Mosin-Nagant Rifles finally cool now?

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Try some 46 gr. Czech training ammo. All bark (loud!) not bite, like the .223. With good ear protection, she'll love shooting the 46 gr. stuff.:thumbup:
Great stuff! I still have about a 1/2 case of it. I wish I had a couple more. That round was pretty accurate. My son and daughter, when teenagers, used to shoot it at 100yd clay pigeons on the berm. I'd say they hit about 75% of the time. Or close enough to shatter them. I had them wear plugs and muffs so the noise didn't bother them. Others shooting at the range would watch them banging away with Mosins not knowing it was a light recoil training round. They thought they had iron shoulders. My daughter was 5,1 , 110 pounds.;)
 
Ha ha ha. Where does everyone get this from? It's tamer than many competing battle rifle rounds of the era. Certainly more pleasant than 30-06 or 8mm bolt guns with issue steel buttplates. If anything it was the reduced recoil round of its time.
Not really according to Chuck hawk's recoil tables. German, American, British, and Russian, main battle rounds are within 2-3 ft pounds of each other in their issued rifles 15-18 ft lbs. Mauser 8mm 196 gr is highest @18 ft lbs in an 8 lb rifle. The mosin is at 15 ft lbs in a 9lb rifle. The enfield and springfield are in between. Arisakas and carcanos are less.
 
Not really according to Chuck hawk's recoil tables. German, American, British, and Russian, main battle rounds are within 2-3 ft pounds of each other in their issued rifles 15-18 ft lbs. Mauser 8mm 196 gr is highest @18 ft lbs in an 8 lb rifle. The mosin is at 15 ft lbs in a 9lb rifle. The enfield and springfield are in between. Arisakas and carcanos are less.

So checking of the ChuckHawks table we got Mosin heavy ball at 15 and light ball at 13.1. Yes the other period military rifles were in the ball park, but seeing its 10-20% less with heavy ball and even more so with the common 150 grain light ball versus the standard US and German guns the *super kicker* label doesnt really apply.

I'd also consider plain vanilla 30-06 hunting rifles clock around 20, so once again its Mosin for the win!

Now I will readily admit the guns do have their own quirks and faults. Given the 1891 design period I think it came out fairly okay and probably was futuristic compared to arms of the generation before it.

That said, the question isn't how well it compares to a new computer designed, cnc milled rifle. It's are these now truly a respectable collector's arm.
 
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I don't know how someone could consider a mosin nagant heavy recoiling. Mabey if all you've ever shot is an AR15. All the milsurps are pussycats.
 
I really don't understand the reverence for the military mausers. They are beautifully built guns but just in terms of function I don't think they are any better to shoot or more accurate than a Mosin. The only practical advantage I really see is they had better chamberings and stripper clips work better. The Mosin is just so simple and robust. Just so little that can go wrong with it. Compared to pretty much any other repeating rifle it's just a marvel of simplicity.
 
Ha ha ha. Where does everyone get this from? It's tamer than many competing battle rifle rounds of the era. Certainly more pleasant than 30-06 or 8mm bolt guns with issue steel buttplates. If anything it was the reduced recoil round of its time.
Where did I get it from? Experience. Definitely unpleasant.

You do know that I was referencing my 91/59, a carbine, didn't you?
 
Where did I get it from? Experience. Definitely unpleasant.

You do know that I was referencing my 91/59, a carbine, didn't you?

Yes sir. I get they are loud with a good fireball using surplus, but still quite manageable recoil. All of the Mosin variants are less recall than plain old 12 gauge shotguns and most standard long action hunting rifles (-06, 7 mag, etc.).
 
I have a beat to crap M44 and a pretty nice hex receiver 1933 Tula 91/30. They have their place in my milsurp collection, but when it comes to shooting, I'll take almost any of the others. They're not junk, but are fairly crude, second only to the late war ("last ditch") Arisakas in lack of refinement. I have a lot more fun with the Carcanos. If you want an enjoyable shooter in a 30-ish caliber, the M1903, 98 Mauser, K98, M1911, K11, Arisaka T99 and other Western rifles are a better choice. If you want the sweetest shooting milsurps, it's really, really hard to beat the small ring Mausers. I love my Spanish and Argentine 7x57s, but I'd be a liar if I didn't say my favorite milsurp bolt gun is my Swedish M96. Yes, even more than my M1903.
 
Saw a young guy (late teens) at the range with his grandmother? yesterday. He had a Mosin and seemed to shoot it well. He was quite proud of it when I asked him about it. Said it was from 1944 when I asked about its age. Beautiful stock/refinish. Everything else looked proper for its age.

Maybe there’s hope for the youngsters!
 
Saw a young guy (late teens) at the range with his grandmother? yesterday. He had a Mosin and seemed to shoot it well. He was quite proud of it when I asked him about it. Said it was from 1944 when I asked about its age. Beautiful stock/refinish. Everything else looked proper for its age.

Maybe there’s hope for the youngsters!
So far, old rifles and my daughter are just about the only things I have in common with my future son-in-law. LOL So at least that's something.
 
So checking of the ChuckHawks table we got Mosin heavy ball at 15 and light ball at 13.1. Yes the other period military rifles were in the ball park, but seeing its 10-20% less with heavy ball and even more so with the common 150 grain light ball versus the standard US and German guns the *super kicker* label doesnt really apply.

I'd also consider plain vanilla 30-06 hunting rifles clock around 20, so once again its Mosin for the win!

Now I will readily admit the guns do have their own quirks and faults. Given the 1891 design period I think it came out fairly okay and probably was futuristic compared to arms of the generation before it.

That said, the question isn't how well it compares to a new computer designed, cnc milled rifle. It's are these now truly a respectable collector's arm.

Yes, they are a respectable collector's rifle. They rank at least with the Carcano, Arisaka, Yugo Mausers, and M95 Steyr Mannlichers.

One joker in the deck about Mosin's collectibility is how much Russia and other Eastern bloc countries still have and whether or not they can be imported into the U.S. If they still have millions, and those somehow make it to the market, then prices will drop.

One of the reasons for the German Mauser 98's rise in price during the 2000's was that these Mauser stockpiles vanished when the Russian and Yugo captures finally ran out. Parts values also increased due to small arms trade regulations shutting off the U.S. market. Similar effect on Garands and M1 Carbines when the CMP stocks ran out. There is also a fascination with WWII German weapons out of proportion to the rest of the collecting market.

Mosins are similar in price to Enfields (not the 1917 or P14 designs) for many of the same reasons---millions were made, they are quite functional weapons, and surplus ammo kept them cheap to use for shooters for a long time. The British .303 and the Russian 7.62x54r also have decent capabilities for sporting use (meaning some Mosins and a lot of Enfields were chopped up to make sporters). If cheap steel cased ammo dries up for the Mosin, then they will become less popular.

If you really wanted to collect Mosins, go for rarer subtypes--e.g. Dragoon rifles, ex-Dragoon rifles, hex receivers, genuine Sniper rifles, Remington or Westinghouse made Mosins, French made Mosins, WWI vintage, non-rearsenaled, Polish Mosins, etc. Learn to decrypt the arsenal markings so you can get a rarer one if the Mosins are being sold in a batch or appear on the gunshop/pawn store racks.

I suspect that the Mosin carbines and lightweight sporterized rifles are the source of the hard kicking rumor along with the straight stock-metal buttplate and its smaller surface area on the shoulder compared to other U.S., British, or German rifles. Muzzle blast on shorter barrelled carbines is also not to be discounted. I cheat when firing old military weapons and use a slip on recoil pad so I really don't find the recoil of most issue rifles very bad compared with lightweight 12 gage shotguns with slugs or buck shot.

If you really want to shoot them in competition, get a Finn Mosin or do to your Russian rifle what the Finns did to theirs. Same design but the Finns tweaked the Mosins to get the most out of them. Want to decrease their value--sporterize them.

As far as the design, it is simple and strong (see this for a rare Mosin kaboom http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/03/22/mosin-nagant-kaboom/ ). I have a 1905 receiver that has seen hard use but shows no sign of lug setback nor rust-pitting type corrosion. Gunboards has a pretty interesting thread on Soviet era metallurgy for Mosins. http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?588977-Mosin-Nagant-metallurgy

The drawbacks to the design are the long barrels on the 91/30 and its predecessor 91 models, the magazine design combined with the rimmed cartridge is problematic, the trigger as issued isn't that good, and the sights are inadequate for precision work.

As someone who accumulates and restores milsurps, I have handled quite a few designs and detail stripped them, checked them for possible failures, etc. Every design has its weak points, no rifle design is exempt from poor workmanship/materials on particular rifles, but military rifles were generally designed to go bang in really poor conditions, using suspect ammunition, and designed for production en masse. There are some designs that I would personally choose over others due to my likes or dislikes but even rifles such as the carcano and krags have their particular charms and strong points.
 
I have one Mosin, because it was a gift. Two ladies I know went in on it together and had me go to the table and do the 4473 (before phone call checks). It is a Russian M1944 I think 46 and though I shoot 03A3 and Mauser K98 rifles I think it kicks like a mule. Paper math or not.

I find the bayonet handy for standing the rifle up in soft earth like a grave marker so I do not have to lay the rifle on the ground.

Some where I have a book about the T34 tank and there is a picture of tank riders mostly armed with PPSh-41 SMGs but with a sprinkling of M1944s. One wonders if there was a special punishment for "loosing" your Mosin when a PPSh-41 became available through attrition.

My first experience with the Mosin was an M1944, actually a Chinese model (Type 53?), in 1969. The only available ammo was a partial box of ancient Winchester sporting ammo a local hardware store had. After the Remington and Eddystone guns got sold through the NRA, Winchester loaded the 7.62x54R for a couple of decades. Lots of folks "Bubba-ed" Mosin Nagants in the 1920's and 30's. There were after market sights and stocks available.

Some one a while back posted a 1930ish looking sporterized Mosin that was quite pretty and looks Manlicherish.

A lot of folks forget that the M91 was issued to US troops in the Archangel expedition. I assumed they were US made rifles, but do not know.

-kBob
 
Yes sir. I get they are loud with a good fireball using surplus, but still quite manageable recoil. All of the Mosin variants are less recall than plain old 12 gauge shotguns and most standard long action hunting rifles (-06, 7 mag, etc.).
Maybe it is just me, but I would prefer either my 721 or Garand in .30-06, recoil wise, to either my 91/59 or my .303 Jungle Carbine. As in many things in life, recoil is subjective and subject to many variables.
 
I believe you have to have the bayonette folded out if you want to hit anything. Isn’t that right?

I’ll second that they kick. My m44 In stock trim kicked harder than a 30-06 or my .270 or even the 7mm mag. With the ATi stock and hand loads it doesn’t do as much as any of those. I’m wondering if some of the surplus ammo is loaded hot or with some combination that makes them recoil.
 
Personally I don't think they are any closer to being cool than they were 10 years ago when they were dirt cheap. The rise in cost isn't due to their cool factor increasing, but rather an overall trend in milsurp prices.
I have one. Shooting 10" size groups at 100 yards isn't any cooler now than it was 10 years ago.
A 10lb trigger that breaks like a sponge isn't any cooler now than it was 10 years ago.
A safety so stiff its basically nonfunctional isn't any cooler now than it was 10 years ago
It is what it is, and served its purpose admirably. Historically it might be pretty cool, but as a functioning firearm its still near to the bottom of the barrel to me.
 
Well, in my experience the M44 was no less accurate with the toad sticker forward or back......but grouped in two different places. Main issue with shooting with the marsh mellow toaster folded was that it can pinch your support hand fingers during recoil.

Opening that bayonet always makes me think of singing....."Don't stand so close to me" A buddy back in the 60's joked that the T53 might make a good rifle for carrying on his Honda SuperChief....he joked about using it as a lance and jousting.

Motor cycle guys....jimminey. You meet the strangest people on a Honda.

-kBob
 
They are some of the worst made rifles out there, rivaled mostly by their replacements the SKS and AK for worst rifles in wide circulation. "Collecting" them is ridiculous, but then "collecting" guns in general is ridiculous. It's only slightly more so with a Mosin, but only slightly less so with a Mosin than with a super soaker.
 
I personally don't think they are poorly made, just very simplistic. The stocks look like they are made from the rejected wood used to make the boxes they put them in, but all the metal work is perfectly fine. I bought mine expecting to have a laugh at how bad it was but I adjusted to the trigger quickly and mine is very accurate and I find it easy to hit with. Its like 3 moa with brown bear junk ammo and I'm really badly nearsighted.

I do have to agree though, I can't quite understand the idea of collecting mosin nagants. I could see having a carbine and 91-30, and mabey a hex receiver one for variety if you really like them, but what does a guy do with 20 mosin nagants? o_O
 
I personally don't think they are poorly made, just very simplistic. The stocks look like they are made from the rejected wood used to make the boxes they put them in, but all the metal work is perfectly fine. I bought mine expecting to have a laugh at how bad it was but I adjusted to the trigger quickly and mine is very accurate and I find it easy to hit with. Its like 3 moa with brown bear junk ammo and I'm really badly nearsighted.

I do have to agree though, I can't quite understand the idea of collecting mosin nagants. I could see having a carbine and 91-30, and mabey a hex receiver one for variety if you really like them, but what does a guy do with 20 mosin nagants? o_O
Ask Gunny....
 
I personally don't think they are poorly made, just very simplistic. The stocks look like they are made from the rejected wood used to make the boxes they put them in, but all the metal work is perfectly fine. I bought mine expecting to have a laugh at how bad it was but I adjusted to the trigger quickly and mine is very accurate and I find it easy to hit with. Its like 3 moa with brown bear junk ammo and I'm really badly nearsighted.

I do have to agree though, I can't quite understand the idea of collecting mosin nagants. I could see having a carbine and 91-30, and mabey a hex receiver one for variety if you really like them, but what does a guy do with 20 mosin nagants? o_O
I got my best friend into collecting them, (and he's still my best friend!) and it became a bit of an obsession. He started going for every year and arsenal M44, then every year and arsenal M38, then the same for M91/30's, then got into Finns, and then M91's. He does shoot them all, though some, like the 1899 Izhevsk M91 with a sewer pipe barrel, not so much.

It all started with me going to Fleet Farm to check out the M38 carbine for a different friend at work and "see if they're worth 69 bucks". I ended up buying one. :D
 
They are some of the worst made rifles out there, rivaled mostly by their replacements the SKS and AK for worst rifles in wide circulation.

Interesting. How do you define them as worst made? If you mean ugly and utilitarian, that's ok and I think most folks would agree. But in terms of reliability and function there are very few guns around with the proven track record of the 3 you mentioned. If anything, they tend to be the benchmark again which others are measured.
 
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