mosin and ammo and accuracy....

[EmGeeGeorge]

I got a m44 mosin... shot it for the first time... barrel looks okay... shots all over the place, like 12 inch group at 50 yards... ammo is... czech surplus, I think from j&g...
I'm a pretty decent shot so I was a little flabbergasted.

any thoughts from you m44 afficianados out there???

although at 100 yrds it seeme like I could reliably keep 'em in a 2' by 2', so go figure...

 

[grimjaw]

In my experience, the two large screws holding the action/magazine/stock together will often work loose, and this can cause some large groups.

Personally I would remove the bayonet and shoot for groups that way at least once. Then shoot with the bayonet, folded and not, and see what kind of results you get.

jm

 

[Afy]

Mosin and accuracy are generally exclusive. Minute of soda can is exceptional as far as my limited expertise goes.

Accuracy to me at 50 yards is a single hole or thereabouts. But I for the life of me cant shoot that...

 

[cracked butt]

ntxt.

 

[cracked butt]

Sounds like typical carbine 'accuracy' from my experience.
I always hear about people having accurate M44s or m38s but I've never seen one firsthand in real life.

 

[Nhsport]

Suspect ammo,not so great sights,generally poor to horrible trigger,questionable bore and a bolt that didn't originally come with this gun,what makes you think it is going to be accurate?
I am sort of kidding but the one I have has a decent bore,the trigger can be mannaged with some practise and I have a batch of heavy ball ammo that seems to work better than most. With good light and if my eyes are working that day I can get the shots close enough to a soda can to kick it around pretty good out to the 100 yd berm.
Snug up the action screws and look for some of the heavy ball ammo and I think you will find it shoots beter than the average mini 14.
The "light ball" never shot very good for me.

 

[GD]

As far as Mosin carbines are concerned, I have never heard of an inaccurate M91/59. The M44s and M38s are a crap shoot. I have accurate and inaccurate ones. The key for some inaccurate ones is finding the right ammo. Still others have no hope for accuracy. An average M38 or M44 should be a 3-4 MOA rifle.

 

[elmerfudd]

I have three accurate MN's. An M44, a 91/30 and an M39. With iron sights and cheap surplus they will all shoot 2" groups at 50 yards, although I think the 91/30 and the M39 do a little better than the M44. I've also had a couple of 91/30's that really sucked. One shoots about 12" groups at 50 yards and the other shoots about 12" groups at maybe 20 yards.

 

[aloharover]

I have seen an M39 shoot close to 1.5MOA at 100 with the bayonet extended.
Shot 2.5 with it folded

I read some where (big grain of salt with that statement) that the weapon was intended to be shot with the bayo extended.

 

[Avenger]

My experience is that extending the bayonet will pull the point of impact to the right about 1.5-2 inches at 75 yards. It doesn't seem to affect dispersion at all, I typically get a 2.5-3 pattern at that range using a M44 with a 2-7x32 NCStar scope on a Darrell Harrison mount.

Hungarian SYT seems to be the best for me, but has sticking issues. The Bulgarian works almost as well without the sticking.

My 91/30 is pretty close to dead accurate at 75 yards over the irons, but every so often it'll send one completely off the paper. Dunno what the issue is there, as the bore and crown are fine.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

I have seen an M39 shoot close to 1.5MOA at 100 with the bayonet extended.
Shot 2.5 with it folded

You mean m44 right?

 

[chris in va]

barrel looks okay

Did you clean the barrel thoroughly? Yours may have seen a lot more action than others, maybe the barrel is shot out.

Try some other ammo, see what happens.

 

[jpwilly]

I don't understand how any rifle could shoot 12" groups at 50 yrds? Did you fire the groups from the bench? My Father in laws Enfield shot 6" groups at 50yrds...then I shot it and put everything into a 1 inch group! He loves to yank the trigger, flinch, and he has trouble seeing the iron sights. The bore on his Enfiled is pitted and worn. We shot it again two weeks ago and it shot 2inch 100yrd groups with iron sights...when my Father in law shot it he shot an 8 inch groups...go figure.

 

[elmerfudd]

I don't understand how any rifle could shoot 12" groups at 50 yrds? Did you fire the groups from the bench?

Trust me, some do and when you're talking about groups like that it doesn't matter whether you're shooting from a bench or not.

I've sometimes wondered just what it is that causes some of these Mosin Nagants to be such lousy shooters, but given the fact that you can buy the rifles for $85 and until recently the ammo was about 10 cents a round it never made any sense to try very hard to fix a bad shooting one. I suppose you could handload for it, recrown the muzzle and refit the stock, but it's a lot easier and cheaper to just buy another one and sell the bad one for fifty bucks or just hang it on the wall.

 

[Z71]

My first Mosin Nagant was an eye opener! An M44 that I bought from a buddy because he needed money. I didn't shoot it for a long time because it just didn't inspire much confidence, plus the ammunition that came with it had cracked necks and dents in the brass cases. Plain scared of the ammo!

Got some different ammunition finally and tried it out. Really shot very well. Bayonet effected the point of impact somewhat, but not bad, and the rifle was consistantly accurate.

I've since picked up a couple of nice 91/30 rifles and a so-so M38. All shoot pretty good I think, even the M38 with a not so hot bore.

I would take the thing apart to see if it might have a problem with the bedding, then try some different ammo. I would think that most any Mosin with a good bore and good mechanics would shoot halfway decent. Maybe not to point of aim, but mine all shoot well and pretty much to the aim point.

 

[jpwilly]

Trust me, some do and when you're talking about groups like that it doesn't matter whether you're shooting from a bench or not.

Well Elmerfudd in my years of shooting numerous rifles, even the crappiest war beaters, a 12" group is generally unrelated to the rifle. That said I'm not so hard headed as to say it cannot happen but there are usually outside forces that cause a "rifle" to shoot poorly. An MOA rifle can shoot a 12" group at 50yrds just depends on who's shooting it and what your feeding it.

 

[elmerfudd]

Well, I've got two 91/30's in my safe and one shoots two inch groups at 50 yards with Albanian surplus and the other can hit a milk jug at 10 yards and doesn't seem to get much better than that regardless of what I feed it. Same shooter, same ammo, nearly identical rifles, completely different results.

 

[cracked butt]

Well Elmerfudd in my years of shooting numerous rifles, even the crappiest war beaters, a 12" group is generally unrelated to the rifle. That said I'm not so hard headed as to say it cannot happen but there are usually outside forces that cause a "rifle" to shoot poorly. An MOA rifle can shoot a 12" group at 50yrds just depends on who's shooting it and what your feeding it.

I have a M38 and an M44 that shoot about like that, and it isn't the shooter, I've tried 5 different types of ammo, and all the screws are tight. The rifles are just complete P'sOS. All of my 91/30s shoot much better than that and even my Steyr-mannlicher which has worse a trigger and sights than the M-N carbines and recoils much harder shoots much better. I've had some problematic milsurps that I eventullay straightened out and have gotten to shoot well, but the M44 and M38 confound me.

 

[Mauserguy]

I would remove the action from the stock and clean and inspect everything. I would then reassemble it and make sure the action screws are snug. I would consider shimming it if the action does not seem to fit correctly.

Also, you must consider that the Mosin does not spring from the Mauser lineage, like most western guns. It is different. If you are used to a pistol grip stock, then shooting the straight stock will take some getting used to.

Additionally, be sure to use ear plugs as well as ear muffs. The muzzle blast is extreme, and it may cause the shooter to flinch.

Lastly, the M44s are muzzle heavy, having the bayonet hanging out there. This changes the ballance reletive to most rifles. Again, the feel will be very different and will require some range time to get used to.

I've found that Mosins make great shooters, you just have to give them a little love and take you time learning to use them.

Have fun.
Mauserguy

 

[Archibald Tuttle]

Before you take off the bayonet I would definitely take a look over at www.7.62x54r.net. They explain that some mosin nagant models such as the M44 and dragoons were originally sighted in with the bayonet attached.

 

[flynlr]

mine is minute of backstop but the Fireball is Cool!

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

I have a century "EX" condition M91/30 and can touch holes at 100 yards with the Bulgarian yellow tip heavy ball on the first 3 out of 4-5 shots before it warms up too much. I dont call myself a great shot but i guess thats pretty good? ive had an M44 and never even took it beyond 30-50 yards, it was a few years ago and at that time i shot none of my guns much farther then that, just never had. -Matt

 

[esmith]

I just shot 2.5 inch groups today at the range with my m44 for the first time. Using surplus. This is good for me as im not that good of a shot. It performed above my expectations.

 

[Schwebel]

Ya what grimjaw said, I learned that trick after a M44 I had turned from a decent shooter to a piece of crap. They really are a crap shoot, I have shot some that are great and others that you couldn't hit a broadside of a barn with. Try another batch of ammo too, maybe you just got some bad stuff.