mk II trigger job update,,,

[280PLUS]

after nearly 300 rounds...

very nice, maybe still a little creep, much smoother and cleaner than the original

trips at 2.5 lbs but not at 2

i managed to pull a 100 and an 8x / 99 rapid fire at 50 ft

no misfires

probably added 10 to 15 points to my overall score

may have to change my screenname to 290 plus

theyre saying dont lubricate the sear face

why??

will it reduce the trigger pull pressure to below 2 lbs or is there some other reason i should be aware of?

either way,,,wahoooo!! on the trigger job

 

[bountyhunter]

I lube the heck out of the sear face and hammer hook face with Militec lube. Not sure why anybody shouldn't. I have all the stock parts in mine with just a light polish on the sear/hammer face and my trigger breaks very clean at 2.2#.

What's the course of fire on your league you are referring to?

Ours is 30 rounds in sets of five: half slow fire at 25 yards, half rapid fire at 15 yards. I shot a couple of 300's with my Ruger Slabside. Surprised myself.

 

[280PLUS]

this would be,,,

30 rounds at 50 feet

10 slow (10 rounds 10 minutes)

10 timed (2 strings of 5 / 20 sec per string)

10 rapid (2 strings of 5 / 10 sec per string)

oh, i would love to shoot a 300

noone in the league shot one last season

there were no perfect slow fire targets as well

quite a few guys had a couple perfect timed or rapids

and then the top 2 had like 14 and 15 each

these 2 were both state champs in different years recently but this year lost to someone i'm not familiar with

they were #2 and #3 however

they happen to be my teamates

we were undefeated last 2 years...



they take the top 5 scores to make the team score

i made it 3 times last year, that was my first year

i shot a 97 slowfire saturday in amongst 5 slowfire target strings

my lowest was a 90

prior to the change 85-93 was about where i'd be

i also shot 8 rapid and the lowest was 96

96 was about my average score on those

i'm gettin' pumped!!

 

[Bob Brown]

"They" say don't lube the sear crown because the lube will attract combustion debris and engrave on the metal, causing a rough letoff...and they're right. However, if you use something like Militec or FP10, it'll work just fine.

 

[280PLUS]

i had a feeling that was it,,,

i use militec for all my guns.

with militec or FP-10 won't this abrasiveness still be an issue?

i notice debris still seems to cling

or am i overlubricating?

its possible, i was brought up to like lots of oil on stuff that needs oil,,,

but i do a good wipedown after lubing

 

[bountyhunter]

I've got the Volquartsen trigger shield in mine so I guess the blowback crud can't get to the trigger or sear.

BTW: In our bullseye leage we shoot the standard bullseye target from:

25 yards, we get a total of two minutes to shoot five rounds. Do it three times.

15 yards, I think it is five rounds in ten seconds three times.

Then we shoot a second target and total the scores of the two targets together.

I have shot a few 300's with the open gun (red dot) and one 300 with iron sights (lotsa luck required with my eyes), but I have never shot a double 300 for a perfect score on both targets. We have maybe three or four guys in the league who will occasionally do a 300, and one guy who does it regularly. I always finish second to him. His cumulative total average is usually like 298- 299 (per target) and mine is maybe 296 - 297.

 

[Old Fuff]

280Plus:

Be aware that the stock Ruger hammer doesn't have a half-cock notch on it. If the trigger pull is set too far on the light light side and the sear bounces you may get double-firing or even a magazine load with one pull of the trigger. I don't know if you're set-up includes an aftermarket hammer or not. But if it does check to see if they're is anything to prevent the hammer from following down. Trigger pulls tend to wear in and get lighter. Too light can get you into trouble. I know. Been they're and done that .....

 

[280PLUS]

i must check into this sear guard...

bounty - it amazes me how many different types of shooting matches there are out there

i'm just becoming re-introduced to the sport and every time i turn around i find another style

did you catch the video clips of the IDPA (i think) shooters over at general discussion? i never seen that before either

sounds like you guys are doing some good shooting where you are too!

we do have other matches, one is called 1800 where you shoot 18 targets at 25 yards first 6 .22 , second 6 centerfire and third six .45 with the same time restraints as in the above at 50 ft.

or you can shoot it all .22 if you want but the 2nd and 3rd groups of targets dont count (?) i'm still not totally clear on that one

i'm planning on doing that .22 only for now when it opens up again

that one is nra sanctioned, our 50 ft league is not

and ...Fuff

so far so good, i put in th aftermarket sear and trigger both but not the mainspring

i recall only one notch on the sear...

i have had no misfires (so far) and i havent had any doubles or full autos so far either

if i lube it that may change so its good you mentioned it.

leastways i'll have a clue if it does

i'm still kind of nervous about messing up the trigger though,,,

 

[Old Fuff]

Being "a bit nervous" is a good idea. Over time the hammer notch/sear face will burnish and the trigger pull will become smoother and lighter. If the slide slamming into battery causes the hammer to bounce and the sear doesn't catch it the hammer will fall and probably the pistol will double-fire (or more). Ruger's pistol has few faults, but the lack of a half-cock notch or ledge to prevent the hammer from falling all the way is one of them. Considering how light you have the pull adjusted be very careful and always watch where the muzzle is pointed.

As an aside: Some years ago I was very active in bullseye shooting, and I always made a point of having the trigger pull on my .22 adjusted as close to 2 pounds as I could get it. On day while attending the National Matches at Camp Perry I got into a discussion about trigger pulls with a member of one of the top military teams. I showed him my .22 and pointed out what a wonderful trigger pull it had. He agreed, but then ask, "how are you're scores in the centerfire and .45 matches?" I had to admit they weren't close to what I was doing with the .22 pistol. He then suggested that I increase the pull on the .22 to at least 3 1/2 pounds.

I eventually did so. (The gunsmith thought I was nuts.) and my .22 scores fell. But in time those scores came back up, and as they did my centerfire and .45 scores did too. I was mentally concentrating on "feeling" the trigger rather then watching the sight picture - a big mistake. If you are doing things right the trigger break will come as a surprise and you'll never notice it. Consequently you won't flinch. If you apply an even pressure to the trigger the difference between 2 pounds vs. 3 1/2 pounds won't matter.

 

[bountyhunter]

He then suggested that I increase the pull on the .22 to at least 3 1/2 pounds. I eventually did so. (The gunsmith thought I was nuts.) and my .22 scores fell. But in time those scores came back up, and as they did my centerfire and .45 scores did too. I was mentally concentrating on "feeling" the trigger rather then watching the sight picture - a big mistake.

I did the opposite. Since my Ruger has a "natural" pull weight of about 2.3#, and my SW wheelguns have a 2.4# SA trigger pull after the comp trigger job, I just adjusted my 1911 for a 2.5# trigger. It's true you should be able to shoot equally well with a heavier trigger, but I have found in comp shooting when I get rushed, a lighter trigger means less gun muzzle movement when I pull a fast shot.

 

[bountyhunter]

I was mentally concentrating on "feeling" the trigger rather then watching the sight picture - a big mistake.

That's interesting because one of our best bullseye shooters told me the biggest mistake we make is watching the sights as we pull, because we tend to try to "snap" the trigger when the sights cross the dead center of the target... and a fast trigger pull will almost always rotate the gun slightly and cause a large error in POI He told me that the good shooters align the gun on sight and then ignore the sights as they concentrate 100% on executing the smooth trigger pull.

I tried it and my scores went way up. It amounts to winning the battle in the mind that the slight movement of the red dot will not move your shot out of the ten ring, so just ignore the dot once the gun is in position. A rushed trigger pull will yank the rounds all over the place. I never shot a perfect score until I started practicing and watching the dot as I fired and estimated where impact would be, and try to guess how many would be out in the "9" area. In almost all cases, I overestimated how far off it would be and in most cases I shot all ten inside the "10" ring even though I thought a couple would be out. Eventually, you become convinced that shooting perfect scores is actually doable as long as tigger pull is smooth, breathing is controlled, and concentration is maintained.

 

[Old Fuff]

Nope, I didn’t do that. As the Army Marksman Training Unit (AMTU) taught it you concentrate on keeping the sights aligned with each other with the eye(s) focused on the front sight. The target should blur and you maintain sight alignment while holding on the smallest area around the “fuzzy†bullseye that you can. The visual effect will be that the sights are stationary while the target is moving – exactly opposite from the truth.

While doing this you subconsciously apply pressure to the trigger until it breaks, and when it does – if you’re concentration has been on the sights – the break will be a surprise. That being the case you won’t flinch. If you exclusively shoot with ultra-light triggers that’s fine, so long as they are safe. But if you have to shoot a handgun with a heavier pull it may seem to be forever before it goes off. As a rule of thumb, if all of your guns have approximately the same weight of pull that’s probably good.

Jerking the trigger in an attempt to make the gun go off at the precise moment the sights are perfectly lined up with the bullseye never works. No matter how fast you pull the trigger that alignment will be lost by the time the cartridge goes off. Jerking the trigger makes things worse. The idea is to pull the trigger as fast as you can without disturbing the sights.

 

[280PLUS]

there was a computer aided study done somewhere, that tracked the poa during the entire shot sequence, the pattern developed looked a lot like a spirograph picture (dating myself)

any how, it showed that the average shooter is aimed directly at the center of the target about 95% of the time during the hold

so that, in fact, if you concentrate on a slow smooth trigger pull instead of the target or sights you will shoot better

this from last years nra state bullseye champ, he missed this years by a fraction of a point

that advice alone added an easy 10 points to my scores

i immediately started shooting better

last nite i shot another 100 in rapid during practice

 

[bountyhunter]

As the Army Marksman Training Unit (AMTU) taught it you concentrate on keeping the sights aligned with each other with the eye(s) focused on the front sight. The target should blur and you maintain sight alignment while holding on the smallest area around the “fuzzy†bullseye that you can.

That technique can not be used with a red-dot sighter. You must focus your eyes on the target and then float the dot onto the target, so you are actually target focused. One of the funny things is when somebody says their red-dot doesn't work because it's "blurry", and it's because they are focusing on the front lense. Through optics, the dot has a virtual focus point of around 20 yards distance out as viewed through the scope. At 25 yards, the dot looks sharp as long as you focus on the target. This is the secret to why they increase your scores: you are actually seeing both the sights and target in perfect focus.

 

[280PLUS]

quite true, but,,,

they also show your movement during the hold much more than iron sights do which can create a little chicken finger

i use a red dot cause my eyes aren't worth a poop anymore

regardless of which way you go concentrating on a nice smooth trigger pull instead of the position of the sights on the paper is the way to get them scores up

trust your hold and think trigger pull

"use the force, luke" is the way i look at it

in this case, the "force" being my confidence in my ability to hold center and faith in that computer study

or put another way, its allowing your innate abilities to take over and run the show without your mind stepping in and second guessing your abilities

autopilot maybe??

aw heck,,,

ok, maybe its a cheesy analogy,

just dont buy a cheap red dot, it aint worth the aggravation

i had to find that out the hard way, of course...

 

[bountyhunter]

they also show your movement during the hold much more than iron sights do which can create a little chicken finger

Amen. That's the part where you have to win the psychological battle and convince yourself that "dot rattle" isn't as bad as it looks. The dot also shows you immediately when you hosed a shot because the dot jumped when you pulled the trigger.

i use a red dot cause my eyes aren't worth a poop anymore

Exactly.

trust your hold and think trigger pull

autopilot maybe??

That's the point. If you have the gun on line, it isn't going anywhere while you pull the trigger as long as you execute a smooth pull.