Cosmoline
Member
I've been after one of these for the past year, but finally managed to win an auction for an early production 1886/93. This one is from the old Chatellerault arsenal and is all matching. It's got a nice patina and reasonably good rifling considering the age.
I'm working up 8x50R handloads for it using conservative data for IMR 3031 and 4064 based on Krag .30-40 data. The data in Cartridges of the World looks far too hot to me. I'm also running an initial batch of Trail Boss loads through just to check function and for grossly out of spec headspace. Though by the look of it someone had been shooting it not too long ago and neglected to clean it out.
I haven't done a complete tear-down of it yet, but my initial impressions are good. It's surprisingly light in the hand for such a long piece. It balances quite well. The loading system is sluggish but nicely simple for a tube mag. It doesn't have any of the complex levers or springs in a contemporary design like a Winchester lever gun. The elevator is one-piece and is sprung up by a simple leverage action when the bolt is pulled back. Crude but effective.
There is no safety, though the mag cutoff does function as a means of preventing rounds from feeding from the tube. It also makes it very simple to convert into a Gras-type single shot for pointed bullets. I have read that the designers intended the magazine to be a walking reserve of rounds, and the Lebel would ordinarily be kept in single shot mode until the order was given to open the magazine.
The sights are indeed unusual as I had heard. But I think there are really two in one. The main sights are incredibly fine, with a very very thin front sight sitting in a very very small "V" notch. There are also what I assume were supposed to be battle sights, a notch higher. These are a simple and large block that fits into a large square notch. I suspect this is what they used most of the time. It would print bullets high, but in the aim-for-the-gut tradition that would be fine.
Compared with an 1898 G Mauser or SMLE, the piece is slower to feed from the magazine. You have to reach way down in there with your finger. The bolt handle is further out than a Mosin, and is difficult to work without bringing the rifle down. Also the elevator does not hold the round fast--it sits in there loose on the way up. So it can toss rounds out if worked too vigorously. This would make rapid fire very difficult or impossible.
But I can see what the "les poilus" loved about these rifles. They're tough and reliable for a tube feeder, and the longevity of this one is a good testament to their sound construction. With the long bayonet fixed, they'd make fearsome spears. The simple feeding mechanism would be reasonably resistant to dirt and muck from the trenches. It certainly performed well enough, and stopped the Germans for all those years at Verdun.
And, going back to the 1880's, it's easy to see what scared everyone so much and made Bismark afraid of invading France until the Germans could catch up. This old thing was the Sputnik of its day, and shocked the whole world. The revolution it created is still in effect today, and this rifle is the great grandfather or at least cousin of every smokeless rifle.
I'll post a range report after tomorrow's run.
PS--if you want one of these guys, esp. the original runs that were not converted into the carbine or the later "M" balle, you should move now. The auctions are very active for 1886 lebels right now. I lost about a dozen of them before snagging this one. The prices are going up. I think the upcoming WWI centenary may be having an impact.
I'm working up 8x50R handloads for it using conservative data for IMR 3031 and 4064 based on Krag .30-40 data. The data in Cartridges of the World looks far too hot to me. I'm also running an initial batch of Trail Boss loads through just to check function and for grossly out of spec headspace. Though by the look of it someone had been shooting it not too long ago and neglected to clean it out.
I haven't done a complete tear-down of it yet, but my initial impressions are good. It's surprisingly light in the hand for such a long piece. It balances quite well. The loading system is sluggish but nicely simple for a tube mag. It doesn't have any of the complex levers or springs in a contemporary design like a Winchester lever gun. The elevator is one-piece and is sprung up by a simple leverage action when the bolt is pulled back. Crude but effective.
There is no safety, though the mag cutoff does function as a means of preventing rounds from feeding from the tube. It also makes it very simple to convert into a Gras-type single shot for pointed bullets. I have read that the designers intended the magazine to be a walking reserve of rounds, and the Lebel would ordinarily be kept in single shot mode until the order was given to open the magazine.
The sights are indeed unusual as I had heard. But I think there are really two in one. The main sights are incredibly fine, with a very very thin front sight sitting in a very very small "V" notch. There are also what I assume were supposed to be battle sights, a notch higher. These are a simple and large block that fits into a large square notch. I suspect this is what they used most of the time. It would print bullets high, but in the aim-for-the-gut tradition that would be fine.
Compared with an 1898 G Mauser or SMLE, the piece is slower to feed from the magazine. You have to reach way down in there with your finger. The bolt handle is further out than a Mosin, and is difficult to work without bringing the rifle down. Also the elevator does not hold the round fast--it sits in there loose on the way up. So it can toss rounds out if worked too vigorously. This would make rapid fire very difficult or impossible.
But I can see what the "les poilus" loved about these rifles. They're tough and reliable for a tube feeder, and the longevity of this one is a good testament to their sound construction. With the long bayonet fixed, they'd make fearsome spears. The simple feeding mechanism would be reasonably resistant to dirt and muck from the trenches. It certainly performed well enough, and stopped the Germans for all those years at Verdun.
And, going back to the 1880's, it's easy to see what scared everyone so much and made Bismark afraid of invading France until the Germans could catch up. This old thing was the Sputnik of its day, and shocked the whole world. The revolution it created is still in effect today, and this rifle is the great grandfather or at least cousin of every smokeless rifle.
I'll post a range report after tomorrow's run.
PS--if you want one of these guys, esp. the original runs that were not converted into the carbine or the later "M" balle, you should move now. The auctions are very active for 1886 lebels right now. I lost about a dozen of them before snagging this one. The prices are going up. I think the upcoming WWI centenary may be having an impact.
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