Modern Scenarios When a Sword Would Be Preferable to a Firearm
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sacp81170a
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Biker
That's from an even draw. My old kendo sensei could cross the dojo and hit you over the head (men) before you could even move. Remember the angles and ranges involved. Iai practitioners practice nukitsuke (cutting on the draw) over and over and over. One of the ways we overcome cramped quarters on the draw is saya biki, or manipulating the scabbard so that you are partially drawing the sword as well as pulling the scabbard off of it. Morote tsuki from seitei iai is one technique that would be particularly appropriate. By slightly altering the angle of the nukitsuke (drawing cut), you could cut the angle the gunman would be using to draw his weapon.
Iai techniques are intended to give the swordsman an advantage by minimizing the time required to get the first cut in. With no good way to stop the cut, a gunman has less than an even chance to survive. Fortunately, skilled swordsmen are few and far between these days.
That said, if I were confronted with a sword-wielding opponent, my strategy would be to draw and shoot him before he had an opportunity to get his sword out. Then I would claim self-defense because I have accurate knowledge of how quickly a blade can be put to use and how deadly it can be. It's damn hard to block a bullet with your sword.
Your point about gun in hand is well taken, and history bears out the advantage of firearms.Firearms were strictly controlled in feudal Japan primarily because any peasant could learn how to kill effectively in a very short period of time, as opposed to the years of training required to become a skilled swordsman. This threatened the special status of the samurai and could not be tolerated. Oda Nobunaga was despised for his use of peasant conscripts and firearms in his military campaigns. The advantage, even with matchlocks, was with the guns.
Yes. If drawing from concealment in the situation you describe, I imagine I'd get cut open from rectum to appetite. Speaking from experience, I don't look good in red.
And yes, Nobunaga's matchlock-armed ashigaru nearly helped him complete his conquest.
Biker
And yes, Nobunaga's matchlock-armed ashigaru nearly helped him complete his conquest.
Biker
ctdonath
Member
silverlance
Member
well
i have a sig p228 in a mini gunvault. it's loaded, not chambered (i'm of two minds about that part), and under the bed where it's very quickly accessible.
but i have about 14 sword sets scattered about the house between my roommate and i, katanas and wakasashis sitting on nice stands, and in my room i have 1 katana, 1 single piece short sword with no handguard, 1 wakasashi, 1 tanto, 1 m1 bayonet, and 3 folding knives.
they're all tastefully arranged.
now it's true, if i see a bg coming, i'll lock and load, but what if i look up from the blinding glare of my monitor on THR and there's a crazy mofo in the doorway?
id probably yank out the ranger shortsword (the one with no hilt, just a single piece of black steel with a rope hilt, 21 inch blade, bought it for ten bucks off CTD) and charge him, trying to shove him out the door so I can lock it and get my gun. or just gut him. that's if my dog doesnt do it for me first (hes always right next to me).
ps: don't laugh at the mallninja CTD cheapie sword. I have 1200$ katanas and i still keep this one next to me because it's fast, agile, and effective. it lies right next to the keyboard unsheatedin a little groove and id much rather keep this lying out than my p228. too much risk of theft, misuse, etc... and general pain in the ass to have to lock it away each time i leave the room or the house.
course if i lived in a CCW state or in kern county id carry all the time, and look at my swords fondly....
i have a sig p228 in a mini gunvault. it's loaded, not chambered (i'm of two minds about that part), and under the bed where it's very quickly accessible.
but i have about 14 sword sets scattered about the house between my roommate and i, katanas and wakasashis sitting on nice stands, and in my room i have 1 katana, 1 single piece short sword with no handguard, 1 wakasashi, 1 tanto, 1 m1 bayonet, and 3 folding knives.
they're all tastefully arranged.
now it's true, if i see a bg coming, i'll lock and load, but what if i look up from the blinding glare of my monitor on THR and there's a crazy mofo in the doorway?
id probably yank out the ranger shortsword (the one with no hilt, just a single piece of black steel with a rope hilt, 21 inch blade, bought it for ten bucks off CTD) and charge him, trying to shove him out the door so I can lock it and get my gun. or just gut him. that's if my dog doesnt do it for me first (hes always right next to me).
ps: don't laugh at the mallninja CTD cheapie sword. I have 1200$ katanas and i still keep this one next to me because it's fast, agile, and effective. it lies right next to the keyboard unsheatedin a little groove and id much rather keep this lying out than my p228. too much risk of theft, misuse, etc... and general pain in the ass to have to lock it away each time i leave the room or the house.
course if i lived in a CCW state or in kern county id carry all the time, and look at my swords fondly....
sacp81170a
Member
ctdonath
Interesting read. Your conclusions match what I have observed from watching and practicing with both master swordsmen and top level IPSC competitors. Given that many of the myths of the "stopping power" of handguns have been debunked on this forum, I'd rather be the guy with the sword than the guy with the gun.
Past four or five steps, and the gunman *might* be able to evade long enough to survive. That 10 yards I was talking about stems from my practice in muso-shinden ryu. Many of our forms include techniques to chase down a fleeing opponent and cut him down from behind. Another complication is that we don't necessarily perform the nukitsuke on the first step. If the gunman didn't react right away, the swordsman would have two or three steps covered before he even made the motion to draw. Solution: shoot the bastard before he can get any closer.
Interesting read. Your conclusions match what I have observed from watching and practicing with both master swordsmen and top level IPSC competitors. Given that many of the myths of the "stopping power" of handguns have been debunked on this forum, I'd rather be the guy with the sword than the guy with the gun.
Past four or five steps, and the gunman *might* be able to evade long enough to survive. That 10 yards I was talking about stems from my practice in muso-shinden ryu. Many of our forms include techniques to chase down a fleeing opponent and cut him down from behind. Another complication is that we don't necessarily perform the nukitsuke on the first step. If the gunman didn't react right away, the swordsman would have two or three steps covered before he even made the motion to draw. Solution: shoot the bastard before he can get any closer.
Costume Party
Post-Apocalyptic zombie attack
Walking the Glory Road
Not much else. Even in Musashi's day, guns were preferable in some situations. With modern actions, ammo proliferation and concealability, gus beat swords just about every way. Besides, a good sword costs way more than a good gun.
Post-Apocalyptic zombie attack
Walking the Glory Road
Not much else. Even in Musashi's day, guns were preferable in some situations. With modern actions, ammo proliferation and concealability, gus beat swords just about every way. Besides, a good sword costs way more than a good gun.
B
boofus
Guest
If I had to mow the lawn and trim the hedges I would prefer a sword to a gun. Unless the ammo is free. Then I would do your yardwork with a gun for free.
sacp81170a
Member
Interesting observation. Musashi himself in his later years sometimes used wooden implements instead of steel for sword combat. The prevailing opinion among master swordsmen is that wood is easier to obtain, cheaper and less prone to failure through faulty maintenance. Once a certain level of skill is obtained, it doesn't matter if the swordsman is using a sword or a stick. Case in point: Tesshu.
An interesting aside, a couple of years ago just after 9/11/01, I flew from NWA regional airport through Houston and on to Las Vegas for Comdex with a cane. Security folks ran it through the x-ray machine and some of the stewardesses wanted me to put it in the overhead baggage compartment, but NOT ONE questioned my possesion of it when I affected a slight limp and claimed bone spurs in my heel. If they had known how much more effective a cane is than a knife at close quarters, they would have wet themselves.
Sword training can come in handy, after all.
ctdonath
Member
I've been the, er, subject for cane fighting demonstrations several times. Trust me, you don't want to be on the wrong side of a cane in a fight.
I've taken a couple travelling. Gets thru security & on board & everywhere else no problem.
The one issue I _have_ encountered is: people who know you get kinda screwy when they see you with a cane and know you don't need it. Probing questions, insults, unspoken concerns (both about your physical and mental condition), etc. - does have an effect. Unless you can make it cool/fashionable/necessary, there's a wierd psychological barrier.
I've taken a couple travelling. Gets thru security & on board & everywhere else no problem.
The one issue I _have_ encountered is: people who know you get kinda screwy when they see you with a cane and know you don't need it. Probing questions, insults, unspoken concerns (both about your physical and mental condition), etc. - does have an effect. Unless you can make it cool/fashionable/necessary, there's a wierd psychological barrier.
thorn726
Member
odd reasoning-
so i have a sword i made myself form a flat steel bar.
first off , we have these reasons-
the legality isnt so bad here, but once i got outside, and i occasionally do a late night pass around my building, too many thieves.
there's a lot of assumption that most of you wouldnt take here= as in i am assuming 99.99% of the thieves that are dumb enough to be robbing cars in my lot would not have anything greater than a small knife.
2 bit thieves are too cracked out to keep a gun, they trade them for drugs, and are always being searched by cops.
a big risk , i know./ i should probably pack a BUG in my pocket
anyway, on my landlord's property but outside my apt, sword is all that is legal.
INSIDE= now you all might laugh at this, but my worst case, a break in=
grab sword, holding with right (weak) hand , flat blade diagonal in a weak attempt to cover my heart (its pretty thick steel).
id still want the gun, but if intruder is unarmed, i can use sword and just pocket the gun. if intruder was armed, i got something covering my vitals, barely, but better than nothing.
so i have a sword i made myself form a flat steel bar.
first off , we have these reasons-
the legality isnt so bad here, but once i got outside, and i occasionally do a late night pass around my building, too many thieves.
there's a lot of assumption that most of you wouldnt take here= as in i am assuming 99.99% of the thieves that are dumb enough to be robbing cars in my lot would not have anything greater than a small knife.
2 bit thieves are too cracked out to keep a gun, they trade them for drugs, and are always being searched by cops.
a big risk , i know./ i should probably pack a BUG in my pocket
anyway, on my landlord's property but outside my apt, sword is all that is legal.
INSIDE= now you all might laugh at this, but my worst case, a break in=
grab sword, holding with right (weak) hand , flat blade diagonal in a weak attempt to cover my heart (its pretty thick steel).
id still want the gun, but if intruder is unarmed, i can use sword and just pocket the gun. if intruder was armed, i got something covering my vitals, barely, but better than nothing.
Lupinus
Member
It's a five page thread, no I havn't read all of it.
But to the origional question of when a sword would be better then a gun?
Good question.
Maybe cutting your ham sandwhich in half after your gun scares the crap out of the little thug that broke into your house.
But to the origional question of when a sword would be better then a gun?
Good question.
Maybe cutting your ham sandwhich in half after your gun scares the crap out of the little thug that broke into your house.
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