6_gunner
Member
Yup. Arguing with closed-minded Socialists is an exercise in futility. The only good that can come of debating is to inform other people who may be listening to the debate.
Moral Dilemma
- Thread starter cpttango30
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Hokkmike
Member
Just ask him if you could put it up in the interest of discussion.
RKBABob
Member
That's exactly what I was thinking. Posting a firearms-related article with your name on it could be taken as a threat by an emotional hoplophobe. Its also "his" door (even if your tuition paid for it)... you'd be intruding on "his" personal space. Post it anonymosly on the student bulletin board, if you must.
You might also consider writing an article for the student newspaper. Just leave out any reference to the professor, if you know whats good for your GPA.
PS: Welcome to The High Road, karrotx!
There is a time you have to realize that some people are educated far beyond their ability to use such education, they are educated idiots. Spend your time enjoying life and let the proffesor go on with his, he ain't about to "come to Jesus" without some life altering happening.
jj
jj
GBExpat
Member
Since you get along well with him, I would hand it to him and make the "door-posting" determination his ... IMO, that would be the respectful thing to do.
Kim
Kim
Seminole
Member
WOW! I never cease to be amazed by the bigotry displayed on THR against academics. Statements such as these are the very definition of "prejudice"--prejudging other people on the basis of stereotypes. Not only that, the stereotypes are, for the most part, factually wrong. These kinds of remarks would be completely unacceptable if applied to black people, hispanics, gays, poor people, or any other group.
More importantly, these attitudes will result in a continued inability to articulate anything related to firearms (or anything else, for that matter) in a way that will effectively change the mind of an academic.
I happen to be a college professor and there are a number of other college professors on THR. Not all college professors are liberal idiots with superiority complexes. Sure, I do disagree with many of my colleagues (and plenty of people who are not college professors) on all sorts of issues ranging including guns, religion, foreign policy, economics, etc. But it has been my experience that, on the whole, they are far more open than other people to rational, well-argued points of view that differ from their own. What they do NOT respond well to is emotionally based rants and bigoted cheap shots.
In most fields, every aspect of an academic's very long education is based on cultivating the ability to think critically and dispassionately about an issue based on the facts available. If you want to gain an academic's respect, and change his mind, present verifiable facts and well-reasoned argument. Don't expect to win him over immediately--he has to have time to evaluate both the facts and the argument. And don't assume that just because he may disagree with you initially he is an elitist know-it-all. Part of our training is that conclusions are reached by a thorough arguing-out all of the aspects of a subject. Because of this, academia tends to attract people who enjoy argumentation, and then strengthens this personality trait through years of reinforcement. Just because a professor is arguing against your point, critiquing your reasoning, etc., doesn't mean that he isn't open to convincing. In fact, if he thought you were an idiot making an idiotic argument, he probably would just ignore you rather than continue the conversation.
All that being said, my advice is to NOT EVER put anything up on a professor's door, even if it expresses a point of view he or she would agree with. Our doors are extensions of our offices--your posting something on it would just be rude and no one reacts well to rudeness. It would certainly not help convince him that you are the kind of person whose opinions need to be considered.
If you think this professor can be reasoned with and that you can do it effectively as I've outlined above, have a conversation with him now. If either he isn't the kind of person who can be reasoned with or you don't think you can do so without affecting your grade, then wait until after the semester is over. Your gesture of respect and continued interest in him personally rather than just as a source of a grade may very well result in his displaying some respect for you and your point of view.
The Annoyed Man
Member
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Rumble
Member
Thank you, Seminole, for sticking up for us academic types.
Old Dog
Member
First, the OP's question does not represent a moral dilemma, since I don't believe his situation is a question of right or wrong (or even a question of virtue, righteousness or nobility), but rather a question of tact or appropriateness. Discretion would indicate inaction as the proper course of action in this case, unless the profession in question had previously invited students or other faculty to post material on his door.
Second, I am truly offended that this thread has degenerated into bashing all college faculty members (being the son of a truly wonderful man, who happens to be a retired college professor and a stauch supporter of the 2nd Amendment -- and common sense, to boot).
Second, I am truly offended that this thread has degenerated into bashing all college faculty members (being the son of a truly wonderful man, who happens to be a retired college professor and a stauch supporter of the 2nd Amendment -- and common sense, to boot).
I've seen no truth represented in this thread by those who apparently suffer from extreme bigotry toward college professors.
Funny how those who are educated the most are the first to start name calling. The fact that guns are the best way for the common man to defend himself has escaped the majority or the educated proffesors. By looking at the liberal establishment in education alone one can determin that the majority of educators are against the private ownership of guns.
If I call all terrorist killers then I am bigoted against terrorist I guess but it is still the truth. You guys can be offended all you want but the majority of those who are professors are anti gun. Stereotype is funny, at one point a professor wants to stereotype himself with the oppressed
Not hardly.
jj
If I call all terrorist killers then I am bigoted against terrorist I guess but it is still the truth. You guys can be offended all you want but the majority of those who are professors are anti gun. Stereotype is funny, at one point a professor wants to stereotype himself with the oppressed
and join the protected class. Next he declares all professors have an opened mind.
Not hardly.
jj
cpttango30
Member
I decieded to not just pin it up on his door. After thinking about a few comments it made since to me that I shoud not do that. It is the door to HIS office not mine. So for now I will jut leave it alone. Might drop it by for him to read in a few days. In a envelope on the door.
Rumble
Member
Just Jim, this is disingenuous - first off, your contention was that we couldn't learn, couldn't be taught, and didn't know what was good for us. What's more, despite the clear bias, it wouldn't have been quite as blatantly insulting if you'd said "the majority" or "most of" in the first place.
I doubt I'm going to change your mind, but that's a really wide brush to tar us with, because we're in academia.
On topic: cpttango30, good luck with it. Might turn out to be interesting!
Old Dog
Member
Ah, the irony. So many here resent the fact that they are stereotyped because they are gun-owners ...
There's always the dictionary ... or spell-check.
Rumble
Member
Learn what about them? If you mean how to use them, then experience, clearly. Like pretty much anyone. I read about it first, but learning by doing is the only way with most physical activities.
If you meant "how did you learn about the RKBA," then I learned by reading, thinking, and talking to people. Shooting a gun isn't how one learns about those things, at least IMHO.
Did that answer the question, or were you after some other aspect?
Rumble
Member
Uh...yeah. Actually. I'm not sure what you're getting at there. I mean, if you mean aside from actual gun use, I learned about things relating to guns, gun control, the Constitution, and so forth during my education. I talked to people about it. I thought about the different sides. I came to conclusions. And so forth.
With regard to physically handling, using, and being familiar with firearms, nobody in my family owned guns before I did. I was taken shooting by my fiancee (just about 2 years ago, actually), at which point I decided that I enjoyed it and wanted to do it more. So in that sense, my learning about guns was by experience. But the theoretical stuff, the political stuff...those things happened before that (though not all of it - I learned more about it after actually owning guns, so perhaps in that sense you are correct - I was prompted to learn more after physically experiencing the activity).
On the other hand, maybe I am unusual in that I tend to just pursue odd paths of learning. For example, I've up and decided I wanted to learn how to write web pages, so I started reading about HTML. Same with how to throw knives. I just decided I'd like to know. But I don't know that it's that unusual to suddenly want to know something.
Officers'Wife
Member
Hi Seminole,
Pardon me if my comment 'sounded' like a blanket statement, it was not meant to be. I was basing the comment on my impressions of how the prof in question was described in the first post.
That said, not all firearms are loaded, not all bulls are ready to hook the stranger that invades their pasture, not all men that put an arm around you have impure intent. not all policemen are on a power trip and not all professors are closed minded. However, considering the harm that can be done common sense demands one considers the positive until the judgment can be made to the negative.
And for the record, the wiser than I Greybeard that advised me that college was to teach when you have manure thrown at you not to swallow was once Dean of Pharmacy at Ohio State University.
The truth is, there are more than a few profs that lose touch with reality and nothing will bring them back. I recall one prof in particular that viewed Calc as an art form and demanded the students treat the subject as such. Nothing could convince her that engineering students saw the subject as a means to solve problems.
Selena
Pardon me if my comment 'sounded' like a blanket statement, it was not meant to be. I was basing the comment on my impressions of how the prof in question was described in the first post.
That said, not all firearms are loaded, not all bulls are ready to hook the stranger that invades their pasture, not all men that put an arm around you have impure intent. not all policemen are on a power trip and not all professors are closed minded. However, considering the harm that can be done common sense demands one considers the positive until the judgment can be made to the negative.
And for the record, the wiser than I Greybeard that advised me that college was to teach when you have manure thrown at you not to swallow was once Dean of Pharmacy at Ohio State University.
The truth is, there are more than a few profs that lose touch with reality and nothing will bring them back. I recall one prof in particular that viewed Calc as an art form and demanded the students treat the subject as such. Nothing could convince her that engineering students saw the subject as a means to solve problems.
Selena
Now all the education you had before this moment was just words. Words are there to back up the "experience", that is why educators have failed us. They use words to convey things that should and can only be experienced.
To tell our kids guns are bad and drag them through the fear of being unprotected is the real shame of education. Life can't really start till the fear goes away, ever heard of Maslow??
jj
Some were suggesting you do it anonymously. I agree with those that said you should try to engage him in discussion, or at least give it to him with a letter so he knows who it's from and what you're thinking. In this situation I think anonymous = fear = less respect for your view.
So what's the point of this article, that gun bans don't work?
Rumble
Member
Okay, I see where you're going with this. The problem with the statement that you can't teach with words is that words is what we have, and if we can't discuss it without trying it, then maybe it never gets discussed. It also seems like you're assuming that professors are anti-gun because they haven't tried it out, and if they'd just go shooting, they'd see it wasn't so bad. What happens when people try them out, and hate 'em?
My brother did that. No problem with the notion of guns and being armed, but he won't go shooting. His epiphany was that shooting was not at all fun. He was uncannily good at it for a beginner (better than me after several months of practice), but after he finished, he said "this isn't for me. I don't like it." Now, he didn't turn into a raving anti-gun lobbyist, but he won't own guns.
Conversely, if you find a pro-gun professor, who had never used them, would you insist that he try it first, before ever talking about guns in the classroom? Because how could he really be "pro-gun" if he'd never experienced guns?
Now, I doubt we're going to settle this, and it's way off-topic, so we'll probably end up shutting this down. But to sum up, if we cannot use words to teach (even when experience might be better), then we're pretty much hosed as far as teaching goes.
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