Model 70 Project

[Barbs]

My father is trading me an unfired Model 70 Shadow .30-06 for a VX2 3-9x50 scope that I purchased from Promotive for $300 shipped (I have hunted with it several times). I really dislike the scope compared to my VX3 2.5-8x36 and was selling it when he offered to trade.

This rifle is the somewhat-older style with the "W" on the forend stock, and I am not a fan of factory polymer-stocked hunting rifles. For that reason, I am planning to turn it into a bit of a project HUNTING gun and want some opinions on my plan of action.

I plan to change the stock to a much nicer polymer-type stock (bedded), install a PTG two piece aluminum bottom metal assembly, and mount a Zeiss Conquest with Talley rings on it (can obtain for very, very cheap through various discount outlets and military affiliates), therefore utilizing the nice Model 70 action and allowing the stock to match the matte finish of the metal. I'd put a black Montana sling on it afterwards and lighten the trigger to top it off.

What are everyone's opinions on the amount of cash put into this rifle vs. the potential payoff of having a NICE synthetic rifle for hunting? I do not have a synthetic hunter as of yet, so this was my opportunity to justify putting a decent one together, but if the overhead is too high I would likely just abandon the idea.

One last thing: Do these rifles come marked with the "Shadow" identifier on the barrel? That could also be a turn off for me. Thanks.

 

[Robert]

How does the rifle shoot in its present configuration? Replacing the stock should help, and a better trigger can't really hurt. I guess the best thing to do is tally up the cost of the parts and go from there.

 

[Barbs]

Robert, it has never been shot. I do not have it yet, he will be bringing it down in September. It may very well shoot just fine, the factory stock gives me hives though :/. Oddly enough, this will be my first .30-06 (I have .308's, .270's, 7mm RM's, etc) so I am trying to make it somewhat functional AND sentimental. I dunno, I guess I'm just thinking out loud with no real direction haha.

 

[Robert]

I do that all the time. I would shoot it first, but a better stock can not hurt. At least if you shoot it first you have a benchmark from which to judge any improvements. I have been looking hard at a McMillan Express stock for my M70 Safari Express. The wood stock is fine, now, but I want something bomb proof. Thankfully I don't have the money at this time...

 

[Barbs]

That is very sound guidance. I have been liking the appearance and price of the Carbelite and Medalist stocks for quite some time and always wanted to try one, and have never owned a Zeiss but always wanted one. I was going to knock out two birds with one stone with this rifle (without spending an arm and a leg, or taking a beautiful walnut stock off of another rifle to replace it with the Carbelite/Medalist). I only recently got my first M70; I found a NIB Featherweight .270 a few weeks ago for $759 and couldn't pass it up since it was the first one I have found in store and the price was not horrible. I love the action, accuracy with my VX3 2.5-8x36, and build quality so I think I am hooked.

 

[Barbs]

-After selling several scopes, I believe I could get, conservatively, $300 out of the VX2 and high Leupy rings, so I theoretically "pay" $300 for the rifle
-The Medalist stock is the most expensive synthetic I would go for and retails around $250 right now on sale, estimate $20 for shipping/tax
-I can get the Zeiss cheaper than $399 and rings/mounts for around $50 using discounts and deals with free shipping and no tax
-The PTG bottom is $94, let's toss another $10 in for shipping/tax
-I will not list the sling in the price... not really necessary at this point

So, using my degree-in-mechanic-anical-engineering math skills, a NIB matte Model 70 action/barrel with a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 MC mounted with Zeiss or Talley mounts/rings, medalist olive/black stock with Pachmayr decelerator (with aluminum bedding block) comes to a grand total of $1,123, with $823 of that actually being spent, conservatively.

The price doesn't bother me... in fact I don't mind it at all. What DOES bother me is that this rifle could still have a "Shadow" stamp on it somewhere or perhaps the matte finish would give it away as a Gander Mountain special... So, going from there, any thoughts? Are there other Classic Model 70s out there with matte finishes that this rifle could be disguised as?

 

[jmr40]

The cheap factory stocks are very much under rated and get a lot of undeserved bashing on the internet. Most shoot just fine. This coming from a guy who has McMillans on most of my rifles. I've never noted enough difference in accuracy between the cheap plastic and high end stocks to justify the cost for that reason alone. If you do decide to replace the stock don't waste your money on the $200 stocks. The B&C stocks are MUCH heavier than what you have now and would not improve anything. Your current stock is about 32 oz. The B&C's run 36-40 oz, an Edge, 20-22 oz. Save your pennies and buy a McMillan Edge or other better quality stock. They are not that much more expensive, PM me if you're serious and I'll tell you the best way to purchase one.

I wouldn't waste my money on bottom metal. Just wasted money when the factory metal works just fine, The Edge stocks come with pillers installed.

Keep the VX-2. You'll never notice the difference between it and the Zeiss. VX-2's sell for $300 new and used mounts are almost worthless when you try to sell them. You won't get $300 for it used.

If it were mine I'd put a $500 McMillan on it, keep everything else as is and spend the rest on ammo. The money you save on unnecessary changes such as the bottom metal and scope will pay for a better stock and leave money over. Here is one of mine in an Edge, 7.5 lbs ready to hunt in any weather and accurate to boot.

 

[Skylerbone]

Had it not been for a rough ride over a Canadian beaver dam, I'd have kept the factory stock on mine. After sighting in, it punched a .471" 3-shot group at 100 yds. using a $150 Sightron S1 3-9X. Replaced the stock with a Microfit in walnut but haven't fired it since.

 

[Barbs]

Good stuff. The vx2 is actually being traded for the new rifle in question, so I won't be mounting it and need a new scope (comparable in clarity to the vx3s that I have been using, hence the Zeiss since I can get it cheaper than a Leupold). The Shadow model I am getting has a blind floor plate, so I need a blind replacement stock or new metal. And finally, the stock may be accurate as-is, but it is not very attractive to me and won't see any daylight with my other rifles unless I make a project gun out of it and replace the stock. I will take your advice and look into the nicer composites. Any more help is greatly appreciated.

 

[sage5907]

If you go with the McMillan stock keep the Model 70 bottom metal. McMillan will inlet the bottom of the stock for a perfect fit with the original bottom metal. Spend the extra money on the stock instead of the bottom metal.

 

[Barbs]

There is no bottom metal... it's a blind mag rifle

 

[Safwan]

Look again!

 

[Skylerbone]

It's nothing more than a trigger guard. The Shadow is a blind mag top loader.

 

[Barbs]

This is true.

 

[FiveInADime]

My Model 70 "Black Shadow" has bottom metal and a floor plate. Mine is a 7mag with a 26" barrel. The stock is flimsy but it shoots good enough for a hunting rifle and it's nice and light. I didn't know that there was such a thing as a M70 with a blind mag. When I was eighteen I picked out that rifle in the catalog and I thought the matte finish was cool. Only later did I come to appreciate good bluing, lol. Wish I would have asked for a Classic action featherweight.

Oh, and my trigger adjusted down to 3 pounds easily and safely. I love the old M70 triggers. Real easy to make a nice trigger out of.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Mine does have "Ultimate Shadow" on the barrel (newer version of the same rifle)...I don't see why that would matter, it didn't stop me from spending $2,000 building my rifle...that includes the cost of the rifle, and it is worth every penny.

It took over a year for me to get all the stuff...scope, stock, time and tools to do the bedding.







The rifle brand new...as it came out of the box.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

If you go with the McMillan stock keep the Model 70 bottom metal. McMillan will inlet the bottom of the stock for a perfect fit with the original bottom metal. Spend the extra money on the stock instead of the bottom metal.

Its not always a prefect fit...mine wasn't...I had to work on the bottom metal a little bit to get the fit right...it wasn't real bad, but it wasn't prefect...it is now...the stock was milled correctly, its the bottom metal that was "off"...mine is thicker than most for some reason, or...at least it was.

The inletting in the stock wasn't perfect either...the action sat too high in the stock, not much, but enough...McMillan stocks are awesome, but often do require some minor fitting....and they are best when bedded.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

Keep the VX-2. You'll never notice the difference between it and the Zeiss. VX-2's sell for $300 new and used mounts are almost worthless when you try to sell them. You won't get $300 for it used.

ill second that advice. the two conquests i have are good scopes but no better then my newer vx2s are and selling that scope used youll be lucky to get 250 probably closer to 200 considering the newest vx1 is the same scope as last years vx2 and can be bought new for 210. Used mounts are usualy given away with a scope and theres not much demand for high mounts.

 

[Skylerbone]

Good stuff. The vx2 is actually being traded for the new rifle in question, so I won't be mounting it and need a new scope

For those who missed it.

 

[sage5907]

I'm surprised Winchester ever made a Model 70 with a blind magazine box. That one point would make me take a second look at whether or not I did the project. I think the first thing I would do would be to buy a used magazine box from eBay and see if it would slip into the magazine box recess on the bottom of the receiver. Several years ago I was working on a friends late model rifle that had a detatchable box magazine (DBM) and it had a whole different set-up on the bottom of the receiver.

 

[Skylerbone]

Nearly every aftermarket stock available to the Model 70 is cut for a hinged floor plate or (often) proprietary DBM. Even the Microfit I ordered, with specific instructions, was not properly inletted and additional cutting was required. Far easier to find a walnut take off and bottom metal unless of course the owner prefers to spend a bit more for a composite.

 

[sage5907]

Skylerbone, my concern was whether or not the bottom of the receiver was the same on a late model rifle that had a blind magazine box as to one that had a hinged floor plate. I'm used to looking at the magazine box on a Pre 64 Model 70 where the magazine box is flat on the top and fits solidly against the bottom of the receiver. I've noticed the newer boxes have a lip on each side that catches the follower and fits up inside the receiver. The question, is the receiver the same for rifles with the hinged floor plate, the detachable box magazine and the blind magazine? Quite different components.

 

[CB900F]

Barbs;

I'll add my vote to the McMillan list, I've got an older one on a .30-06 & punched an antelope with it at 470 lazed yards. I'll also vote for the Zeiss Conquest, though mine are the 3.5-10X MC44 with the #43 (mil-dot) reticle, but they're in Talley rings alright.

Take a good look at Turner Saddlery for a sling: triple w turnersling dot com. Good luck on your project.

Oh, and I presume you handload. With an ought-6 usually some variation of: 58-60 grains of IMR4350, Winchester brass, CCI primer, a good 150 grain bullet and playing with the seating depth & charge weight will get you a very fine shooting load. By a good 150 grain bullet I don't mean some over-priced marketing hype bullet either. Stick to the Speer, Hornady, or Sierra everyday bullets & you'll be fine.

900F

 

[USSR]

The receiver magazine opening is the same whether the rifle originally came with a blind magazine or not. Simply get a magazine box, magazine spring, follower, and bottom metal and you are all set.

Don

 

[sage5907]

ussr, thanks for the info.