More revelations on Mexico violence and our guns

[bthest86]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162-57337289/legal-u.s-gun-sales-to-mexico-arming-cartels/

...the U.S. has approved the sale of more guns to Mexico in recent years than ever before through a program called "direct commercial sales." It's a program that some say is worse than the highly-criticized "Fast and Furious" gunrunning scandal, where U.S. agents allowed thousands of weapons to pass from the U.S. to Mexican drug cartels.

The State Department audits only a tiny sample - less than 1 percent of sales - but the results are disturbing: In 2009, more than a quarter (26 percent) of the guns sold to the region that includes Mexico were "diverted" into the wrong hands, or had other "unfavorable" results.

So is Eric and the gang going to make a case for the need to close the commercial sells loophole?

Will Felipe Calderon come back to the US house of Reps and shake his finger at our bureaucrats for approving the expedited sell of weapons to his police and military?

 

[razorback2003]

It would not surprise me if a good bit of the guns used illegally in Mexico were legally exported from the USA and European countries to the Mexican military and police. The problem is I'm sure many of the military and police guns are illegally sold or stolen to the criminals. Sadly many of the criminals are the police and military in Mexico.

Mexico has on paper strict laws for the regular folks to own firearms. 38 Special and 380 auto seem to be the top handgun caliber for the average Mexican down there for protection. It seems like there are also provisions for shotguns, hunting rifles. I have read that gun club members down there can own more of a variety of calibers than 38 special/380 if they are competitors. They do have registration. Now how much of that the police slide by for Mexicans who are otherwise law abiding to own say a unregistered 38 special, who knows. I bet it is common. I'd hate to be an American with an unregistered/unauthorized firearm down there!

 

[Carl N. Brown]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162-57337289/legal-u.s-gun-sales-to-mexico-arming-cartels/
Sharyl Attkisson, "Legal U.S. gun sales to Mexico arming cartels", CBS News, 6 Dec 2011.

The Mexican military recently reported nearly 9,000 police weapons "missing."

Let's back up to the ATF trace stats from Department of Homeland Security and the private Strategic Forecasting: Mexico confiscated 30,000 crime guns between 2004 and 2008; of those, they submitted 7,200 for US ATF tracing. ATF successfully traced 4,000 which were in US databases, and 3,480 (87% of the successful traces) were US origin. (Why submit 7,200 of tracing of a total of 30,000? ATF has been telling Mexico that the ATF database only contains data on guns made in, or imported into, the US, so don't send obviously non-USA source guns for tracing!)

And the Obama administration has been pounding the stat that 90% of Mexican crime guns come from US gun dealers or gun shows and stricter gun control on US civilian sales is the answer to the Mexican drug war.

Now we learn that thousands of legal gun sales to the Mexican government and police, approved by the US State Department, have ended up in cartel hands. Along with some of the guns that ATF let walk in Operation Wide Receiver and Operation Fast & Furious.

I listened today on the radio when a Democrat representative, apologist for the Obama Adminstration, denounced the hearings into Fast and Furious as a controversy fabricated by the Second Amendment supporters, Tea Party and the NRA. Yep, folks, just another vast rightwing conspiracy. That's what they call exposure of vast leftwing conspiracies.

Get real people. Sources in Mexico estimate that there are 15 Million military type and 50 Million civilan type guns in Mexico, unregistered and unpapered and outside Mexican Government control.

What is ATF Demand Letter 3 or any other restriction on US gun dealers going to do about guns in the hands of Mexican criminals? Nada. The real target is guns in the hands of US citizens. "90%" is a controversy fabricated by left-wing enemies of the Second Amendment. There. Ball in their court.

 

[Slotback]

Mr. Brown, you give a nice summary Sir.

 

[ofitg]

It would not surprise me if a good bit of the guns used illegally in Mexico were legally exported from the USA and European countries to the Mexican military and police. The problem is I'm sure many of the military and police guns are illegally sold or stolen to the criminals. Sadly many of the criminals are the police and military in Mexico.

Wikileaks recently released U.S. government communications showing that (1) you are correct, and (2) the government has known this all along.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ug-gangs-armed-U-S-weapons.html#ixzz1Nx0p7gq1

Over 50 per cent of the military-type weapons that are flowing throughout the region have a large source between Central American stockpiles, if you will, left over from wars and conflicts in the past,’ said General Douglas Fraser, the head of the U.S. Southern Command in the memo

 

[hso]

Since the topic is not F&F, but instead the U.S. direct commercial sales program that permits Mexican government organizations to directly purchase firearms from U.S. companies and how those firearms are then diverted from the Mexican government to criminal organizations in Mexico I've weeded the F&F-related posts to return the thread to the original topic.

Members that want to carry on a debate about F&F or F&F news are welcome to join or start threads on those topics and permit the members that want to discuss the direct commercial sales original topic to carry on without interference.