Molon Labe? Gimme a break.

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I saw that at least one poster is in MA. It's all too common on these threads for folks to fantasize about their heroics in some doomsday scenario with clear rules of engagement. Us vs. JBT. Such exercises are not as demanding as the day-to-day grind of trying to prevent erosion of our rights. Let us know what you find out about your senator.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95561
 
In the boonies

Hillbilly:

Perhaps the best quote I ever read about how to tell if it is "throw down" time or not went something like this.

"The next time you think it's time to start the next American revolution, run out on your front porch with your gun. If you can't see any neighbors who've also run out on their front porches with their guns, then it's not time yet. "

Well, out here in the Ozarks, the only person who might see me running out onto my porch with a gun would be a tresspasser.

Shoot I shoot him? Or ask him if it is finally time for the great American 2nd revolution? In thinking about this, should I ask him to take his ski mask off first? < big grin >
 
The ballot box is more effective than the ammo box. If as much effort were expended politically to salvage the BoR as we, it appears, are willing to give to mortally fight each other, the fight would never happen. But it is doubtfull the political effort will happen as we are mostly not willing to get informed, work at it, and or actually put up and vote for actual patriots over shiny pant suit wearers more interested in re election and lining their pocket with the grease from the pork they feed their constituents.

The blood has been shed, people, for the system we call a Constitutional Republic with representative government. The key is using it and honoring those that have given life and limb to create and preserve it.

Besides, what Thumper said about who'd be in my fighting hole with me. He'd probably be in bod's or wearing a badge takin' care of the JBT that were left over, and I don't think there would be too many to worry about.

In my county there are several hundred armed Americans to each LEO in the first place, not that there would be, as Thumper said, too many LEO's on the wrong side of that fight.

grampster
 
Cosmoline,

If it is'nt about the guns, how come we are going to have a collective orgasm when the AWB sunsets? So you'd be OK with just one then? Maybe a single shot .22?


;)

Thanks for the mental exercise, I enjoyed the debate. While I think that some of the ideas expressed here are borderline whackoreactionary, as the proud owner of nothing but evil assault weapons and guns with absolutely no sporting use, I would certainly defend your right to have whatever you can handle responsibly. I just think we are a long long way from the ovens, so to speak.
 
The AWB has become a central symbol of a great "soccer mom" anti gun victory. So as such I'll celebrate it's death. Plus, I miss new high caps. The AWB's greatest direct impact has been to refocus handguns from high capacity to big bore, and I expect to see things swing back to high capacity once the ban is gone. Thirty or forty round tripple stacks maybe :D Or at least some high cap .22LR mags with loading devices so my poor hands don't get CTS.
 
Cajuncuna, quote "Before pointing to Nazis or Fascists to tell me why I'm crazy for not buying into this philosophy, please recall that both of these dictatorships leveraged horrible atrocities on their people. These violations are exactly the sort of thing that should meet with armed resistance."

And which, pray tell, came first? Evil Nazi's or gun control. I'll give you a hint. Gun control imposed in the Weimar Republic set the stage for the evil Nazis to disarm the citizenry and commit their atrocities unopposed. Si?

So what "Monol Labe" really means is, we don't really want to wait for an evil dictator BEFORE we fight for our gun rights. We need to keep our guns to meet the rise of Dictatorship.

I don't pretend to say that I have the courage to do so, but I DO buy into the idea that anyone who wants to disarm you wants to leave you defenseless to Tyranny and therefore IS THE ENEMY.
 
Revolutions don't have to become big bloody fiascos. Most of them do because everybody wants to get their licks in. A revolution can be as small as one person killed. When the leaders fall several followers loose heart for the enterprise. Indescriminate killing is never the answer. Target aquisition is the really important factor.
 
Could we have a Tom Diaz in disguise here?? Hmmmmmmmmm.......
Stranger things have happened
Also the "vote from the rooftops" shirt actually has another entire phrase on it ! Amazingly it is almost always overlooked by the average Hoplophobe
Here is the missing phrase in type and also in a picture for the reading impaired. Dang that Molon Labe hat is in the pic too.
When all else fails vote from the rooftops

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My questions are rhetorical questions designed to provoke thought, not your gastric juices. After countless discussion of TEOTWAWKI, black helos, JBTs, voting from the rooftops, Wolverines!, ad naseum, why does the antithesis of all these equally outlandish and unlikely scenarios provoke such vitriol?

Because it is an exercise in Reductio ad Absurdum. You are attempting to pass off a logical fallacy as a thought provoking rhetorical question, as opposed to just indulging in a Rambo fantasy.

[quote These are'nt silly games? Bottom line, are'nt most shooting sports just games played with guns?

I've seen enough, and dealt enough, violence that I have realized that it is a treatment, not a solution. I've never met a combat vet who did'nt value peace as a goal.
Well, at least there's one thing we can agree on. :)
 
There's a lot of ways to deny a gungrabber their goal. Lot's of legal ways.

Capping a cop on your doorstep out of hand should be reprehensible to all of us.

If you or your family are under threat of imminent harm to life and limb, you of course do what needs doing, one supposes.
 
Federalist papers write about this

Cosmoline wrote:
But as several explained here, the RKBA isn't about guns. It's about government power. A firearm in and of itself is just a tool. But a government coming to seize that firearm is a terrible threat.

From Federalist Paper #46, discussing the influence of the Federal gov't compared to State gov't :
[Suppose] a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops.

(I've replaced the original "Let" with "Suppose" as the first word, because the context makes it clear that it's an exercise of the form "Let a=5, etc., etc.")

That snippet was preceded by a short premise, roughly paraphrased: "Suppose the people did somehow elect a traitorous government for enough years and just stood by and watched the traitors pursue an evil agenda (the specific evil mentioned in the paper was an military that was too strong)..."

Federalist Paper #46 made it more clear to me than I've ever seen anywhere else that the author (and presumably his peers) draws a very clear distinction between "the militia" and "the army", specifying that the army is under federal control and the militia would be the armed citizens who need to restrain the army from overreaching.
 
VICK

I think you have figured out exactly what is happening. One childs mindset at a time. These children are sent to school to learn. What are they learning? Fear of guns. If they are even a little active in school they call the parents to put them on Ritalin.

Before I retired, all the ladies I worked with had children on Ritalin. They all said it was wonderful they didn't have to fight with them at home. It calmed them down. Well, I always thought any mind altering drug was dangerous. Why would so many children need drugs. My husband said he was very hyper in school. They would put a circle on the blackboard and he would have to stand on his toes till he said he would behave. Soon he was all calmed down. Teachers in the old days knew what to do to keep a class of 40 kids calm with one teacher per class room and no assistants.

Heaven forbid, but when he went to school they all had pocket knives. During recess they played mumbly peg with the teachers watching. What has happened? Now they play Sally has two mommies. These children are learning things we as parents would never teach them. As time goes by the younger generation will not even have guns. They will all be P.C.

There are some who are home schooling, these will be the ones who will keep our country strong. These are the ones who will not give up their guns. The only way to keep this a free country is to have guns in every household. I don't believe they will come after the guns in my lifetime. But I think they will try by the time my Granddaughter is grown. We need to visit our childrens schools and sit in on the classes and find out just what they are teaching. I always read my son's school books and checked with his teachers to see what they were teaching him. I don't believe that happens anymore. We want to keep our children willing to fight for their rights. I don't mean by shooting anyone, I mean through the NRA. Voting is important. Don't vote for anyone you think will take away your rights. I keep thinking about the Clintons and how they almost closed down several gun manufacturers and distrubutors. Now that is SCARY.


Mrs. Toro


__________________________________________________________
Mark 8:36to38
"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels."
 
On my local news last night, a high school student that makes good grades was suspended, and will likely be expelled. Why? He tossed his little brother's toy gun in the back seat of the car. Someone saw him do that, and called the school. (I think this was in Illionois)

Even his own mother said 'He had so much going for him, and now he threw it all away'.

It's a toy gun people! He didn't break a law!!! Yet, he is about to be expelled from school, and have his whole life ruined (in theory) over a T.O.Y.
If I took a GI Joe to school, it might be taken away from me, but Expelled? Over a toy? ***, over?

It's about control. It's about generating fear in order to get that control. Look at how they're saying Terrorists will be able to get Assault Weapons after the ban. Uh...last I checked Terrorists all ready had what we would call NFA assault weapons.

The simple fact that we compromise means they're winning.

As far as the whole violence-free Utopia versus TEOTWAWKI: It's better to have a gun and not need it...
 
What's amazing, is this has actually HAPPENED. In CA, Robinson Arms M96 rifles were (briefly) confiscated, I belive on a voulentary basis. (they were eventually deemed 'legal' and returned, whopee.)

This is a very real question. What if they came knocking, just for your SKS? You could keep the rest, at least this week?

Is it too much for me to draw the line at the forced confiscation of ONE firearm? Because that is how it will come. Would I be out of hand in shooting that cop if he were to put a gun to my head and my wife's head and order us to surrender just one gun?

I say, no. I too have taken an oath to defend with my life the constitution of the United States with my life, against all enemies both forign and domestic.

And the very second that "Barney Fife" rings my doorbel with his hand on his revolver, to take my one gun or shoot me or lock me up (as that will ultimately be the case), he has become the sherrif no longer. He is now a domestic enemy and I will deal with him acordingly.

Those are my feelings on the matter.
 
Meaning that -- if laws were passed next week -- you would feel compelled by principle to take a shot at an LEO coming to your house to enforce the law. Or that you would participate in lethal resistance against our armed forces. Come and Get Them.
Die on your feet, or live on your knees. Your choice.
 
And it is a little dramatic. Do people honestly believe that some day G-men are gonna fast rope out of Blackhawks for our guns?

No, if it should ever come to that they will do precisely what the British did during the Revolutionary War. They will hire foreign mercenaries* who have no compunction whatsoever about firing on American citizens with arms. Given the level of rampant anti-Americanism in the world - and Europe in particular, I don't anticipate that they would have any problem finding willing recruits. In fact the application lines would probably make the tryouts for American Idol seem like a small town Boy Scout jamboree by comparison.



*The Democrats asking the United Nations to "monitor" the upcoming Presidential election (their usual "Bush stole it" whine) shows that they already have the mindset of seeking foreign help with what they perceive to be domestic problems. :fire:
 
Blah blah blah blah...they already have confiscated guns in Chicago, NY, NJ....but thats OK...aint YOUR guns are they...nope dont see the true patriots rising up and fighting the gubmint....

Come and get them you JBTs...as long as you come for thee and not for me...

All talk no action.....

WildasformesushiAlaska
 
Blah blah blah blah...they already have confiscated guns in Chicago, NY, NJ....but thats OK...aint YOUR guns are they...nope dont see the true patriots rising up and fighting the gubmint....

Come and get them you JBTs...as long as you come for thee and not for me...

All talk no action.....

WildasformesushiAlaska
That is the way I see it. For 99% of us, it's nothing but talk. As the years pass, they'll continue to confisicate without any real problems. That is proven by history. The VERY FEW who do happen to resist, will be dealt with.
 
I appreciate that there are so many good arguments here supporting my intitial proposal way back the line in this thread.

Sounds like a good case for serious militia activity.
 
one45auto

They will hire foreign mercenaries* who have no compunction whatsoever about firing on American citizens with arms. Given the level of rampant anti-Americanism in the world - and Europe in particular, I don't anticipate that they would have any problem finding willing recruits. In fact the application lines would probably make the tryouts for American Idol seem like a small town Boy Scout jamboree by comparison.

It is one thing for our own government to gradually disarm us through incremental changes in the law - it is an evil thing, IMHO, but a smarter thing from the government's perspective, because the level of active resistance will be very low. In fact (and as this thread demonstrates quite well), most gun owners will even poke fun at those who say that will resist, so the chance of getting a reasonable number to actually resist is vanishingly small.

But that would all change the moment a single foreign soldier/mercenary got involved, let alone thousands or millions of them. It would be perceived far more as an invasion by hostile forces than as a mere law enforcement or political action, as is the case now. Tremendous numbers of gunowners would happily and gladly take shots a foreign gun grabbers, and they'd have the support of a sizable portion of the non-gunowning public. In such a case, I'm sure that we would provide such foreigners with a VERY warm reception to demonstrate our American hospitality. "VERY warm" as in "hot lead." There would be no moral compunctions about using the most brutal tactics imaginable against them (such that Kerry's description of what American soldiers supposedly did in Vietnam would actually be true in thousands of locations across this country). Take a look at "Red Dawn" to get an idea of what would happen.

That such a set of circumstances would be seen so widely as a naked act of aggression is, however, exactly why I think that it is the least likely "Molon Labe" scenario.
 
Just as an FYI...

Here in Korny Kaliforny, we gots us the Dreaded Precondition: Registration.

On record with the Cal-DOJ, along with my name and current address as per my gotta-have-it-to-pass-the-backround-check, listed-with-the-state-D.M.V., CURRENT VALID I.D. card, are:

ALL of my handguns, except for one antique.

A BIG LIST of assault rifles, none of which I actually own (I like 'em fine, as a concept. I just can't stand pistol grips. Funny ergonomics, to me.)


If (That's a big if. ;) ) door to door confiscation of guns is going to happen on any large scale, I imagine it'll start here in the Socialista-run Liberal La-La Land known sarcastically as the PRK.

The sunset of the AWB means nothing here, thanks to our "progressive" legislature and Mr. Gray "No-New-Gun-Control" Davis.

It's actually illegal to transfer (I.e. give, sell, or loan/lend even at the range!) standard-capacity magazines holding over ten rounds here, too. Doing their derndest to manufacture as many criminals as they can, yup. (How can they hope to enforce such a law? I don't get it. :confused: ) All it reall does is prevent the sale of old mags through regular commercial sources, thus creating a black market. A'course, we GOT one of those already as a result of the AWB, but that's going away, so mags'll only cost more HERE. :rolleyes:

Nobody I know or have talked too pays the slightest attention to the mag-transfer thing.They're just sure to look over their shoulder before handing 'em over. Law-abiding peaceful folks, made into casual criminals in the face of an unjust, unenforceable law that everyone thinks is ridiculous. This is an accomplishment? And manufacturing casual criminals wholesale does WHAT to reduce crime? Or improve anything? But I digress...

The Cal-DOJ reported at one point that they were somewhat disappointed at the estimated compliance rate for the assault-weapon registration deal. I believe they said that by their reckoning only about 10% of assault-weapon owners actually bothered to fill out and send in the paperwork. DOJ returned an acknowledgment, A copy of which must be producable on demand upon inspection of any given assault weapon by LE. Presumably the consequence of not producing said document on demand could result in a charge of possession of an unregistered assault weapon.

DOJ was really slow about sending out their returns. Something like 3+ months after the "That's all, folks!" deadline. Taking your gun to the range during that limbo-time was an iffy prospect. However, I know of zero cases of "unregistered assualt weapon" busts. None. Really effective, that law. Effective at WHAT, I don't know.

Correction: Effective at compiling a list of gun-owners and weapons to be confiscated under color of authority once a ban has been voted into place. But, wait a second, there was only a 10% compliance rate, so they'll never get 'em all...

--That's ok. They have a bigger list for the handguns that probably includes 99% of all the gun-owners in the state, so they know where to look. They're gonna pick 'em all up at once when they try to, anyways. Why bother with half-measures?...

Because the key-word here is "try". I have no faith in the success of that undertaking. Gubmint tries that, and the rural-er parts of the state'll build a wall 'round the Bay Area, L.A., and Sacra-tomato to keep the Liberaloons under wraps. Guess where the food and fuel to feed and operate those large metropolitan areas comes from? And how will those hungy, cold, immobile folks vote when they discover they can't leave, as they're surrounded by hostile rural areas all pointing guns at them when they try?

That's presuming the legiscritters don't immediately start getting "voted out" from on high. That could only improve things in this stupid state...

:evil:
 
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