More Buckshot Load Questions!

[Cypress]

Please forgive my ignorance on this matter. I have been loading rifle and pistol stuff for over 10 years now but this is my first attempt at reloading shotshells and it seems I picked an odd area to begin. The data for buckshot is very scarce. I'm pretty resourceful read cheap and I have a few supplies on hand I would like to use to make my loads. Heres my list

Win AA HS hulls
aa12 wads
hand casted by me #4 buckshot
Unique powder (powder is not that critical)

My question is this...My load of 27 pellets weighs roughly 1 1/8 oz. Can I use Alliant data for loads of this weight with regular shot? They list a Win 209 primer, 21-23.5 gr. Unique, WAA12 wad and 1 1/8 oz of shot all in my hull for 1250 fps. I loaded a dummy round up and it crimped fine. The only thing I noticed is that the last 5 pellets were above the wad. Is this a safe load to fire or am I totally off base here. Thanks in advance for your replies and the more info the better!

 

[arjppj]

Easy answer...no. The "fluidity" of birdshot is different than buckshot. Imagime moving 1lb of feathers versus 1lb of lead. Bad example, but an example none the less. The closest powder that i can find data for is hr-7625. With AA hulls, waa12R hulls(slightly shorter leg section & deeper cup for 1-1/4 to 1-3/8oz shot), win 209 primer, it suggests 23.5gr, and with the unique being a little faster burn, I'd tone it down to 22gr and work up little by little.

I have the Lyman's 5th edition and even in it, there is only about 15 pages of data for shotguns.

 

[rg1]

The Win AA12 wads don't have enough space to load 27 pellets of #4 buckshot. It's highly recommended to only use published data with the exact same components listed. In Lyman's 5th Edition Shotshell manual they only list 2 loads for #4 buck with Win HS or compression formed hulls using Win 209 primers. Both use Winchesters WAA12R wad. Nothing with Unique powder though.
(both loads with Win HS 12 ga. 2 3/4" or compression formed hulls with a fold crimp)
---IMR 4756-27.0gr--win 209--WAA12R wad--27 pellets #4 buck--1250fps-9000psi
---Alliant Herco-24.5 gr--win 209--WAA12R wad--27 pellets #4 buck--1275fps--10500psi
I'd buy a bag of Winchester WAA12R red wads and some IMR 4756 powder. Careful when seating wads with the HS 2 piece hulls as sometimes the wad will catch on the lip at the bottom of the hull.

 

[JO JO]

with shotgun you need to stick with the data in the books you dont work up loads with shotguns as you do with metalic loading.

 

[jojo200517]

Your going to need WAA12R wads for you #4 buck loads. I'm not sure about your powder I load mine with ~23 grains of Universal. 23.6 is listed max on hodgdon data center.

Also as far as them sticking up above the wad, are you stacking them in or just dumping them in? I read you can just dump them in on smaller sizes like #4 but I never got them to all fit in right if I didn't stack them.

Stick with the data you have, making it up as you go is VERY dangerous.

 

[Cypress]

Thanks for the replies. Anybody know where to buy some reloading components on Thanksgiving. I like this old Versamec better than the inlaws!!!!

 

[Uniquedot]

My question is this...My load of 27 pellets weighs roughly 1 1/8 oz. Can I use Alliant data for loads of this weight with regular shot?

Yes you can. As long as your charge does not weigh more than 1 1/8 oz. you can safely substitute that weight with your number four buckshot. When you do this the load will not be as good as a #4 buckshot specific load and most often it will have lower pressures than the birdshot load. There have been tests done to prove this fact. Larger buckshot will have even lower pressures when substituted for birdshot in a recipe and this is the reason they often use large charges of a slow burning powder to get the pressure and velocity needed.

 

[jojo200517]

I see that alliant uses projectile weight for shot loads as well as a shotgun reloading manual I have from BPI, tho they usually also list shot equivalent in pellet count.

I know me and everyone else preaches to load by the manual and never go outside those bounds, every drivers ed class also preaches to never exceed the speed limit on the highway.

I have in the past loaded stuff outside of the lines myself. There are several variables to consider, and I don't push the max charge limits when i'm doing so, and I don't routinely get my car over 100mph anymore either. Maybe I'm getting old

When it comes right down to it with the same hull, same primer, same powder charge and same wad in the same cylinder choke barrel you ideally shouldn't generate any more pressure with 1 1/8th oz regardless of whether it is #8 birdshot or #4 buckshot. The issue of pressure MAY rear its ugly head with a change in bore constriction (choke) tho. Now I mention same cylinder choke barrel because squeezing 27 #4 pellets thru a mod or full choke is going to be harder than doing the same with birdshot. It won't act as fluid. Think of it like this. Birdshot will pour thru a small funnel into the shot container fairly easy. Pouring #4 buck thru the same funnel will probably jam up.

Slugs are an entirely different story, specifically if they must squeeze thru the forcing cone.

Now about that going outside the lines and over the limits thing. I routinely see data showing 1 1/4 oz of birdshot running as high as 11,500 PSI. Yet at the same time I never see buckshot or slug data pushing over 10,500 psi, in fact 00 buck loads I see are usually under 10,000psi. I just looked up and 11,500 psi is the listed SAAMI max pressure for 12 gauge loads (3.5 inch aside). My question is why the 1000 psi reserve? Is this reserved to deal with the dangers that may be caused by a difference in how bore constrictions behave with larger shot?

Sorry hope I didn't derail your thread.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Short anwser is yes.
I've loaded buckshot for many, many years using 1-1/8oz wads and equivalent weight of shot in buck-shot. (ditto 1-1/4 and 1-1/2oz combinations).
However, use extreme caution if adding buffers, fillers, or changing powder,primer, or hulls.
I've loaded the load you mentioned and it performs ok. I suggest using the lightest recommended powder charge for hull, wad, primer combination aslong as crimp is adquate as this improves pattern.
It's the pattern that makes buck-shot effective. An additional 150fps m/v will only equate to ~50fps increase at 40yds as round-ball is a very ineffiecient projectile. Multiple hits is what buck-shot is about. Therefore, go for a tight pattern that hits where the gun "looks".....
I've got a "0"-buck load for the 20ga w/10pellets that will pattern 100% at 40yds. I've taken 3 deer with 3 shots at ~30-40yds and several pigs.... It works because I put 5-7pellets where they count.....Head/neck/lungs/heart.

 

[Cypress]

I was hoping that my thinking was correct. If it wasn't then my undrstanding of physics was a little off. I never hot rod anything but I don't always do what the books say. I generally just listen to the voices in my head and it keeps me interested in reloading. I hope those voices never decide to lie to me. I think I'll try this load both ways and see how it works out.Thanks for all your input guys. Even you guys that were trying to keep me from killing myself!

 

[jojo200517]

GooseGestapo makes a very good point about going with the lighter charge. When patterning loads, even commercial loads, I have noticed that higher velocity loads have a tendency to "blow out" the pattern if you go to far.

Multiple pellets in the hit zone and a good even tight pattern is absolutely what buckshot and custom loading of it is all about.

In general I have also found that without buffer plated shot tends to hold a little better pattern than plain lead due to less pellet deformation.