More Hoops for Philadelphia for Firearms License to Carry

[williamcrane]

I see that the City has added two new forms to apply for a Pennsylvania license to carry firearms. You now must not only list two references on your application, but you also have to ask your references to fill out a form. They ask for Name, drivers license, address, phone numbers and last four digits of Social Security number of the reference. Then, here's the kicker - they ask your reference ""would YOU grant the applicant a permit to carry a concealed firearm?" This is followed by a check box for Yes or No and asks for an explanation for either answer.

Now, first of all, my references shouldn't be part of the decision making process of granting me a license - that's the job of the Philadelphia Police department. Secondly, I do not like the idea of anyone, other than my wife, knowing that I carry concealed firearms.

The instructions further state that the references should be Philadelphia residents, and not relatives. I don't know if that means it is mandatory.

This same procedure must be used for renewals.

I don't know of any other county in Pennsylvania that has this requirement. Just more BS that we have to put up with for living in this city.

To see the new forms, go here: http://www.ppdonline.org/hq_gunpermit.php Click on downloads in paragraph 1.

 

[P95Carry]

This sounds like Philly is makin up it's own laws - when IIRC it is in theory obliged to follow the std state shall issue code.

As ever - hoops and hurdles are used to attempt to ''dissuade'' folks from bothering - cos of all the hassle. Geez - what a crock that is over ''referees''.

Hard to believe you are a fellow PA state resident.

 

[TonkinTwentyMil]

Somebody should challenge this in court. Since I don't live there, I can't. Volunteers?

This could become a dangerous legal precedent if allowed to stand.

Perhaps, in the near future, the NRA should jump on this. It looks like a big, fat hanging curve-ball just waiting to be smacked out of the park.

Lock 'n' load, boys.

 

[mtnbkr]

Why not get your permit from another county? I, as a non-resident, got my permit entirely by mail from Centre Co (less than two weeks too!). Can you not do the same? Their form was one page and required nothing from my two "references". Heck, Centre Co didn't even contacting them.

Of course, being a Virginia resident, I'll have to figure out how to get my CCW piece over Md and into Pa since Md doesn't have peaceable journey laws...


Chris

 

[RevDisk]

I was under the belief that the PA Uniform Firearms Act of 1995 forbid locals from making their own firearm laws.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/037/chapter33/chap33toc.html

§ 33.114. Application for a Pennsylvania license to carry firearms.
(a) The application for a Pennsylvania license to carry firearms (as defined in section 6102 of the act (relating to definitions)) form, is used to apply for an original/renewal of a Pennsylvania license to carry firearms and shall be uniform throughout this Commonwealth. It shall be on a form prescribed by the State Police. The form shall be 8 1/2 inches by 11 inches in dimension, on plain white paper. The form shall be used by the issuing authority, that is, county sheriff or a chief of police for a city of the first class, to conduct an investigation within 45 days relative to whether the applicant would be precluded from receiving a license under the conditions in the act.

(b) The application for a Pennsylvania license to carry firearms (as defined in section 6102 of the act) shall be typewritten, computer generated or printed in blue or black ink with a ballpoint pen. Copies shall contain legible impressions. It is the responsibility of the issuing authority to utilize the form as prescribed by the State Police, and ensure it is accurately completed in accordance with the block instructions contained therein. The form shall be retained by the issuing authority for 6 years.

(c) At least 60 days prior to the expiration of each license, the issuing sheriff shall send to the licensee an application for a renewal of license. Failure to receive a renewal application does not relieve a licensee from the responsibility to renew the license.

Source

The provisions of this § 33.114 adopted February 23, 2001, effective February 24, 2001, 31 Pa.B. 1145.

There ya go. If the Philly Form is different than the version given from the PA State Police, they are in violation of the law. Of course, the PSP are running an admittedly illegal handgun registry, so you're not likely to find much support from them. But ya never know.

 

[williamcrane]

Hoops and hurdles

I called Philly PD today. They said to keep checking back. Stuff changes daily?

 

[jnojr]

Of course, being a Virginia resident, I'll have to figure out how to get my CCW piece over Md and into Pa since Md doesn't have peaceable journey laws...

I thought FOPA '86 provided for national "peacable journey"... it wouldn't stop MD from hassling you, but would make sure you weren't convicted (and maybe give grounds to sue).

 

[Phoenix_III]

I was under the belief that the PA Uniform Firearms Act of 1995 forbid locals from making their own firearm laws.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/0.../chap33toc.html



Quote:
§ 33.114. Application for a Pennsylvania license to carry firearms.
(a) The application for a Pennsylvania license to carry firearms (as defined in section 6102 of the act (relating to definitions)) form, is used to apply for an original/renewal of a Pennsylvania license to carry firearms and shall be uniform throughout this Commonwealth. It shall be on a form prescribed by the State Police. The form shall be 8 1/2 inches by 11 inches in dimension, on plain white paper. The form shall be used by the issuing authority, that is, county sheriff or a chief of police for a city of the first class, to conduct an investigation within 45 days relative to whether the applicant would be precluded from receiving a license under the conditions in the act.

(b) The application for a Pennsylvania license to carry firearms (as defined in section 6102 of the act) shall be typewritten, computer generated or printed in blue or black ink with a ballpoint pen. Copies shall contain legible impressions. It is the responsibility of the issuing authority to utilize the form as prescribed by the State Police, and ensure it is accurately completed in accordance with the block instructions contained therein. The form shall be retained by the issuing authority for 6 years.

(c) At least 60 days prior to the expiration of each license, the issuing sheriff shall send to the licensee an application for a renewal of license. Failure to receive a renewal application does not relieve a licensee from the responsibility to renew the license.

Source

The provisions of this § 33.114 adopted February 23, 2001, effective February 24, 2001, 31 Pa.B. 1145.




There ya go. If the Philly Form is different than the version given from the PA State Police, they are in violation of the law. Of course, the PSP are running an admittedly illegal handgun registry, so you're not likely to find much support from them. But ya never know.

RevDisk, you're the man. My girlfriend is getting her CCW and I did mine in Philly about a year ago and it was the straightforward... Can't wait for the references form, where I can ask what the h~ do they think they're doing and cite the correct law, and supply my own PASP furnished forms, or something similar. =)

p3

 

[geekWithA.45]

That's a trick imported from Jersey....

Some "librul" towns unlawfully tack a few extra forms on for the FID application process, and since there's no redress for inaction in NJ, the citizens of those towns are screwed.

(Hint: Bryan Miller, one of the Joyce Foundations useful fools, er, tools hometown of Cherry Hill is one)

Fortunately, PA is in the USA, and so this should be slapped down in fairly short order.

 

[garyk/nm]

I'm about as far from Phila as you can get, so as they say, I got no dog...
From my readings, I understand that this new permit thing is illegal under state law, and that Phila has been pimp-slapped in court before for undertaking such things. How about going after the maroons who keep putting this drivel in place? Like gross, willful violation of state law? Certainly there has to be a prosecutor somewhere in the state looking for a little "face-time"? Be nice to see some of those law-breaking pols do a little jail time for their actions.

 

[RevDisk]

Fortunately, PA is in the USA, and so this should be slapped down in fairly short order.

From my readings, I understand that this new permit thing is illegal under state law, and that Phila has been pimp-slapped in court before for undertaking such things. How about going after the maroons who keep putting this drivel in place? Like gross, willful violation of state law? Certainly there has to be a prosecutor somewhere in the state looking for a little "face-time"? Be nice to see some of those law-breaking pols do a little jail time for their actions.

I doubt it. Keep in mind, the PA State Police have been running an illegal handgun registry. Some citizens tried to sue the PSP and the Govenor (Tom Ridge, at the time) to overturn this obviously illegal police database. The Court ruled that it was not an illegal police registry of firearms, but a perfectly legal police registry of firearm sales. Obviously two different matters.

Oh yes. And it was the Republican pols that supported this illegal database. Tom Ridge went on to become the first Homeland Security czar. And the PSP still have their illegal handgun registry.

http://www.acslpa.org/register/SupremeCourt.htm

http://www.psp.state.pa.us/psp/cwp/view.asp?a=11&q=98332&tx=1

So, PA residents and especially gunowners, remember. The PSP as an organization is not your friend. Many of the officers are nice folks, but their bosses are not. When the PSP can break the law and get away with it, how exactly are we as a citizenry supposed to trust and support them?


Edit : Doh! I forgot to site the appropriate law in question. If ya wanna point out which laws the PSP is violating, it's helpful to site the appropriate laws.

Act 17, Section 6111.4. Registration of Firearms.

Notwithstanding any section of this chapter to the contrary, nothing in this chapter shall be construed to allow any government or law enforcement agency or any agent thereof to create, maintain or operate any registry of firearm ownership within this Commonwealth. For the purposes of this section only, the term “firearm†shall include any weapon that is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.

(Added by L 1995. Spec. Sess 1, Act 17(6,), eff 10/11/95.)

 

[TrybalRage]

Standard forms for Berks County as well.

It was a bit of a surprise, but I had them filled out and got my permit.

 

[williamcrane]

Reference Forms

I just checked out the Berks County forms. Same reference forms as Philadelphia. Maybe this is becoming statewide.