Modern Scenarios When a Sword Would Be Preferable to a Firearm

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Are we talking ASSAULT SWORDS? If so I'd be very careful how I used them because the Government won't like them and will probably ban them or at the very least make you register them


NEVER BRING A SWORD TO A GUNFIGHT
 
When is a sword preferable to a gun? When I have ABSOLUTELY no ammo left in the gun. As for scenarios have you ever see night of the living dead?
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Ok I will bite.


An intruder bursts into my office (home office) armed in a knife, while I am browsing THR forums.

My wife in her usual way has been "tidying" that day (tidying is defined by hiding all the things that I find most useful and need to have about at all times) and she has removed my handgun from the office.

I :D and grab the katana, which I purchased while I lived in Japan, that is resting against the edge of my desk.

Flashes of Miyamoto Musashi flash through my mind (you know Musashi is on TV everyday in Japan).

I set to cutting the intruder into as many small pieces that I can manage.

Regards,
HS/LD
 
If someone slaps you in the face with his chamois gloves and challenges you to swords at dawn, you better be able to back it up.
 
There was a guy on TFL asking about concealed carry of swords. Seems that in Austria where he lives, carrying guns is a no no, but open or concealed carry of swords is OK.
 
Well guys until I was 50 or so I was convinced that under 6 feet a sword would be just as deadly as any gun for me. Now, no friggin way, age is the great leveler, all that training and strength of the young lion gets put into reality. I think a young practitioner of the art is real deadly under 6 feet with a katana or equivalent. Cut in half,beheaded or split apart is as fast as any bullet IMHO.:eek:
 
This has already been said. The only time a sword is preferable to a gun is if you run out of ammo.

A sword is a rather clumsy weapon. Drawing a sword out of a sheath takes much more time than drawing a gun out of a holster.

Don't being a sword to a gun fight.
 
Nothing wrong with a sword, I guess, but why? Really? If you're down to using an edged weapon over a firearm, you're in deep crap, anyway. I handgun conceals better than a sword, too.

Dead is dead, of course, but there is a reason why firearms are now used in warfare and swords are not.
 
I'm an 11C. Theoretically, my fellow mortarmen and I have an issued machete in each squad, so we can clear brush or grass out of the way if we have to run poles.

We have not been issued our machete.

I carry a kukri instead of an e-tool, as everyone else already has an e-tool, and the kukri works to clear light brush or heavy brush.

I hope I'm never down to using my kukri (it's about 21" long) in defense. First we have the mortars, then we have our rifles (we're already in trouble at that point), then the gunners have M9's, then we're in deep, deep kimchee.
 
Back to the topic...

...and in all seriousness --

I think that at almost any range that a sword would be effective, there's a better alternative these days: pepper spray.

I realize it's not potentially as lethal, but deployed properly it does buy you time to get away. And it's a good step up from hand-to-hand on the escalation scale.

Besides, I'm under the impression that cops don't like knives.:uhoh:
 
An umbrella where you hit a button and out pops a blade from the top, and then stab the guy. I dont know any scenarios for that but i think its kind of neat.
 
When i was a kid, about 13+ years old, me and my best buddy would go hiking way back in the hills behind Whittier, near Los Angeles. We used to get pretty far into the thick of it and even though we carried hunting type knives, we found we needed machettes. They "worked", but ate up alot of energy, and really weren't that efficient. We got into snorkeling and spearfishing with full wetsuits and of course diving knives, and found the diving knives also worked quite well when hiking in the boonies as we could hack a small tree down if needed. We eventually got into going to Catalina Island without "parental guidance" and hacked out our own special little illegal campsite right in Wrigley's back yard just up the hill from "Lovers Cove" where the glass bottom boat goes. We would spear large fish for food and get some pretty healthy abalone too. We did quite well for a couple of 15 year-olds. Needless to say, it was all quite "knife intensive" and so we became VERY serious about our knives... particularly our diving knives. Eventually my buddy got his hands on a old civil war bayonet/short sword with a blade about 20 inches long. This baby came in pretty handy, but little did we know how handy it would come in. At the far north end of the Island the terrain is extremely rugged, some of the most rugged i have ever hiked, and covered with huge patches of cactus. Many of these cactus patches had trails going right through the middle of them which the wild spanish goats would use. The goats would knock of sections of cactus into the middle of the trail making the trails very difficult to hike. The trails themselves were already extremely tight with cactus growing across the trails blocking them, and we had to hike like a ballerinas on a seriously booby trapped trail. There was zero room for mistakes. If you lost your balance and fell in the cactus, you were screwwwwwed. This is where that sword came in REALLY handy. We found we could make short accurate little chops on the cactus blocking the trail, stick it with the tip of the sword, and fling them out of the way. This was not something we could do with the machettes, and could only do on a limited basis with the diving knives. The machettes didn't have pointy tips, and the diving knives were too short, although they where better than nothing.

These experiences and more taught me that there is a place for at least short swords for modern day use. We also took alot of martial arts classes together and studied quite a bit of sword. All this made me want to have a "hiking sword" so every time i went to a gun show i would aways check out all the swords, looking for that one with "my name" on it. I found one that really seemed to scream at me. Al Mar's double edged "Pathfinder" short sword. 14" x 2.5" x 3/16ths" blade, 19.5" over all length, hollow ground edge, stabbing point, and wickedly sharp. Everyone who sees it calls it "The Knife". Eventually i move up to Washington State where i start getting into hunting elk in the rain forest. Of course i have to take The Knife.

The Knife has seen more use than i ever imagined. Having it with me and so being able to use it, it has literally...saved-my-life... and more than a few times too. Wet, cold, hypothermic, and losing the trail with glasses fogged up from trying to hump it out of the rain forest as it gets dark, The Knife comes out to make a trail. Hack hack, step, hack hack hack, step... until i finally got out to a trail i could follow and back to the camp to warm up by the fire.

One time i got myself surrounded by blackberry bushes at night trying to find a "short cut" (yeah, right... oooops!). I found that i could cut down small trees about 6-8" thick and about 20 feet tall and drop them on top of the blackberry bushes and walk down the tree until i got to the next tree, cut that down, walk down it, etc... until i got out. Got hung up several times by the stickery vines, but it still worked great.

Another time it was pretty comforting having The Knife when i found myself in the middle of a bears clear warning sign marked territory in the Cascades while bow hunting elk. Now i did have my G20 with me... but somehow having The Knife... and my hand on The Knife... made me feel like i had a little better chance with The Knife, than the gun.

I never do any serious hiking without it.
 
Thanks Brooks,

That's the kind of input I have been looking for.

I never meant to suggest that the sword was the do all end all sidearm of choice. Just another tool that might be preferable to a handgun in certain siutations.

Some of you have suggested that it is difficult to conceal a sword. I agree and have not considered it for such scenarios.

The sword is like any other weapon or tool. It gives you options that may or may not be applicable to the situation at hand. Admittedly the sword has a much more narrow field of employment, but within its range it dominates or provides a better alternative to most options when projectile weapons are not available.

In the past it has been discussed on TFL and other places about how formidable a BG with a knife can be within 7 yards against a firearm. The Teuler Drill, which simulates this scenaro, is considered to be a major training exercise for many firearms shools like Lethal Force Institute (LFI). The principle is simple. An opponent with a knife can be on top of you in 1.5 seconds from a distance of 7 yards.

If these firearms trainers feel today's typical knife with a 2 to 8 inch blade is a threat to a trained gunman within 7 yards what makes you think the sword with a 18 to 36 inch blade isn't?

Remember, knives cut flesh while swords cut deeper and can take limbs off. The leverage afforded by the additional length in the blade can be devastating in trained hands.

Personally, I think Brooks hit it on the head with something in the range of a machette sized sword with a 20 inch blade is about right for a combination tool and weapon in today's world. This gives you a blade that is easy to carry openly, can be defended as a tool or machette if you are going outdoors, enough length to take advantage of the sword's additional leverage, and yet keeps it compact enough to be useful at extreme close quarters. This last point becomes very clear when you start sparring and realize how much more maneuverable a short blade is when up close and personal.

As for "dead is dead" I'd much rather take a few BGs with me if things became that desperate. Who knows, I might just pick up a gun along the way, get back in the gunfight, and survive.

A sword is an option...nothing more.

Staying in the fight at any cost is the objective for when you stop fighting you will surely lose.

- Anthony
 
Swords are good if you are facing a knife fighter down a hallway.

Pretty much useless against determined people with guns.

Think Japanese officers/NCOs in WWII. Didn't do well against US Marines did they? Is there even documentation of any marines who were hurt during combat by a sword?

Anthony, swords are great to learn for mind & physical discipline. Suggest you stick to the "daga" part of FMA for practical training.
 
Drawing a sword out of a sheath takes much more time than drawing a gun out of a holster.

Not true, at least if you've practiced. I've timed myself with both, and can actually draw and strike with a sword marginally faster. Details here.

Of note in comparing the two is that the gun has a linear area of effect, while the sword has a planar area of effect. A gun has a longer range, but the sword generally does more damage within range. At room-sized distances, distance is less of an issue; most attacks are within sword range. Just don't hit the wall or ceiling while swinging the sword.
 
Pretty much useless against determined people with guns.

The key word is "determined", not "gun".

Reminds me of a highly trained knife fighter who does not carry a knife, explaining that if he needs a knife he'll just take the attacker's.
 
CWL,

I think the charging part had more to do with it than what they were armed with!

I don't mean to give the impression that I think swords are useless. At very close range, long blades are the most dangerous weapon one can wield. Getting into that perfect range may be the problem.

Good to see you, Carl.

John
 
Although it's fun to fantasize about being Stryder in Lord of the Rings, there isn't a practical scenario I can come up with.
 
I guess if you try hard you can imagine one.

But most people have a flawed concept of what swords are like and what swords can do to somebody.

A genuine Japanese Katana is a much deadlier weapon than any handgun IF you can bring it into action before you take a bullet. Assuming proper skill level and a genuine carbon steel Katana made to authentic specs, you can literally bisect a person's torso with a single cut. Removing arms/legs/etc. is trivial with the right blade and the right technique. Of course, that takes lots of training, and you still have the disadvantage of having to close the distance to your enemy while he hits you with .45 slugs from 25 yards out.
 
Yes, yes, a sword can do incredible damage and it doesn't run out of ammunition BUT there is a reason why swords aren't used in modern warfare.

The original question of "Modern Scenarios When a Sword Would Be Preferable to a Firearm" is pretty much answered, I think. I'm sure that there are some but, overall, no one can really think of one.

Swords are great weapons and have their place IN HISTORY. There really aren't any modern scenarios where I wouldn't take a sword over a firearm, though. Imagine an entry team storming a crack house with drawn swords instead of shotguns, submachineguns and M16-pattern long guns while their team crossbowman covers them instead of a sniper with a 1/2 MOA rifle.

A handgun conceals better than a sword and is a better weapon for the vast majority of the population. It really isn't as deadly in the long run, but the reason that swords aren't used in modern combat is because firearms are easier to use and have a greater range. We don't HAVE to fight in hand-to-hand combat unless forced.
 
Of course, that takes lots of training, and you still have the disadvantage of having to close the distance to your enemy while he hits you with .45 slugs from 25 yards out.

Yeah, I think I made that pretty clear in my post. :p
 
I posted in the beginning of thread : a katana(or equivalent) in the strong trained hands of an operator at 6 feet or less. The rebuttal was a speed of presentation issue which if you have studied the art is a non issue as you are swinging to cut as you draw sword properly. A "realistic scenario" to me would be some schmuck holdin you up with a pistol at about 4 to 6 feet out as you sidestep explosively the sword is whirling toward him and will cut thru what ever is in its way. And the follow thru should begin the slicing and dicing process to completion. I think a shorter sword would do the same in less than 3 feet. You might get shot but he will be hamburger unless he gets REAl lucky with CNS disconnect .:cool:
 
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