DJW
Member
tagged
More guns seen at airports! I forgot I had it!
- Thread starter tipoc
- Start date
- Status
smalls
Member
I've stopped at the door to the courthouse once or twice and remembered I had to go put my gun in my glovebox. I emptied my pockrts the one time, snd sure enough my Kershaw got tossed in the bin. One time I was headed to Canada, and almost forgot I had my carry piece on me. Luckily I was only a few blocks from home.
I can understand it. It becomes unnatural feeling to not have a carry gun on you, and you could forget. But I'd probably remember once I get close enough to boarding. I pat myself down a few times before going through metal detectors, now, or before I leave for Canada.
I can understand it. It becomes unnatural feeling to not have a carry gun on you, and you could forget. But I'd probably remember once I get close enough to boarding. I pat myself down a few times before going through metal detectors, now, or before I leave for Canada.
Esoxchaser
Member
I know a woman who not once but twice the TSA found a loose round of ammunition rattling around in the bottom of her purse. They weren't too happy with her,( her husband was even less impressed the second time around) but they just kept the offending round and let her go on board her flight.
beatledog7
Member
Perhaps a stretch of the topic, but can anyone point to any real proof that disarming airline passengers is saving lives?
We can discuss hypotheticals, and we can talk about past hijackings, but in a world where we've become much more wary and less sheepish regarding bad guys taking over a plane, what are the odds that a few documented responsible CCW holders actually carrying on a flight are going to pose any issues?
Captive environment? Yes. But so are elevators, and we don't disallow carry in elevators. When was the last case of a mass elevator shooting?
I can easily understand how a person can show up at an airport with his or her gun. People who legally carry are rational people, and disarming rational people is irrational. Disarming to go to the airport or anywhere else is out of character for a rational CCW holder.
We can discuss hypotheticals, and we can talk about past hijackings, but in a world where we've become much more wary and less sheepish regarding bad guys taking over a plane, what are the odds that a few documented responsible CCW holders actually carrying on a flight are going to pose any issues?
Captive environment? Yes. But so are elevators, and we don't disallow carry in elevators. When was the last case of a mass elevator shooting?
I can easily understand how a person can show up at an airport with his or her gun. People who legally carry are rational people, and disarming rational people is irrational. Disarming to go to the airport or anywhere else is out of character for a rational CCW holder.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
The difference between things such as water and a gun is that you can be arrested for trying to take a gun through security at the airport, even for sports professionals and clergy...
http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/golfer-arrested-with-loaded-gun-at-airport/
http://newsone.com/2607463/william-henry-murphy-iii-arrested/
So yeah, a $1000 fine is fairly minor compared to the expenses associated with being arrested.
The notion that carrying a gun into the airport is something that can just easily happen really discounts the factor of the responsibilities of being a gun owner.
It may be an easy mistake to accomplish, like the DUI mentioned above, but the consequences can be substantial. This isn't a problem that should be considered in terms how easy it is to disregard one's responsibilities, but how significant the consequences can be.
Getting busted with a gun at the airport is just your public notification that you aren't responsible enough to be a gun carrier.
http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/golfer-arrested-with-loaded-gun-at-airport/
http://newsone.com/2607463/william-henry-murphy-iii-arrested/
So yeah, a $1000 fine is fairly minor compared to the expenses associated with being arrested.
The notion that carrying a gun into the airport is something that can just easily happen really discounts the factor of the responsibilities of being a gun owner.
It may be an easy mistake to accomplish, like the DUI mentioned above, but the consequences can be substantial. This isn't a problem that should be considered in terms how easy it is to disregard one's responsibilities, but how significant the consequences can be.
Getting busted with a gun at the airport is just your public notification that you aren't responsible enough to be a gun carrier.
Last edited:
BSA1
member
Perhaps a stretch of the topic, but can anyone point to any real proof that disarming airline passengers is saving lives?
Not at all. Since the brave passenger of United Flight 93 fought the highjackers on 9/11 millions of Americans are taking responsibility for their personal safety. News reports are common nowdays of how passengers subdue unruly or mentally disturbed passengers and highjackers on airplanes. Yet the airline attendants union continue to have us believe these same passengers carrying knifes on planes is going to result is mass mayhem.
Comments like
“The kind of person who "forgets" that he's carrying a gun through an airport security checkpoint is obviously so lacking in "situational awareness" that it becomes an open question whether he should be carrying in the first place. Or, more likely, he's not really "forgetting" but is testing the limits of the security system. Either way, there should be some serious penalties for such behavior, not just "here's your gun, take it back to your car." He gets no sympathy from me...”
show some continue prefer to put their trust for their safety in the hands of Big Brother.
Not at all. Since the brave passenger of United Flight 93 fought the highjackers on 9/11 millions of Americans are taking responsibility for their personal safety. News reports are common nowdays of how passengers subdue unruly or mentally disturbed passengers and highjackers on airplanes. Yet the airline attendants union continue to have us believe these same passengers carrying knifes on planes is going to result is mass mayhem.
Comments like
“The kind of person who "forgets" that he's carrying a gun through an airport security checkpoint is obviously so lacking in "situational awareness" that it becomes an open question whether he should be carrying in the first place. Or, more likely, he's not really "forgetting" but is testing the limits of the security system. Either way, there should be some serious penalties for such behavior, not just "here's your gun, take it back to your car." He gets no sympathy from me...”
show some continue prefer to put their trust for their safety in the hands of Big Brother.
bassdogs
Member
Bingo on this statement. When you forget you're armed, you have become way to complacient [sp] and are that much more likely to make a mistake or risking "weapon exposure". Not an anti gun comment. CCW requires great responsibility. Don't ever get so comfortable w/ a carry that you let your guard down.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
We share that phobia.
I arrive 3 hours before the flight and pound down scotch for 2.5 hours just so I can get on a plane.
On topic, yes, I have noticed an increase in people attempting to board aircraft while armed with a gun just here in Cleveland and the answer is almost always the same "I forgot I had it with me". Anytime I carry a gun I am very aware that it is where it is. How can you head to an airport to board an aircraft and not know you have a gun on your person?
Ron
Jim Watson
Member
Off body carry makes it easier to slip up. I bet a lot of these are found in purses, organizer/holsters, back and fanny packs.
I knew of one gun inadvertently smuggled to Thailand (and back) but that was before 9/11 and establishment of the TSA to remind us who is in charge. Which is more important to our Leaders than actual security.
I knew of one gun inadvertently smuggled to Thailand (and back) but that was before 9/11 and establishment of the TSA to remind us who is in charge. Which is more important to our Leaders than actual security.
OP
OP
tipoc
Member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2006
- Messages
- 3,563
It's an interesting situation. Seems to say something about who owns guns and different attitudes to them. There are a lot more people who own guns than there are gun people.
I can see folks forgetting if their spouse talked them into getting a gun, or they talked themselves into it. There are a lot of situational gun owners. Some incident or situation in their lives convinced them they should have a gun. But they don't really care for guns, rarely shoot, they stick it in a purse or briefcase and then...out of sight out of mind. The gun isn't a part of their life. They don't know where it is day to day. Stick it in a pack back in June, in August they use the same back pack as a carry on for the trip to Granmas' place. They forgot the gun was there.
Seems there is another group who get so used to having a gun with them that they can get in line for a screening and forget they are in a dangerous situation. They have no sense of Condition Orange. It's like unless they see what they consider danger they are unaware they are in danger. These are gun people now, folks who like guns and have some skills. But because they see nothing that says "Danger" to them they'll walk right up to the metal detector and say "oops".
Whether it's right or wrong for the TSA and the government to ban guns from planes is another question. They do it now.
tipoc
I can see folks forgetting if their spouse talked them into getting a gun, or they talked themselves into it. There are a lot of situational gun owners. Some incident or situation in their lives convinced them they should have a gun. But they don't really care for guns, rarely shoot, they stick it in a purse or briefcase and then...out of sight out of mind. The gun isn't a part of their life. They don't know where it is day to day. Stick it in a pack back in June, in August they use the same back pack as a carry on for the trip to Granmas' place. They forgot the gun was there.
Seems there is another group who get so used to having a gun with them that they can get in line for a screening and forget they are in a dangerous situation. They have no sense of Condition Orange. It's like unless they see what they consider danger they are unaware they are in danger. These are gun people now, folks who like guns and have some skills. But because they see nothing that says "Danger" to them they'll walk right up to the metal detector and say "oops".
Whether it's right or wrong for the TSA and the government to ban guns from planes is another question. They do it now.
tipoc
OP
OP
tipoc
Member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2006
- Messages
- 3,563
Yes folks do that more often these days and it's a good thing.
Also seems there are more people for them to subdue. Is it better if the troublemakers have a gun with them as well?
Is it also better if the "good guy" has a gun with them but it's stowed in the overhead bin in a backpack and they forgot that it's there.
tipoc
BSA1
member
Well the Airline Stewardess Union got their panties all in wad over the TSA proposal to allow knives to be carried on planes.
Yet all of the incidents I have heard about unruly/mentally disturbed/potential highjackers being subdued have been done by other passengers, NOT the stewardess or air crew.
Since security when on a airplane is dependent on passengers why shouldn't they have the means to fight back?
Yet all of the incidents I have heard about unruly/mentally disturbed/potential highjackers being subdued have been done by other passengers, NOT the stewardess or air crew.
Since security when on a airplane is dependent on passengers why shouldn't they have the means to fight back?
BSA1
member
Let me see if I understand your comment
"It may be an easy mistake to accomplish, like the DUI mentioned above, but the consequences can be substantial. This isn't a problem that should be considered in terms how easy it is to disregard one's responsibilities, but how significant the consequences can be"
correctly.
Are you saying that a mature, rational person that is carrying a handgun in a safe manner who merely steps across a arbitrary line drawn on the ground is as dangerous as someone who chooses to become intoxicated by drinking alcohol and/or drugs, then getting behind the wheel of a car, putting the keys in the ignition, starting the vehicle and then driving down a public road endangering untold number of innocent people with bodily harm or death?
"It may be an easy mistake to accomplish, like the DUI mentioned above, but the consequences can be substantial. This isn't a problem that should be considered in terms how easy it is to disregard one's responsibilities, but how significant the consequences can be"
correctly.
Are you saying that a mature, rational person that is carrying a handgun in a safe manner who merely steps across a arbitrary line drawn on the ground is as dangerous as someone who chooses to become intoxicated by drinking alcohol and/or drugs, then getting behind the wheel of a car, putting the keys in the ignition, starting the vehicle and then driving down a public road endangering untold number of innocent people with bodily harm or death?
fastbolt
Member
It's certainly not unreasonable to conjecture that with more people lawfully carrying concealed weapons in recent years, there's going to be more mistakes in conduct occurring.
I know cops who have gotten in trouble when they forgot to remove magazines from their clothing, luggage, etc and went through airport screening.
I don't care to fly on today's airlines, if at all possible, but when I do, I double & triple check my clothing (especially jackets) and any carry-on luggage/backpacks for any ammunition, knives, etc.
When there are rules it's usually prudent to learn them and adhere to them.
Laziness & complacency can have consequences.
I know cops who have gotten in trouble when they forgot to remove magazines from their clothing, luggage, etc and went through airport screening.
I don't care to fly on today's airlines, if at all possible, but when I do, I double & triple check my clothing (especially jackets) and any carry-on luggage/backpacks for any ammunition, knives, etc.
When there are rules it's usually prudent to learn them and adhere to them.
Laziness & complacency can have consequences.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
There is no "Airline Stewardess Union" and while the major flight attendant unions (AFA and AFPA) were against knives on planes, so too were pilots (APA) and Air Marshals.
I understand being forgetful.
I understand being so used to carrying a gun that you aren't consciously thinking about much of the time.
I understand your carry on bag being a bag you use(d) for other things, and maybe it will have ammo or loaded magazines in it.
I don't understand going to an airport, looking at all of those signs, looking at the metal detectors, seeing all the people putting everything on the belt, seeing all those signs, seeing the metal detectors, putting your objects on the conveyor belt, walking up to the metal detector, and you STILL don't think about the fact that you are carrying a gun on your person.
I understand being so used to carrying a gun that you aren't consciously thinking about much of the time.
I understand your carry on bag being a bag you use(d) for other things, and maybe it will have ammo or loaded magazines in it.
I don't understand going to an airport, looking at all of those signs, looking at the metal detectors, seeing all the people putting everything on the belt, seeing all those signs, seeing the metal detectors, putting your objects on the conveyor belt, walking up to the metal detector, and you STILL don't think about the fact that you are carrying a gun on your person.
jack44
Member
I"l be fling soon so I took off a dummy round I had on my key chain - they probley close the airport down.
marv
Member
Yes you can forget. Happened to me and I don't fly. A few months ago I rushed my Wife to ER in a neighboring State on a Sunday afternoon. I wheeled her in and the rent-a-cop guard stopped me in the lobby and asked if I had a knife in my pocket. That guy is good. He spotted the black clip of my SOG Tanto in my back pocket 20 feet away. I gave him the knife and we went in to admitting. While we were admitting, the thought hit me like a ton of bricks: DARN! MY PISTOL IS IN MY POCKET. No, I did not give my gun to the guard. But I left it and the knife in the car when I parked it.
OP
OP
tipoc
Member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2006
- Messages
- 3,563
Off topic but...
Nice backhanded insult, with a touch of misogyny tossed in. I wonder how it helps advance the argument being made. Maybe it just gets in the way.
It's the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA it represents about 60,000 men and women. There's another one as well that is particular to United I believe, Association of Professional Flight Attendants with about 20,000 members.
They were wrong on the knife thing.
TSA was wrong to announce a change in their position on small knives before discussing it with the flight attendants, the pilots or the bosses who own the airlines.
Flight Attendants have also stopped many an altercation on flights over the years. Their job, full and part time, big and small carriers, is tougher than many think.
tipoc
Nice backhanded insult, with a touch of misogyny tossed in. I wonder how it helps advance the argument being made. Maybe it just gets in the way.
It's the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA it represents about 60,000 men and women. There's another one as well that is particular to United I believe, Association of Professional Flight Attendants with about 20,000 members.
They were wrong on the knife thing.
TSA was wrong to announce a change in their position on small knives before discussing it with the flight attendants, the pilots or the bosses who own the airlines.
Flight Attendants have also stopped many an altercation on flights over the years. Their job, full and part time, big and small carriers, is tougher than many think.
tipoc
This is about 10 orders of magnitude lower than walking through security at a commercial airport while forgetting that you have a gun on your person.
BSA1
member
Not only do some airlines train their cabin personnel in self-defense...
http://www.examiner.com/article/fli...ned-martial-arts-to-control-unruly-passengers
they use it…
http://hotstewardess.com/199/hong-kong-stewardesses-get-kung-fu-training
On most other airlines it’s largely up to the unarmed passengers…but that is of no consequence since airport checkpoints stop all dangerous/unruly/mentally/terrorists/highjackers right?
http://www.examiner.com/article/fli...ned-martial-arts-to-control-unruly-passengers
they use it…
http://hotstewardess.com/199/hong-kong-stewardesses-get-kung-fu-training
On most other airlines it’s largely up to the unarmed passengers…but that is of no consequence since airport checkpoints stop all dangerous/unruly/mentally/terrorists/highjackers right?
OP
OP
tipoc
Member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2006
- Messages
- 3,563
So you recommend that those folks be allowed on a plane with guns?
Is that what I'm reading?
Someone earlier pointed out that a good many, it seems all, incidents of violent behavior and potential violent behavior on airplanes in the U.S. have been stopped since 9/11 by passengers and flight attendants or other crew members working together to stop the threat.
It's been decades since guns were allowed on planes. I'm not sure it was a bad move.
tipoc
OP
OP
tipoc
Member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2006
- Messages
- 3,563
Actually of the millions of people who fly in the U.S. each year it's interesting to see how few people, in comparison, try to get guns through.
It speak to the general responsibility of gun owners. Or at least their acknowledging the relationship of forces.
tipoc
It speak to the general responsibility of gun owners. Or at least their acknowledging the relationship of forces.
tipoc
Deus Machina
Member
The way I see it, stopping weapons from getting on does save lives. Including the people that would originally take them.
I would feel just as safe with legal carriers on board, as well as an air martial to ensure that at least one 'good guy' has a gun on hand. But catching all the weapons before boarding?
At least that puts people on equal footing, and the people fighting back win through numbers.
Not that I'm for having the TSA around, really. There's safety and there's getting a running start before overstepping bounds.
I would feel just as safe with legal carriers on board, as well as an air martial to ensure that at least one 'good guy' has a gun on hand. But catching all the weapons before boarding?
At least that puts people on equal footing, and the people fighting back win through numbers.
Not that I'm for having the TSA around, really. There's safety and there's getting a running start before overstepping bounds.
- Status
Similar threads
