Mosin Nagant power: are Russians better shot or are we caliber-spoiled???

[saturno_v]

I met a nice Russian guy through work few weeks ago, gun lover and with a family tradition of hunters back home.
Soon enough we were talking about guns and calibers and this is what he told me.
In Russia, for deers they use the 7.62 X 39, the 7 mm Mauser and the 6,5 X 55 Sweden. The last two are commonly used for Caribou too. Occasionally some old Carcanos are also used for deers.
Then we started to talk about the 7,62 X 54R and things got very interesting.
This caliber is obviously very common in Russia end the Mosin action has been sporterized and used as base for several hunting rifles in the motherland.
He told me that this caliber, together with the 7,92 X 57 (the 8 mm Mauser) which is commonly found over there in sporterized Mauser actions, is even considered too powerful for Moose (unless light bullets are used).
He said that big brownies and even polar bears are put down for good with the 54R very effectively.
He recalled a hunt where a charging nasty big brown was hit by a 54R 200 gr., the bullet went all the way through leaving a fist-size exit hole breaking the hump.
The bear (his own words) literally jumped in the air at the impact.
That was shocking to me when I read some Alaskan accounts on here where big bears were soaking 375 or 338 bullets like candies....
So are we lousy shots, our dangerous bears are tougher or are we just plain magnum-maniac???
Any comments or opinions?? Where is the truth???

Thanks

 

[RNB65]

We're definitely caliber spoiled.

30-30 is all you need for deer and 7.62x39 has ballistics close to a 30-30. There's plenty of people in the US that deer hunt with 7.62x39.

As for the 7.62x54r, the ballistics on it are about midway between a .308 and a .30-06. Plenty of gun for most large animals if you hit a vital area.

Rifles chambered in magnum rounds are little more than a marketing gimmick to sell more guns. A .22LR and a .30-06 are all you need to hunt any land animal in North America.
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[azhunter12]

I personally think that big calibers are over hyped. My uncle uses .222 for deer for almost 30yrs. He also has a 30/06 but its too heavy and .222 already does the trick on the deer. I think its an American way of thinking that we need super magnum cartriges.

I forgot which month it was in but if anyone reads Outdoor Life they had a big write up about magnums. They made a point that elphants used to be killed by 7mm mauser just as good a magnums without the bone rattling recoil.

 

[jpwilly]

Penetration is what kills large animals. The proper bullet type and weight is more important than a few hundred FPS and Extra Energy. When a 30-Ought Six shoots clean through an animal what does it matter if it comes out the other end any faster or slower than some other caliber?

 

[Hoppy590]

shot placement. that meaning not only location to vital organs, but penetration to reach said organs.

 

[stubbicatt]

Karamojo Joe Bell used some pretty anemic cartridges to dispatch elephants, like the 6.5x54 or something like that. Long, round nosed, solid, bullets to the brain and they dropped like they were hit with an atom bomb.

As far as Russia having better shots, they may. For many years they were a force to contend with at the Olympics, outshooting our best often enough.

Some of the firearms produced in Russia have outstanding characteristics, which if used by someone who knows what he is about...

Even the now $69 Mosin Nagant rifles accounted for many thousand Germans, perhaps millions. You can shoot these rifles surprisingly well.

 

[1911 guy]

We're caliber spoiled.

Specifically, large caliber spoiled. I've got nothing against carrying a magnum .30 or .33 for big bears, but these animals were being killed by rifles long before even the .30-06 was around.

There are a lot of good "new" calibers, but they aren't strictly necessary.