I am looking into a mosin nagant or a mauser but I am not sure I would like to modify them some not overly I would just like to put a sporter stock and a scope that would be it I have a have a mosin nagant its the polish m44 and it very accurate my uncle give it too me some I am kind of think about get another one to modify I also looked at the mauser because so much more part are available for it thanks
mosin nagant or mauser
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morcey2
Member
Question is, for what purpose are you modifying it? If your doing it for a cheap hunting rifle, you'll be ahead if you look for a used Savage or something like that. If you want it as a project, I'd go with a Mauser of some sort. They're a little easier to scope than a mosin. If you're going to use a scout mount of some sort, then they're about the same. It's easier to find a cheap mosin that's that's accurate currently, but there are some deals on mausers if you're willing to look around.
I've got quite a few of both and they're both great actions.
Matt
I've got quite a few of both and they're both great actions.
Matt
Murphy4570
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Mosins for $79 a pop can't be beat.
Also, there's this wonderful new grammatical invention that has swept the world by storm: The period. .
Also, there's this wonderful new grammatical invention that has swept the world by storm: The period. .
El Mariachi
Member
I guess a hundred dollar Mosin is ok, but fortunately, in the morning when you wake up....you have a Mosin next to you. My suggestion is to kick it up a notch and get something that is a bit different. And more attractive....
I love my mosin but I have one and I don't have a mauser and I am just want it as a project I got two really nice hunting rifle a m70 winchester in 30-06 and a 243 so I am just looking another rifle I would like one I could modify and target shoot with it and some hunting thanks
Ohio Gun Guy
Member
There is iron sight, military surplus accurate, and then there is modern rifle accurate. The old surplus rifles, with exceptions for the very very few, commonly shoot 2"-4" at 100 yards. With iron sights that is likely better than most shooters, and in stock form are great for hunting, etc, etc.
There several real problems with modifying either/any of these old surplus rifles.
1. Their value will drop to a salvage/scrap value. - without collectors value they become shot out 60 year old, modified rifles. Follow any old mosin with 200-300 dollars in accessories on the auction sites. They are usually lucky to get the 100.00 they have in the gun out of the 300-400 they have in the whole set up.
2. Scope mounting - either drill and tap, or don't bother. (See number 3)
3. If the scope is mounted properly, you still have a rifle that shoots 2"-4" on a good day.
4. Cost: Mosin = 100, Scope 50-100 for a cheap one, mount 50 - 100. Options: new stock - 75.00, bent bolt body 50?.
You can get to 300.00 in a hurry, and not be done. On the other hand, for 300.00 +/- you can get a savage axis scoped combo or other entry level bolt action. While these do not have the best scopes, or all the features of the higher level rifles they do shoot 1" typically.
Therefore, by the time you take an old military rifle, you could have had a new rifle that will do what you want. Now, if 300.00 isnt a lot of money to you and screwing around and having fun with it is the purpose, then have at it, take pictures.......t's your money, your rifle.....
There several real problems with modifying either/any of these old surplus rifles.
1. Their value will drop to a salvage/scrap value. - without collectors value they become shot out 60 year old, modified rifles. Follow any old mosin with 200-300 dollars in accessories on the auction sites. They are usually lucky to get the 100.00 they have in the gun out of the 300-400 they have in the whole set up.
2. Scope mounting - either drill and tap, or don't bother. (See number 3)
3. If the scope is mounted properly, you still have a rifle that shoots 2"-4" on a good day.
4. Cost: Mosin = 100, Scope 50-100 for a cheap one, mount 50 - 100. Options: new stock - 75.00, bent bolt body 50?.
You can get to 300.00 in a hurry, and not be done. On the other hand, for 300.00 +/- you can get a savage axis scoped combo or other entry level bolt action. While these do not have the best scopes, or all the features of the higher level rifles they do shoot 1" typically.
Therefore, by the time you take an old military rifle, you could have had a new rifle that will do what you want. Now, if 300.00 isnt a lot of money to you and screwing around and having fun with it is the purpose, then have at it, take pictures.......t's your money, your rifle.....
mausers seem to be a little more popular to modify... I love a sporterized mauser, 8mm mauser is my third favorite gun (10/22, anything in 30-06, and 8mm mauser)
some folks must not be able to read your posts, you stated you already had 2 nice rifles and wanted a project... I would submit my opinion for a mauser, you can make some pretty darn fine guns out of a mauser and you can hotrod the ammunition quite a bit and not end up with a bolt through your eye.
I know next to nothing about mosin's, so, that's my reasoning for waving the mauser flag around.
scopes can be a problem for either one, unless you really want it scoped, just don't bother, you'll come out cheaper and get some practice time in on iron sights. I found a sporterized mauser with remington 700 series irons on it, pretty darn nifty sights for the ol gal. I'm comfortable taking a deer with it at intermediate ranges, so it's pretty good to go. Plus I did not realize how long it had been since I had shot iron sights... I think everyone should make sure to practice with them every once in a while!
some folks must not be able to read your posts, you stated you already had 2 nice rifles and wanted a project... I would submit my opinion for a mauser, you can make some pretty darn fine guns out of a mauser and you can hotrod the ammunition quite a bit and not end up with a bolt through your eye.
I know next to nothing about mosin's, so, that's my reasoning for waving the mauser flag around.
scopes can be a problem for either one, unless you really want it scoped, just don't bother, you'll come out cheaper and get some practice time in on iron sights. I found a sporterized mauser with remington 700 series irons on it, pretty darn nifty sights for the ol gal. I'm comfortable taking a deer with it at intermediate ranges, so it's pretty good to go. Plus I did not realize how long it had been since I had shot iron sights... I think everyone should make sure to practice with them every once in a while!
Now I think of it I don't think I would mess with a scope I would just put a sporter stock on it and maybe some better iron sight a good friend of mine has a real nice mauser he. Bought from his brother and law a long time ago and it is beautiful has a walnut stock hand craved and wood inlets in it the barrel and sights are original and I am thinking on some like that not sure right I have also thought about just saving up more money and getting me a weatherby vanguard or a remington 700 thanks
Ignition Override
Member
A friend has a beautiful (Vz-24) Czech Mauser, with refurbished wood.
He bought a B Square scope mount and installed it,
Because no cutting or drilling is needed. That is the whole point....
These mounts are popular partly because they require no permanent alteration, which Always kills the value of a classic military rifle.
He bought a B Square scope mount and installed it,
Because no cutting or drilling is needed. That is the whole point....
These mounts are popular partly because they require no permanent alteration, which Always kills the value of a classic military rifle.
chris in va
Member
The Mosin is one step above a 2x4. The Mauser is actually a very nicely engineered rifle, much smoother in operation.
Beak50
Member
They are cheap get both while you can.It seem's to me all the old military gun's have went way up in price the last 20 yrs. or so.I brought a new SKS paratrooper for $60.00 dollars Then and a M-44 for 50.00 Old turk Mauser 50.00 those were the day's.I still have the 44 and a Mitchell's Mauser Plus to many other's to list right now.They are all going to my son since I'm disabled and can no longer walk through the woods anylonger.
Zombiphobia
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Mine isn't. It's a Yugo M24BO. Roughest, heaviest action I've ever felt on a bolt rifle. BUT it shoots very well and packs a mighty hard whollop.
I wanted a cheap project rifle, personally, I'd go with the Mosin. I don't have one, they're cheap as dirt, and the ammunition, even factory hunting loads, are easier and cheaper to find than 8mm Mauser. That stuff has gotten tricky to find in recent years.
Anyway, that was if I wanted a CHEAP project rifle. f I wanted a GOOD project rifle that could yield a world class shooter after some work, and I reloaded my own ammo for it, I'd pick a good Mauser. Czech or real german preferred. You can rebarrel it to just about anything, re-stock it, scope it, and have a heck of a long-range target/hunting rifle.
Mine needs an action job to smooth it out, beyond that, it can't be beat. Got it from Sarco for about 120$ after shipping and FFL fee. They're prices have since gone up, though.
A lot of people are hackin on the Mosin lately. I think we are forgetting they can still be had in great condition for under 80 dollars. Tell me another functional, dependable, fairly accurate, and powerful rifle you can pay that little for! On top of that, surplus ammo is still cheaper than any large caliber rifle ammo you can buy, except ak47/sks ammo. Still, if you are looking for a scoped rifle that will be accurate, just buy a Savage Axis and be done with it.
BTW, Those little dots and marks on your keyboard are called punctuation marks. They help....
BTW, Those little dots and marks on your keyboard are called punctuation marks. They help....
Tallinar
Member
Oh puh-lease...
There's nothing wrong with the Mosins. Grab one with a good bore and you should end up with a fine shooter. I've had excellent experiences with them, and have nothing bad to say about them. Get some boxer-primed brass and do some handloading for em.
As for sporterizing and the stock and mounting a scope, if you go the Mosin route you will have to contend with the straight hold handle. You'll either need to mount the scope off-set or find a replacement bolt with an angled handle.
Either way you go, Mosin or Mauser, you will end up spending almost as much money as you would on a Savage Axis by the time you get them sporterized, and it will never be anywhere near as accurate as the Savage. I say, enjoy them for what they are.
ROGER4314
Member
I like the Mosins and have succumbed to the MN sickness many times. I also had a small pile of Mausers but managed to sell them off not because they were bad but because of the shortage of 8mm ammo. We used to buy that nasty Turk ammo for 4 cents/round but those days are gone.
If you want to tinker with a rifle, Academy has a Remington ADL with synthetic stock for $370. Mossberg has their ATR rifle with a scope at $300. The Remington 770 is also about $330 with a scope but the pressed in barrels of that model make me look at something else. The Stevens 200 is a solid value, as well. It uses all of the older Savage features like stock and trigger. That is a proven design and extremely cost effective. I gave $179 for my Stevens rifle. It offers limited calibers but it's a splendid value. Mine is in .270.
I promise that by the time you restock, get scope, rings & base on the Mosin, you'll have that much in the rifle and it will still be a Mosin...............which isn't that bad but it's not a cost effective venture. As another post suggests, the value of your modified Mosin will be one step above dirt. The Remington, Stevens, Savage or Mossberg will still retain their value.
I suggest that you look at the Remington ADL. It's a winner on all counts and VERY cost effective. The Savage is a 100% winner, too. They are hard to beat for accuracy and cost effectiveness. I have not owned the Mossberg. I have owned the Remington, Stevens and Savage rifles and think the world of them!
Of course, then you also buy the Mosin and a Mauser and enjoy them as military rifles. 4-5 MOA at 100 yards is great for them but also be aware the Mauser zeros at 300 yards so it shoots very high at 100 yards. I used to buy elevated front sights at Brownells to get a 100 yard zero. They look a bit goofy but work great.
Flash
If you want to tinker with a rifle, Academy has a Remington ADL with synthetic stock for $370. Mossberg has their ATR rifle with a scope at $300. The Remington 770 is also about $330 with a scope but the pressed in barrels of that model make me look at something else. The Stevens 200 is a solid value, as well. It uses all of the older Savage features like stock and trigger. That is a proven design and extremely cost effective. I gave $179 for my Stevens rifle. It offers limited calibers but it's a splendid value. Mine is in .270.
I promise that by the time you restock, get scope, rings & base on the Mosin, you'll have that much in the rifle and it will still be a Mosin...............which isn't that bad but it's not a cost effective venture. As another post suggests, the value of your modified Mosin will be one step above dirt. The Remington, Stevens, Savage or Mossberg will still retain their value.
I suggest that you look at the Remington ADL. It's a winner on all counts and VERY cost effective. The Savage is a 100% winner, too. They are hard to beat for accuracy and cost effectiveness. I have not owned the Mossberg. I have owned the Remington, Stevens and Savage rifles and think the world of them!
Of course, then you also buy the Mosin and a Mauser and enjoy them as military rifles. 4-5 MOA at 100 yards is great for them but also be aware the Mauser zeros at 300 yards so it shoots very high at 100 yards. I used to buy elevated front sights at Brownells to get a 100 yard zero. They look a bit goofy but work great.
Flash
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morcey2
Member
If you're just going to throw a sporter stock on it and use the iron sights, either a mosin or mauser will work, as I've said. A refurb M91/30 is $90 around here and most of them have great bores and will shoot sub 2" groups at 100 yards. A NIB M48 or an arsenal prepared 24/47 yugo will shoot just as well. Most of them are in the $200+ range, but you can find M24/47's in the $180 range if you look around. They usually have nice bright bores and also shoot really well.
Either way, if you're sticking with the iron sights, consider getting a set of Mojo sights. They're leaps and bounds ahead of the native sights on any of them, both for hunting and target shooting.
As for ammo, since you said you want to use it for hunting, the cheap surplus that's available for both of them is less than useful since it's FMJ and sometimes steel core. Domestic production 8mm is loaded to about 30-30 levels and works fine if you're shooting at sub-150 yards. Prvi Partizan is cheaper and a little better, but not much. BVAC makes some 175-grain loads that are full power and should be good for out to 400 yards +. With a good gun and the right scope.
I haven't shot much new-production 7.62x54R, but the winchester white-box stuff it supposed to be pretty good. Again, Prvi Partizan makes better loads that are relatively cheap and reloadable.
If you go with the mosin, mojo sights, and cheap sporter stock, you're still going to be in it $200+ and will still have to scrounge around a little for ammo.
For plinking etc, either one is great. 1950's era Yugo 8mm can be had for about $0.30 per round. Soviet bloc surplus 7.62x54r can be had for about $0.25, but it's steel core so some ranges won't let you shoot it.
For target shooting, the 80's Yugo M76 sniper ammo is hard to beat. Very accurate.
If you want to be able to sell the gun later, don't bother with either of them. They'll be worth more untouched than modified. Once you decide to do any non-reversible mods on them, they lose almost all of their value.
I do have to disagree w/ Ohio Gun Guy on one point. Sorta. Most of the refurb Mosins and M24/47s have very good bores and will shoot close to MOA. BUT that's if you're shooting bullets that fit the bore. The winchester production 7.62x54r that I've seen has been using .308 bullets when they should be using at least .311 since the grooves on most mosins are in the .311-313 range, even new. Prvi is loaded w/ .311 slugs and from what I've heard shoots great in mosins. The surplus available isn't anywhere sub-moa ammo, but is acceptable. Bore size is always the biggest variable w/ surplus rifles. I've got an Argentine M1909 that was originally chambered in 7.65x53 that was reamed out to 30-06, but retained the .312 bore. It doesn't shoot 150 grain spitzers worth a darn. I put some 180 grain round nose bullets in it and it shoots very, very well with them.
Matt
Either way, if you're sticking with the iron sights, consider getting a set of Mojo sights. They're leaps and bounds ahead of the native sights on any of them, both for hunting and target shooting.
As for ammo, since you said you want to use it for hunting, the cheap surplus that's available for both of them is less than useful since it's FMJ and sometimes steel core. Domestic production 8mm is loaded to about 30-30 levels and works fine if you're shooting at sub-150 yards. Prvi Partizan is cheaper and a little better, but not much. BVAC makes some 175-grain loads that are full power and should be good for out to 400 yards +. With a good gun and the right scope.
I haven't shot much new-production 7.62x54R, but the winchester white-box stuff it supposed to be pretty good. Again, Prvi Partizan makes better loads that are relatively cheap and reloadable.
If you go with the mosin, mojo sights, and cheap sporter stock, you're still going to be in it $200+ and will still have to scrounge around a little for ammo.
For plinking etc, either one is great. 1950's era Yugo 8mm can be had for about $0.30 per round. Soviet bloc surplus 7.62x54r can be had for about $0.25, but it's steel core so some ranges won't let you shoot it.
For target shooting, the 80's Yugo M76 sniper ammo is hard to beat. Very accurate.
If you want to be able to sell the gun later, don't bother with either of them. They'll be worth more untouched than modified. Once you decide to do any non-reversible mods on them, they lose almost all of their value.
I do have to disagree w/ Ohio Gun Guy on one point. Sorta. Most of the refurb Mosins and M24/47s have very good bores and will shoot close to MOA. BUT that's if you're shooting bullets that fit the bore. The winchester production 7.62x54r that I've seen has been using .308 bullets when they should be using at least .311 since the grooves on most mosins are in the .311-313 range, even new. Prvi is loaded w/ .311 slugs and from what I've heard shoots great in mosins. The surplus available isn't anywhere sub-moa ammo, but is acceptable. Bore size is always the biggest variable w/ surplus rifles. I've got an Argentine M1909 that was originally chambered in 7.65x53 that was reamed out to 30-06, but retained the .312 bore. It doesn't shoot 150 grain spitzers worth a darn. I put some 180 grain round nose bullets in it and it shoots very, very well with them.
Matt
chris in va
Member
What, besides the fact they are extremely crude? Probably the most basic, bare-bones form of a repeating bolt rifle in existence. And yes, I had one and my Russian friend has one as well.
I'll take something with a bit more engineering any day.
Tallinar
Member
Fixed that for ya.
Don't confuse simplicity with disfunctionality.
sansone
Member
mauser would be my choice without question
haha, mosins they are ugly what?...thats really the only knock you can give them. They are also generally accurate, tuff, and well built. Now I personally would chose a mauser, if i was going to leave it in military, dress. Why? cause they are prettier. Now with modifications, i dont think it really matters, the mauser has more classic lines. When stuck in a low cost aftermarket stock, they generally dont look a whole lot differant. IMNSHO
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