morals question

[GlowinPontiac]

Yesterday i took a friend of mine to the local gun store to help him pick out a used shotgun for his first gun as he has recently started coming with me and my fieancee when we go clays shooting. as i waited while he filled out the paperwork a man with his wife and newborn child came in with 2 guns to sell to the store, a mossberg 590 in mint condion and an sks with synthetic stock but missing the internal fixed magazine. Judging by the look on his face he did not wish to part with the guns but either the need for money or the wishes of his wife were forcing him to sell them. the guy behind the counter offered him 75 for the mossberg and 50 for the sks. he still had the reciept from this same store showing that he purchased the mossberg not too long ago for over 300 dollars. he refused the offer and left but came back in a few minutes later dragged by his wife and sold the guns.

i had no cash on me at the time but was thinking that if i went out to the parking lot and offered him 100-150 for the mossberg i could have gotten a good deal on a nice shotgun and he would have gotten more money that what the store was offering.

i would imagine the store employees would not like this much as i would be hurting their buisness but would i be doing anyting seriously wrong by offering to pay him more for the gun then the store was after he refused their offer?

 

[Gunfixr]

I don't think so. The owner of the store I work at part-time doesn't mind if a customer buys a gun he has made an offer on and is refused. In fact, he tells people that they will get more selling it outright than to sell it to him. But he does insist that any such transactions do not occur inside his store. It does conflict legally with his business.

 

[Alphazulu6]

They are just turning a profit as they have to do. But thats the world of business and emotions dont really matter when it comes to paying the bills (in both situations). I think all of us have been at a local gun store and witnessed the low-ball deal the store manager/owner bids on the gun and then buys it right in front of the patrons.. So if you want it just buy it from the gentlemen go outside of the establishment as it is their place of business not yours.

Terrible it has to happen that way but seriously you have no moral obligation to the store in competing for a purchase and in the end driving the cash up for the nice gentlemen that had to sell his firearms to support his family. I am 100% sure he would appreciate it. As for the store manager, he is getting paid irregardless. Good luck!

 

[PatPatPat]

You should have gave the guy your number or took his in the parking lot, then you could have made the purchase later off store property (when you had the $$$).

Don't pass up good deals.

No question of morals here.

Except maybe talking the guy out of selling his guns!! (poach his wife)

 

[mnrivrat]

An interesting question that I'm sure will bring different opinions.

My opinion is that it would have been OK to follow him into the parking lot and make the offer you mention. Now the shop may not have appreciated that, but then they realy low balled this guy on the prices. Who would have the "moral" high ground ? Well, your offer whould have been a much fairer one.

That said, I don't think it is appropriate to interfere in a ongoing deal between a shop/dealer and a customer. I just wouldn't have seen what you mention as interfering.

 

[10-Ring]

I doubt the shop would mind. Remember, that shop is in business to make money, that Mossberg & the SKS cost the shop money to get in & it would be foolish for them to even give him wholesale for the guns. If you could have helped the guy out, great...

 

[GlowinPontiac]

Thanks guys.

From now on when i visit that store i think i will carry 100 bucks or so incase something like this happens again.

it just made me sad to see this guy come in to sell his guns to pay the bills and get lowballed that badly....

 

[Trebor]

Don't poach on a deal in progress. Whether it's between a dealer and a customer or between two private parties. That's just bad form.

Once he turned down the deal on his own though, I probably would have followed him out to the parking lot and made him a better offer, right then and there.

 

[GlowinPontiac]

Trebor,

I would never butt in on a deal in progress. i simply overheard what he was offered by the employee and he refused the offer and left. this was when i was considering following him outside and making him a higher offer.

He came back in a few minutes later though with a sad look on his face and sold the guns.

 

[CajunBass]

I suspect the store didn't want them in the first place. That's one of the reasons for the low offer. If they can get them dirt cheap, well, they'll take them, but they'd probably just as soon not fool with them.

 

[toivo]

I agree that once he leaves the store, the deal is fair game, even in the parking lot. Just because he brought the guns into the store once, that doesn't mean that store has dibs on all future deals for those guns. But definitely not IN the store, and definitely not if there's any ongoing negotiation between him and the store. That would be poaching.

 

[evan price]

Recently was in a gun store and saw a couple college kids come in. Said they needed money for spring break. One of them had a new still in original box Bushmaster A2 AR carbine he had bought at the same shop years ago but never shot, still had the receipt!
The shop offered him $350 for it cash; he said he was hoping to get $700 but said he'd take $500 right now! The shop would not go any higher than their original offer.
Unfortunately, I had $500 in my pocket 15 minutes prior but had just bought a Springfield XD9 and $400 of it was gone. Been kicking myself for not following them out into the parking lot and asking them to follow me to the bank!

Best thing to remember is that door-sharking is not appreciated anywhere. If the seller and customer are in the middle of a "deal" then do the right thing- butt out. If both parties fail to agree then it is OK to discretely approach the seller to make an offer or agree to their price.

As said before, this shop I go to a lot will usually suggest that sellers try to sell privately or via Gunbroker since they fully disclose they can't pay retail for stuff to resell or will offer to sell on consignment if the cash offer is not to the seller's liking.

 

[Ala Dan]

My friend, you would not have done anything wrong by offering the gentleman
more cash; than what was offered by the store employees. Perhaps the man
selling the firearms needed the cash for "baby formula", diapers, or tons of
other accessories it takes too operate a newborn baby. The extra cash flow
would probably come in handy.

The only thing, when making these types of transactions between two
individual parties; please don't do it on the stores property. We (even our
own employees) do it all the time. If we see something we would like too
own and our boss doesn't anti-up enough funds to his/her satisfaction;
then its fare game. To date, I personally have bought three that way
myself; so don't feel bad, and the next time you will be better prepared.

 

[Wedge]

Nothing wrong with going to the parking lot and making the deal there, or arranging for it. Would have helped them out, sounds like they really needed the money.

 

[crankshop1000]

It's business!!!The guns were for sale.You should carry a cash stash just for such occasions.

 

[jeepmor]

Yes, I saw a sweet 1911 (not sure what it was, but it was immaculately clean) get sold to the gun shop for $400 bucks the day I bought my hunting rifle. Had I not wanted the hunting rifle so bad, I would have counter offered the store owner (happen to know he was) right then and there to get myself a $1k gun for around $500. C'est la Vie, guess I've got to take some "extra" coin with me in cash form just in case I stumble onto something like that again.

 

[ZeSpectre]

I agree that once he leaves the store, the deal is fair game, even in the parking lot. Just because he brought the guns into the store once, that doesn't mean that store has dibs on all future deals for those guns. But definitely not IN the store, and definitely not if there's any ongoing negotiation between him and the store. That would be poaching.

Agree.

 

[fletcher]

Nothing wrong at all. Just ask him if you can talk to him outside for a minute, then make your offer. If he wants to sell it to the store, he'll decline. If he wants more money, you just got yourself a gun.

 

[DogBonz]

Nothing wrong with that

The owner was low balling him because he could see that the guy was hard up and needed the cash. You would have been doing two good things, maybe 3. You would have given that guy a fair price for his guns, you would have gotten a good deal or two, and you may have prevented the dealer from ripping off someone who bought the used gun at what would probably be an inflated price.

P.S. I got a great deal on a nice Colt Gold Cup once this way. I was buying ammo when this guy walked in to sell a "old pistol" that he found in his uncles things when he passed away. The shop owner offered him $150 because "it's used and missing the magazines... and the mags are expensive" When the salesman went to the back to get the cash, I told him that I would take it for $250. I ran to the ATM, then we drove down the road to the other gun shop and did the transfer.... * happy dance... happy dance*

 

[mbt2001]

I dunno...

"Good deals" happen because someone sold too cheap or didn't know what they had. I believe in being honest, I wouldn't pay $30.00 for something worth $3,000.00... You have to draw the line somewhere though or you don't get any good deals.

 

[KingHugh]

All's Fair in Love and war. The shop guy was obviously taking advantage of this poor guy. He didn't need that when, the last thing in the world he WANTED to do was sell his guns. I'm not saying the shop was obligated to give him more, they are in business to make money not give it away. But, that doesn't mean somebody else can't make the poor guy a better offer.

 

[308win]

As long as the transaction is off of store property you have not violated any relationship you have with the shop owner.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Often a dealer will get a used gun that will sit in inventory
and take up rack/counter space that could be devoted to
faster moving items. Dealer offers are often much lower than
what the dealer could sell it for, simply because it may
sit unsold for a long time.

My local dealer has few problems with a customer in the store
offering more to a seller for a used gun than the dealer can
afford to offer for it. Most of the customers are either members
of the same club or LE. Strictly speaking, though, it could be
problems for a dealer to have private transactions in shop
under federal or state regs.

But 75 for 590 and 50 for an SKS barreled action in a synthetic
stock is just too low to be moral. If I had the money, i would
do a legal face-to-face transaction off-premises.

 

[Frandy]

i had no cash on me at the time but was thinking that if i went out to the parking lot and offered him 100-150 for the mossberg i could have gotten a good deal on a nice shotgun and he would have gotten more money that what the store was offering.

As others have posted, once the deal is dead and both of you are out of the store, you can do as you wish.

 

[Cliff47]

It pays to have a 'recreation fund' built up just for this kind of circumstance. I would have grabbed one of the shop's business cards, put my name and number on it and said 'Call me' once he had refused the shop's offer.