the DA shooting a bit.

-Jenrick

 

[SAPR]

Thanks for the mass of informative and convincing posts !

I now believe using both, Glock and HK, can be done with some amount of training and just ordered the mother of all USPs (as I had an itch for a Mk23 for quite some time).

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I have Safe Action pistols and DA/SA pistols and SA pistols...striker fired, hammer fired, slide mounted decockers, safeties/grip safeties, *no* external safeties. I started on DA and SA revolvers and was trained to shoot by cops who carried DA revolvers.

If DA/SA is such a nightmare and so terribly inaccurate and slow for first shot I wonder how all those police officers survived all those years carrying DA revolvers? I have interviewed numerous gunfight survivors who used DA revolvers and SA pistols to survive....some LE officers in my own family.

It's a *training* issue and while some may prefer striker fired Safe Action pistols they are not the only game for shooting in town. Yes, DA takes more work and practice to "master" but if you spend that time (and it's hours not years...) to get 3000 - 30,000 DA pulls under your belt you might find you actually prefer a pistol with a decocker and hammer fired DA/SA.

I have 'em all and shoot them all and prefer the now classic M92 style pistol with hammer down, first shot DA and then R&R with SA. There's a reason that different platforms still exist and that reason is because different things work better for some people. Try DA/SA and give it a fair shot....

VooDoo

 

[ku4hx]

The human mind, and body, is amazingly adaptive. I own revolvers and semi-autos in pretty much every format: single action, double action, double action first shot and etc. In rifles I own single shots, semi autos, bolt actions ... all sorts of actions. Same for shotguns with the addition of double and single trigger double barreled in both SxS and O/U. It never occurred to me not to learn to shoot them all and shoot them all well.

Buy what you want and learn to shoot it. Learning to shoot a different action type does not push out of your brain and body the abilities you acquired with other action types.

 

[Chuck R.]

Count me in the minority that feels most gun owners would be better off with anything but DA/SA.

Yes, the DA/SA can be learned, practiced etc. but the bottom line is the majority of handgun owners do not practice (note I didn't say shooters). They don't even dry fire regularly. The majority I've seen at the range load their pistol from slide lock and commence firing in SA. When ROing IDPA matches I watched many new shooters lose either the 1st or second shot transitioning. I had a young Army Captain (IN) out at my place last week with an HK USP that he'd owned for years (also trained on 92s) and probably 40% of his shots from a holster "on the clock" were misses. He either missed, or ate time concentrating on getting a hit DA, then transitioning to SA.

For me personally, I don't feel DA/SA is worth the effort. I've owned 4 SIGs (still have 1) and an HK45 (Now a V9 SA). and I've practiced with each one to the point I can get what I consider to be "OK" with them. I have a range out back and shoot a couple times a week, can't count how many rounds I shot just doing double taps learning the DA/SA.

At the end of the day, I've come to the conclusion that for me it's just not worth it. On a timer I'm hands down faster with a consistent trigger pull, the difference is magnified the further out the targets are. There's not a DA/SA pistol out there that I think offers that much of an advantage over a striker/SA that I'm willing to spend time with. For the time and ammo spent screwing with it, I can become more proficient using either a striker or a SA pistol.

Just my thoughts......

Chuck

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Count me in the minority that feels most gun owners would be better off with anything but DA/SA.

Yes, the DA/SA can be learned, practiced etc. but the bottom line is the majority of handgun owners do not practice (note I didn't say shooters).

I agree with this statement - if yer not gonna shoot or become proficient/train with *any* platform? A person who goes out and buys a handgun and shoots it once/twice over a 3 year period?

Way better off with "point it at what you want destroyed and pull the trigger" than anything that takes practice. For these folks, which likely makes up 99% of gun owners I'd guess, anything past acquire target, acquire trigger, shoot, is TMI.

VooDoo

 

[strambo]

For anyone willing to actually train with their guns, mastering the DA/SA doesn't take any more time, you would have been training with something anyway. However, once mastered, the ability to manage a DA trigger pull fast and accurately will have a positive effect on all your shooting IMO.

I'm not sure when I felt I truly mastered the DA/SA. but a 2 day training course (16 hrs) should get you between 90% to all the way there. The problem is, most people either a) don't go to training courses and/or b) don't have the discipline to dry fire and shoot at a range anything resembling quality training.

I'm thinking of ditching my Kahr K9 which has a very good and consistent light striker DA pull for a P225 or P239 because I run my full size P226 so much better. The trigger reset on the Kahr is also totally different.

Switching between a DA/SA and a short reset striker gun like the Glocks, M&P etc. shouldn't be an issue. A long reset gun like the Kahr is tough.